Seediq Bale

I walked out of this movie after about 5 minutes and asked for my money back. No English. The website trailers show English subtitles, which is misleading. I contacted the guys at the movie FB page and asked what was up? With a budget of US$24 million, you’d think they could afford English subtitles. With a producer like John Woo on the project, you’d think they’d want international recognition.

The problem got more interesting when I asked the guys which language they used for the release at the film festival in Europe. Can you guess: English. So they have a version with English subtitles. I guess they don’t want to put two lines of subtitles on the screen (English + Chinese) because that would muck up the view?? Obviously they won’t open a theater with just English subtitles, when they won’t fill it. I guess I’ll wait for the DVD version, but a friend of mine who is fluent in Chinese said the move was a little boring (unless you are really into history).

So I talked to a friend at Taipei Times about putting out a story on this subject, but you know those people. Green Party. Not too friendly to foreigners. It’s like the way they changed “Danshui” to “Tam-sui” on the MRT line. What does that do? The Chinese is still the same! It only confuses foreigners who bought travel guides already. It doesn’t reinstate Taiwanese as the official language of the country. My wife still pronounces Danshui as Danshui in Mandarin. Tourist go home thinking Taiwan sucks, because they can’t make things simple.

Last time I went to see a movie in Spanish for a special festival -sponsored by the Mexican office here- they had the Chinese captions vertically to the left of the screen, while the English were placed horizontally at the bottom. That worked quite nicely.

Even big productions -Hero comes to mind, the Tungshan quake movie- were shown in Taiwan only in Chinese. So it is not unusual. I think Red Cliff had subtitles, but don’t quote me on that. Sometimes you have to chase around to see which theater offers the movie with English subtitles, it would have been nice even if it was only the Amabssador Changchuan or Majestic that had them, as arty theaters.

It can be done, it is not such a hassle Why not do it? Me smells politics involved, too. Have a look at the director’s speeches in Venice.

I agree that the change from Danshui to Tam[color=#000040]s[/color]ui was not a helpful one. But it wasn’t the greens that did that. It was KMT-controlled administrations.

To get back on topic: An employee at the Miramar theater in Tianmu told me they had English subtitles there for Seediq Bale. But I wouldn’t advise making a special trip up there unless we get additional confirmation.

That’s the cinema we went to. It might have been on offer, but I didn’t see it on the lists. Maybe on certain days?

I think there are sizable numbers of people in Taiwan who do not read mando who would benefit from english subtitles for this movie. Lets hope that it will be released with english subs soon then?

AS for me personally I am over here so I will have to see if they release the movie in the USA?

According to the Seediq Bale Facebook group post, they are releasing the English subtitle version soon in Taipei.

It seems like they will only show the English subtitle throughout the film, no Chinese ones. If you wish to watch the film in the cinema, grab your chance!!!

Cinema: Showtime show Thai (247, Linsen N. Rd, Taipei, Tel :02 -2537-1889)

September 23, 2200/0040
September 24, 2130/0040
25-29 September, 1120/1400

《賽德克‧巴萊(上):太陽旗》純英文字幕版場次終於公布囉!!!

上映戲院:欣欣秀泰(台北市中山區林森北路247號,電話:02-2537-1889)

場次:
9月23日,2200/0040
9月24日,2130/0040
9月25-29日,1120/1400

facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= … =1&theater

the petition worked!! w00 h000!. now take all your/our English friends to see this. this is on my own top5 all time favorite movie list. (i’m a REALLY picky guy when it comes to movies). i need to get off my butt and write a full review… will get it done by tomorrow. i give it 9.9/10 (the only tiny tiny 0.1 complain is the girls don’t get much screen time at all). everything else is superb.

ps, finley: do you plan to catch the English subtitled version? i hope you give it another shot. :slight_smile:

[quote=“ghettoracer”]the petition worked!! w00 h000!. now take all your/our English friends to see this. this is on my own top5 all time favorite movie list. (I’m a REALLY picky guy when it comes to movies). I need to get off my butt and write a full review… will get it done by tomorrow. i give it 9.9/10 (the only tiny tiny 0.1 complain is the girls don’t get much screen time at all). everything else is superb.

ps, finley: do you plan to catch the English subtitled version? I hope you give it another shot. :-)[/quote]

I’m looking forward to this movie - but I’m a tad busy and may have to wait for the DVD. Don’t worry. I will check if there are English subtitles before I buy it.

I’m also really looking forward to your review, ghettoracer, but if someone is really picky about movies, they could also try to be picky about writing reviews, thereby using capitalization when composing the write-up. :smiley:

One thing. Is this the shortened version or the full two-part series? I don’t really want to see the short version as it is supposed to be nothing but battle scenes.

Well, maybe - I’ll read your review first :wink:

It’s part one of the long version.

I’m not sure, but it MAY only be showing for a week (on a trial basis).

So get off your arses and see it. It would be kind of embarrassing (but a bit typical) if after the ‘foreign community’ petition on Facebook for subtitles, they give us subtitles and no one goes to see it. And then they probably wouldn’t bother with subtitles for the second half, and I’ll be left wondering what happened. :frowning:

So go see it, guys.

I plan on seeing the English subtitle version.

We complained about it; they listened. If we don’t go, they’ll remember us in the future as whiny ingrates.

[quote=“Chris”]I plan on seeing the English subtitle version.

We complained about it; they listened. If we don’t go, they’ll remember us in the future as whiny ingrates.[/quote]

Me too. Let’s talk about an exact date tomorrow on the way to see Mouna’s grave.

atmovies.com.tw/showtime/the … 3_a02.html

Scroll down to: 賽德克.巴萊(上)太陽旗
英語字幕

English?
yes?

But no Chinese/English together? My girl is not gonna be happy about that!

Thanks for the info though!

Saw it, not impressed. Too many long fighting scenes to be a quality movie. And the story did not flow well. Kind of left questions going from scene to scene. The soundtrack was nice, but dragged out too long to be effective. And the kids killing their teacher wasn’t really my cup of tea. If the indigenous people are as brutal as reflected in the movie, then they were just as bad as the japanese during the war years. I don’t think it was accurate in that portrayal.

And everyone wearing matching clothes with cute little scarves around their neck?! Come on!!!

It is essentially another slash, fight, kill, blood and guts movie with no real main point other than hunting grounds are important for us and our ancestors, which I can’t really come with a metaphor to which it could be directly connected other than heaven and afterlife but even then there is no joy or point.

Cape #7, Help Me Eros, were both more intriguing movies.

Yeah, that bit got to me, too. Shades of the Cultural Revolution, and it was that particular moment that suggested to me that Aboriginal Culture was, well, not very cultured.

[quote=“tango42”]Saw it, not impressed. Too many long fighting scenes to be a quality movie. And the story did not flow well. Kind of left questions going from scene to scene. The soundtrack was nice, but dragged out too long to be effective. And the kids killing their teacher wasn’t really my cup of tea. If the indigenous people are as brutal as reflected in the movie, then they were just as bad as the japanese during the war years. I don’t think it was accurate in that portrayal.

And everyone wearing matching clothes with cute little scarves around their neck?! Come on!!!

It is essentially another slash, fight, kill, blood and guts movie with no real main point other than hunting grounds are important for us and our ancestors, which I can’t really come with a metaphor to which it could be directly connected other than heaven and afterlife but even then there is no joy or point.

Cape #7, Help Me Eros, were both more intriguing movies.[/quote]

My girlfriend has seen it and she recommends me to watch it. She said that at school in Taiwan, they study about the aboriginal culture and what the Japanese have done to the locals while taking over the island. Though she doesn’t like war movies because she is quite scared of all the killing, she really enjoyed the film. For her, it’s a well-made, very touching film and it truly reflects the history of Taiwan. Everything makes sense for her since she has learned or read about the history. She suggested you guys who intend to watch Seediq Bale to google and read a bit about ‘‘headhunting’’, ‘‘Taiwanese Aborigines’’, “Wushe Incident”, ‘‘history of Taiwan’’ and the ‘‘Japanese Colonial Era’’, or you can even ask a Taiwanese friend of yours to explain about the history, so you can have some background knowledge before watching the film; otherwise it might just turn out to be another ‘‘barbarian’’ film, which is full of cruel killing. My personal opinion is when you watch this film, try to enjoy it from a neutral perspective of view. After all, what makes the world colorful and interesting is the diversity, isn’t it? Enjoy the film folks!

[quote=“Shearersheed”][quote=“tango42”]Saw it, not impressed. Too many long fighting scenes to be a quality movie. And the story did not flow well. Kind of left questions going from scene to scene. The soundtrack was nice, but dragged out too long to be effective. And the kids killing their teacher wasn’t really my cup of tea. If the indigenous people are as brutal as reflected in the movie, then they were just as bad as the japanese during the war years. I don’t think it was accurate in that portrayal.

And everyone wearing matching clothes with cute little scarves around their neck?! Come on!!!

It is essentially another slash, fight, kill, blood and guts movie with no real main point other than hunting grounds are important for us and our ancestors, which I can’t really come with a metaphor to which it could be directly connected other than heaven and afterlife but even then there is no joy or point.

Cape #7, Help Me Eros, were both more intriguing movies.[/quote]

My girlfriend has seen it and she recommends me to watch it. She said that at school in Taiwan, they study about the aboriginal culture and what the Japanese have done to the locals while taking over the island. Though she doesn’t like war movies because she is quite scared of all the killing, she really enjoyed the film. For her, it’s a well-made, very touching film and it truly reflects the history of Taiwan. Everything makes sense for her since she has learned or read about the history. She suggested you guys who intend to watch Seediq Bale to google and read a bit about ‘‘headhunting’’, ‘‘Taiwanese Aborigines’’, “Wushe Incident”, ‘‘history of Taiwan’’ and the ‘‘Japanese Colonial Era’’, or you can even ask a Taiwanese friend of yours to explain about the history, so you can have some background knowledge before watching the film; otherwise it might just turn out to be another ‘‘barbarian’’ film, which is full of cruel killing. My personal opinion is when you watch this film, try to enjoy it from a neutral perspective of view. After all, what makes the world colorful and interesting is the diversity, isn’t it? Enjoy the film folks![/quote]
I agree. I think the movie, while well-made, does expect you to know the history to a certain degree in order to fully appreciate it. Just do a quick Wikipedia search on the relevant topics and you should be good to go :slight_smile:

Also, the sentiment expressed by the OP is exactly how the Japanese saw the aborigines when they first took over Taiwan (or when European settlers first discovered the Americas). Cultures are inherently different; you can’t simply judge one culture using another’s standards. Even if we don’t understand Seediq Bale culture, at least try to put yourself in their shoes and try to sympathize with their plight. If anyone has ever been a minority race or oppressed by a foreign culture, you would be able to relate to the film a lot more. If you haven’t, well, think of it this way: foreigners are a very small minority in Taiwan. But despite all the anti-foreigner crap you’ve put up with over the years, people are generally nice to you, respectful of your culture, and they certainly don’t routinely beat you or your children simply for being a foreigner. If they did, maybe you’d want to kill a school teacher too after a few years :stuck_out_tongue:

All in all, I’d say it’s a great film that’s definitely worth watching. I had the misfortune of being surprised by the lack of English subtitles, but I was able to understand most of the film just based on the visual and audio depictions alone. I’m still going to see it again with English subtitles when it becomes available though.

I disagree. Cultural relativism might be a good tool for anthropological study, but I believe it is possible to say one culture is inherently “better” than another (as long as you’re talking about some reasonably well-defined aspect, obviously). Referring specifically to the incident that tango42 mentions, any culture that encourages its children to murder is pretty much doomed. Pity the Seediq didn’t have a chance to read E.O.Wilson, or they might have understood the reasons why an honour code that spares non-combatants is a crucial tool of self-preservation. The Japanese considered the Seediq barbarians because they were barbarians - at least if the movie was accurate (which, possibly, it wasn’t - to me it lacked depth, subtlety and detail). The Allied Powers considered the Japanese barbarians, and treated them accordingly, for the exact same reason.

This isn’t specifically a modern, “western” idea - it evolved independently, in stages, in different times and at different places. The reason it occurred is that warring powers realised without agreed limits on violence, man’s capacity for cruelty is limitless, and that the repercussions can linger for centuries (look at the Chinese - still carrying a huge pile of chips on their shoulders from wars fought between ancestors and grandparents long since dead and gone). They also understood that, if they happened to find themselves the losers, and had fought dishonourably, they would most likely be exterminated - wiped off the face of their earth, as a race. That is, of course, precisely what happened to the Seediq and to many other cultures long since buried under the sands of time. This is not to suggest, of course, that the Japanese were much “better” than the Seediq, or that the Spaniards any better than the Aztec, or the English any better than (some tribes of) native Americans - but in each of those cases, the invading armies showed little respect for native lives because the natives themselves had little respect for their own.

As for the situation: well, yes, there are always some who think it’s better to kill and die than to make the best of a bad situation (the mass suicide in Part II might be ‘touching’ to some, but to me is simply tragically stupid: with no women and children, the genes of the tribe are lost forever). Again, a parallel with the Japanese situation (at the end of WW2) is maybe appropriate. Japanese culture at the time was, in a word, fucked-up. They had been slaughtered en masse, humiliated, and finally occupied by a very alien culture (i.e., the USA). Their country had been devastated. They could have continued a guerilla war of attrition, but instead they decided the most prudent option for survival was to bide their time - and perhaps to modify some aspects of their culture that had got them into that situation in the first place. That worked out pretty well for all concerned.