I’ve just been reading a couple of articles about Linux and the challenges it faces in general desktop acceptance. Personally I’ve tried Linux a few times - Knoppix, Red Hat, Debian, and Linspire - but found nothing that made it worth the effort of learning the new stuff involved, losing a few of my most commonly used programs, and all the hassle involved in installing new programs. But I keep considering making the move again, regardless. So all you Linux users and junkies here, sell me on it - what do I get out of switching to Linux? Bear in mind, I don’t do programming or dev work or any of that stuff, I don’t geek about under the hood, I’m just an ordinary desktop user. What can I get out of Linux that I can’t get from Windows?
What power of Linux are follow:
- Server
- Free
- powerful for dealing with multitasking
Although Linux has X-Window, but I think it is still weak. If you are a Developer or person loving to try, it is a nice toy to play.
But if you just a desktop user and haven’t any experience about Linux or unix-like OS, I don’t think it 's good idea to do anything important ON Linux platform.
I’m not a junkie or a user (yet), but I think I can answer your question.
NOTHING! 
Except for maybe feeling like your giving Bill the ol’ :upyours: .
My interest in it lyes in it’s “opensourceness”, it’s ability to function as a powerful and stable (web) server, to geek out with it, and give Bill the ol’ :upyours: of course 
.
I’m actually real happy with the way I have my Windows box setup right now. I can’t think of any benefit I’d get from switching (as a desktop user). Useless you have a working knowledge to start with, switching would just be more problems (if you have a working knowledge of it, you probably already switched).
What one needs to know to keep Windows (XP) working smoothly is a lot less than any Linux distro (I’m assuming). If it aint broke don’t fix it I say. Maybe I’ll have more to say about this after running Linux for a while…
I’ve been using Linux exclusively for almost two years now… so for me the question is “what can I get out of Windows that I can’t get from Linux?” 
.
If you’re “just an ordinary desktop user”, you should be looking into desktop-oriented distributions - of the ones you mentioned, I think only Linspire qualifies as such, and you have to pay for it.
For stuff like browsing, email, music, photos etc., I think some distributions are perfectly usable “out of the box”. I’ve been using Suse for the last few months (almost one year), and it’s one of the most user-friendly systems out there. With the last version (9.2), I didn’t really have to “tweak” anything. It “just works”. No driver problems, no network settings, no nothing. I plug the digital camera - the photo album pops up, I stick in a blank CD - the CD-writer software pops up, etc.
One of the things I like in Linux is that I usually don’t have to hunt for software - the installation CDs come with thousands of programs (sure, you don’t need most of them), and most major distributions have huge software repositories where you can find almost everything you need, and install with a few clicks. The old “dependency-hell” is long gone, at least for the distributions that I have tried lately - they all have some kind of easy-to-use package management.
Obviously, you don’t need anti-virus or anti-spyware software; I’d say you don’t even need a firewall… although it’s not a bad idea to have one, and most distributions activate it by default.
And… there are some silly little things that you can’t find in Windows, or that are easier to use in Linux:
- All kinds of “applets” that you can add to the taskbar/sidebar - like a news ticker, weather report, dictionary, audio player controls etc;
- Multiple desktops - if you use lots of programs at the same time, it’s easier to keep them organized;
- The audio player finds the songs’ lyrics on the Internet, displays your listening statistics, etc;
- You can maximize a window horizontally by right-clicking the maximize button, and vertically by middle-clicking;
- Copy & Paste using the mouse (select to copy, middle click to paste);
- … and other stuff like this .
Like I said, silly little things that can make your life a little easier. Sure, you can have some of these in Windows too, but with a lot more hassle.
When you get used to Linux on the desktop, sometimes Windows seems a little retarded.
Sure, Linux is still far from perfect… but when I find something I don’t like about it, I usually send a bug report or a feature request to the program’s author or to the distribution’s maintainer. After all, that’s how Linux was built, and I’m happy to contribute any way I can. It won’t get better without user feedback.
Some of the desktop distributions I was most impressed with are Suse, Mandrake and PCLinuxOS - you can read the reviews, and give them a try.
PS: If I sound like an idiot, that’s because English is not my native language :p.
I’ve used Linux for a few years. I currently have 4 computers (2 linux, 2 windows). The Windows machines are used for games and production eviroments that need Windows. Plus a lot of the software I run on the machines are Open Source software. I can run WINE to play games but that is not fully there yet. CD/DVD buring is just better on Windows but since Nero announced Linux software, that Windows advantage is going away really soon. I have two Linux boxes that run MYTHTV.
Linux is useful if you have basic needs. I use Redhat Fedora and use the KDE enviroment. The install is pretty easy with older equipment. Linux does not work well with new equipment since driver development is a bit slower than Windows. Although some companies have seen the light and have improved their Linux support. Programs like Firefox, Trillian, Gaim, Thunderbird and Openoffice.org take care of basic uses like browsing, IM, mail, and office documents. You can try these programs on Windows also. Updating/installing Linux programs is easier these days with built in tools from Red Hat and open source tools like Apt-get and Yum. I like using Linux because it doesn’t crash as often as Windows XP does. I usually need to reboot my XP box every week while the Linux box is rebooted once every few months then the harddrive is full and it causes some problems. Since my non-gaming software is open source, I am only attached to Windows for games.
The major advantage for Linux right now is the lack of virus and trojans. That might change in the future with the increase popularity of Linux. Most trojans and viruses occur on Windows just because MS made it easier for viruses and trojans to exist. Linux also allows a bit more control/customization but that takes a bit of tinkering. You should see what type of programs you will be using and decide if Linux is a good fit for you.
Mark
I think I’ve been sold.
If all I’ve got’s basic needs, why would I want to go through the hassle of changing to an entirely new OS?
So that’s yet another advantage of Linux gone.
Which seems to put it on an equal level with Windows, rather than being an advantage.
But if, like me, you turn the thing off most nights (mostly just because the noise pisses me off, and my case is so small the thing’d probably burn out twice as quick otherwise), that makes no difference either.
Which, with the simple installation of an anti-virus program, like AVG, and a little common sense e-mail-wise, is a non-issue.
Which, if you don’t code at all - like me - means pretty much zero.
So basically from all the comments so far, there is nothing to attract the average desktop user to Linux from Windows, right? If you’re starting from scratch, I can see the issue being different, but for someone already set up and using Windows, there doesn’t seem to be much to encourage a switch.
Which, with the simple installation of an anti-virus program, like AVG, and a little common sense e-mail-wise, is a non-issue.
[/quote]
For me, who doesn’t play games and who has a crappy OEM Chinese Windows 98 it might make sense. I bought the English Norton anti-virus but it just slows down the system and hang up on the start-up. I disable it until Windows starts and then turn on the anti virus, but even at that it usually hang one or two times and then I have to hit ctrl-alt-del. I just don’t want to buy Windows anything anymore. I just want to download porn.
If you don’t do programming, and don’t want to sacrifice the convenience of use you’ve developed using Windows for years and years…then there’s no reason for you to switch to any version of desktop Linux at all. Maybe if you’ve been complaining about Windows for a decade you’d have the motivation to find an alternative OS, but it doesn’t sound like you do. Why you did it so many times in the past, I have no idea. It’s not for the average desktop user, at least not yet, so the different/better things that come with using Linux would be of no use to you. If you just want to test out open source software, use the Windows versions of Mozilla and Firefox.
Oh don’t get me wrong, I’ve bitched and moaned about Windows for years, but each time I’ve bitten the bullet and tried Linux, I’ve found it was just a whole bunch of new pains in the ass. I also do enjoy geeking out a bit and playing with new things - I was running the Litestep shell for a year or so, until eventually something went fruity with my computer and I ended up back on Explorer. I wouldn’t mind sacrificing the convenience of the habits I’ve developed with Windows, but only as long as I could be sure that the hassle of learning new habits for the new OS would actually be worth the effort. At the moment it seems like I’d end up learning a whole new set of commands and concepts, only to end up exactly where I am now.
I will not pretend to say that Linux, BSD, MAC OS, Windows, anything will solve all the issues people have with computers, but here are a few points to think about.
Just to let you know my background, I having been playing Unix, Linux, BSD, for four years, have been a user of Solaris machines for 10 years, and at home I have a gaming machine and a work laptop with XP Professional, personal laptop with Open BSD, old Pentium III working as a firewall and IDS with OpenBSD, my children
You will feel more like in Taiwan
Disadvantages:
Openoffice (Chabuduo)
Broken USB drivers (Mei BanFa)
Support Attitude (Get out if you don’t like it)
Advantages:
Configurability, e.g. easier to get the (software) firewalls to do what YOU
want (Flexibility)
Updates: You don’t have to wait 1000 manhours of lawyers working before a
fix comes out (Service)
Personally the best features is that you don’t have to restart and/or logout
to install programs. It is an added security in not having to run as a priviliged user all the time which many windoze programs.
Also it is much easier to configure the desktop to have many workspaces and switch between tasks, do things in the background etc, set priorities and so on.
If all I’ve got’s basic needs, why would I want to go through the hassle of changing to an entirely new OS?[/quote]
because like any Windows OS, you will eventually need to reinstall just to make it operate in a useful capacity. I’ve reinstall XP on my computers at least 3 times in the last 6 months. With Linux, you can just install it once and just leave it alone.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]
So that’s yet another advantage of Linux gone.[/quote]
The average user does not switch OS because they are used to a certain interface and don’t want to change. These open source software running on Windows can be seen as the first step in getting users used to another interface and make it easier to switch to Linux.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]
Which seems to put it on an equal level with Windows, rather than being an advantage.[/quote]
actutally the linux tools work a bit better in the software installation part. The Linux tools would actually find the necessary supporting software to install the software.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]
Which, with the simple installation of an anti-virus program, like AVG, and a little common sense e-mail-wise, is a non-issue.[/quote]
Like someone else has said, it just bloats the OS. Also you have to spend money each year for the Anti-virus software.
[quote=“Tetsuo”]
So basically from all the comments so far, there is nothing to attract the average desktop user to Linux from Windows, right? If you’re starting from scratch, I can see the issue being different, but for someone already set up and using Windows, there doesn’t seem to be much to encourage a switch.[/quote]
If you are used to Windows, then stick to it. Most users are used to a certain system and just want things to operate the same way. The programmers of Linux would like it to be more user friendly but not to the point of the bloat and security holes of Windows. People switch to Linux because they want to. People use Windows because they have no other choice. If OSX can be used on the x86 machines, there would be more people switching to OSX.
Mark
Linux is free, thats a pretty strong motivation compared to paying $100+ USD.
I used fedora core 3 rite now and luv it, its a dual boot system so load up windows for gaming and other stuff.
I like windows XP, but having virus software, spyware software and firewall software all running concurrently is bloating my machine.
If all I’ve got’s basic needs, why would I want to go through the hassle of changing to an entirely new OS?[/quote]
because like any Windows OS, you will eventually need to reinstall just to make it operate in a useful capacity. I’ve reinstall XP on my computers at least 3 times in the last 6 months. With Linux, you can just install it once and just leave it alone.[/quote]In the two years I’ve had an XP machine, I’ve never had to reinstall it.
[quote=“markshih”][quote=“Tetsuo”]
Which, with the simple installation of an anti-virus program, like AVG, and a little common sense e-mail-wise, is a non-issue.[/quote]
Like someone else has said, it just bloats the OS. Also you have to spend money each year for the Anti-virus software.[/quote]How much does one have to pay for AVG, Tetsuo?
Hey there,
I doubt you’ll gain a lot from using Linux. While I love the philosophy of open-source, of a science of man, meant to be shared with everyone. Technology, teche, technique, as of living, has a long history since the Greeks. It’s usually only philosophers who speak of the idea of techne in such ways.
As for linux, it would bring you away from Microsoft. If you are seriously in technology, you know how unfair they have been. They are hurting the industry. Technology will someday change the world in ways yet unseen. Ethics, ethics before technology, or even ontology, will become more important than ever. If it does not, we will not survive.
Bill Gates has even said computers are still far too complex. Someday they will be much easier. But is Microsoft getting there? I don’t see it. Few companies can design interfaces.
Enterprise, business software is even more complex. Imagine sales, accounting, or big hardware networks in large companies. It’s a mess. Even worse than the necessary 2 inch thick books for Microsoft Word. All software, from the bottom to the top is way to hard. Give us half a decade and then we’ll be gettin’ somewhere.
Apple is probably the only company that can, that can make things easy to use and intuitive. They understand psychology; they understand people. Are they even close to where computers need to be? Of course not. But they are the only ones heading in the right way.
Bill Joy, maybe the pioneer of unix, of what linux is now doing, what was done 20 years ago, the person who is called the 2nd smartest person in Silicon Valley, after Bill Gates who doesn’t even live there, has said OS X is the best operating system in the world. He has said of iLife, their digital media suite (pictures, movies, making DVDs, music), that all programmers anywhere in the software industry, can learn a lot from iLife.
How is interface design, ease of use, and above all, an understanding of how people work, present in Linux? You have dozens, hundreds, perhaps more people asking for features for new products. Does real innovation and break throughs come from commonality? Is it not the Einsteins, the children of our times, who have not been clouded by common thought, the ones who come up with new ideas? That is not Linux.
I would suggest you try OS X. It is different, of course it is. But how can one really criticize something without knowing it very well. I’ve used PCs for 20+ years, as a kid with video games and simple programs. I’ve used Windows since the late 80’s. I’ve even administered them long enough. I’ve done a decent amount with Unix. I like it but it is not the future. I’ve used OS X for over 3 years. I will never use anything else. Perhaps there will be another company many decades from now. Perhaps within the next century Microsoft will change. For now, Apple is leading innovation. Many many very smart and influential people in technology believe this.
Take a look at
Take a look at Mac OS X Tiger, which is supposed to come out April 15. It’s been confirmed in eWeek. That is just a taste of how things will be.
How does Apple gain such a fanatical following? Do you ever see that with Microsoft? You see it with companies with Brands: Nike, Ferrari, Harley Davidson, things that have character, things that have design.
If you want to read a bit more, try reading Walter Mossberg’s columns in the Wall Street Journal. He is one of the few technology writers that cares about how easy and comfortable things are for people. He really likes Macs.
Gary
Children and geniuses know that there is no bridge, only the water that lets itself be crossed. - Ren
That’s one passionate Mac dude… And I’m a closet Mac guy too. Mac SE and Turbo Pascal and the Mac II fx sigh But this is a Linux thread Gary.
Is this not a thread about computing? I apologize. But I see everything as micro-physical movements, chaos if you like. If we don’t bring back ethics into technology, today, right now, someday it will be too late.
Words that Bertrand Russell have said are ever more valid today:
The present moment is the most important and most crucial that has ever confronted mankind. Upon our collective wisdom during the next twenty years depends the question whether mankind shall be plunged into unparalleled disaster, or shall achieve a new level of happiness, security, well-being, and intelligence. I do not know which mankind will choose. There is grave reason for fear, but there is enough possibility of a good solution to make hope not irrational. And it is on this hope that we must act.
or Carl Jung.
So much is at stake and so much depends on the psychological consitution of modern man. Is he capable of resisting the temptation to use his power for the purpose of staging a world conflagration? Is he conscious of the path he is treading, and what the conclusions are that must be drawn from the present world situation and his own psychic situation? Does he know that he is on the point of losing the life-preserving myth of the inner man which Christianity has treasured up for him? Does he realize what lies in store should this catastrophe ever befall him? Does he realize what lies in store should this catastrophe ever befall him? Is he even capable of realizing that this would in fact be a catastrophe? And finally, does the individual know that he is the makeweight that tips the scales?
Oh God, I knew a preacher of the Church of Apple was bound to make his way in here eventually.
Gary - read my post and thread title: I don’t care about Apple. I’m using a PC. I might be considering switching OSes, but I’m not buying a whole new computer. If you’ve got nothing but overzealous preaching to add, piss off and don’t waste my time please.
As you wish.
If I am overzealous for something, it is less Apple, than for all of technology. I am overzealous about the future of the human race.
If there is one thing I could beg you to consider, is technologies influence upon our species. More people are writing such books. One of the founders of Wired is about to do one.
Or read about very very smart people who believe that within the next 20 years, we will have a 50 percent change of being destroyed by technology. Of the human race ending.
Is that not important? Whatever path you choose, I hope you at least choose humankind.
Of course I really a lot of philosophy. And many other things. So I care about all the little movements happening in this world, and where they will lead us. The change happening all over the world, at least for the last hundred years and now is really something to be afraid of.