Ok, it is owned by one of them. 
But what good does it do? We could go for thirty more pages if you want.
I mean sometimes I get the impression that they want to make this site a going concern with advertising and all that stuff and then sometimes I get the impression that they just want to let it be just what it always has been, which is good either way.[/quote]
If itâs good either way, then remind me again what youâre going on about?
And if doesnât do any good, why drag it out this long to begin with?
At this point, Iâm not even sure you yourself know what âitâ is, anyway.
You claim itâs âgood old boysâ discouraging others from posting. I say itâs âgood old animal rights boysâ discouraging others from posting as well â and probably dozens of other âgood oldâ groups in isolated spots on the boards. Heck, we probably donât get many longterm grammar-translation advocates in Learning Chinese, for that matter. Maybe someone could explain why itâs okay for the animal folks to be that way when itâs not even their site, while Maoman canât (theoretically, because I donât see him being very unwelcoming to anyone who behaves remotely reasonably on a consistent basis) speak his mind on his own site?[/quote]
Iâm not âgoing onâ about anything except why this thread is going on. Iâm not dragging anything out. And I went to a an EST meeting once, so all I know is that if I want to get âitâ then I have to pay a lot of money. And I havenât made the good old boys network claim either. So woman, if you want to keep up with us good old boys, you better get your whingers straight.
Now I just think itâs about whoâs going to get in the last word.
Iâve given up posting here a couple of times because the site didnât seem to be a place that I felt I fitted in any more. Itâs evolved into something other than what it was when I discovered it five years ago.
Or maybe Iâve changed? I certainly get less information from it than before, and get pretty tetchy at the âpoor qualityâ of responses when I do ask questions.
But it is what it is, and insisting that it be what I want it to be is really a waste of time. Just taking a break, instead of taking it seriously, works wonders.
As for this âprofessionalismâ thing, well⌠doesnât âprofessionalâ imply that this is what you do for a living? That would be fair enough if the site was following some grand plan, but it isnât. Intelligent Design may happen in other online worlds but in this one weâre stuck with stupid old evolution, which means that those organisms which donât evolve get left behind. Our âGodâ never claimed to be infallible, heâs just some guy (actually a holy trinity) who was tinkering with the âbuild your own worldâ set he got for Christmas and ended up being responsible for a âcommunityâ.
The people who run this site are still figuring out how to make it work. The people who participate in it are doing the same thing, some of them. Sometimes the participants get elevated to demi-godhood for a while and get to bugger about with the omniscope, smiting machine, and so forth. And sometimes they turn in, or have to be relieved of, their wings, halos and magic hammers. Itâs all part of the great experiment, and nobody involved really knows whatâs going to result from it all.
Like it or not, youâre dealing with a bunch of amateur deities with good intentions who are trying to learn the business of infallibility while dispensing divine justice with one hand, regulating the cosmic harmony that holds the space/time fabric together with the other, and trying to balance the accounts with a third - all this while dancing a complex jig on the head of a pin. Can you blame them for getting a bit crotchety sometimes?
If I was a God with so few believers I would be sending floods and plagues to scour the sinners from the face of my creation. Honestly, this place is like Soddom and Gomorrah sometimes. It needs a good scourging. Either that or give up and try something else - maybe a nice spheroid world next time? Anyone strays too far from the top and they would slide down and fall off at the equator.
[quote=âLorettaâ]Iâve given up posting here a couple of times because the site didnât seem to be a place that I felt I fitted in any more. Itâs evolved into something other than what it was when I discovered it five years ago.
Or maybe Iâve changed? [/quote]
Well, you were a man back then. 
A man who could, as I recall.
But now that you are a lady, I hope you wonât take umbrage if I disagree with your well written, if not well-thought out metaphor. This is NOT AN ATTACK ON YOUR FEMININITY!!!
On the one hand you claim we are behelden to the selective process of evolution, yet you mix in these creator types into your analogy. As I attempted to argue somewhere in one of these threads (lovely splitting by the way, a fine example of the hard work the mods do do*), evolution is what we should be doing, I agree wholeheartedly that we should let the law of the jungle prevail. Itâs when man tried to create laws that we whacked ourselves (our earthly selves, not our flobeings) into such a quagmire. If you want the flob to be microcosmically representative of our current model of civilization as a whole, you canât have it both ways. Either Mao and The Mods are tinkering with nature or we let nature decide who stays and who goes.
I say mods should have the omniscopey thingy, but for order only: This thread being an excellent example of the house cleaning that needs to be done. Give the smiter kajingeymablooey up for lent. Give the law part a rest. If I or anyone crosses the line, let the community have at them (me). We are quite capable of defending ourselves. We donât need an omniscient presence coddling our sensitive ears.
And no. I donât think Mao or anyone involved in the day to day need be more professional.
-
He said do do!
Yes, quite. Iâm just a little confused these days.
We started out with a bit of intelligent design, but evolution is happening faster than the gods can keep up. The rules are all about trying to prevent nature taking its course, evolution is all about winning. If your god is following some master plan then he has to interfere to keep things on track, but if heâs just playing then he might as well sit back and watch the animals tear each other apart as they compete for resources.
On the other hand, what if youâre one of the animals involved in the struggle? Some animals can thrive, some can survive, some remember to teleport out, if their transporters are working properly, and some get mauled on a regular basis. I imagine that if I was getting spanked every time I tried to participate then I wouldnât think much of the laws of the jungle.
Civilisation functions because we recognise that we all benefit in the long run if we donât murder, rape and rob our way through life. We impose rules on ourselves other than âthe strong shall prey on the weakâ. We donât beat up the little retarded kid just cos he canât play to the same level as we can. And we donât intimidate the ladies, which I believe is where this conversation started.
In the old days, the law of the jungle seemed to work quite well and there were more female forumosans than today - both in absolute terms and as a percentage of the total. These days we may have reached a point where one type of poster has become so dominant that there isnât room for less competitive types.
The response from above is more rules, in an effort to regulate the jungle, but that just leads to arguments about interpretations and enforcement. If the site were more civilised then we could have looser rules, and play by them. A kind of Kipling-esque jungle where itâs understood that people get eaten but there is order. Today we seem to have the notion that the rules are âwhatever you can get away withâ and some people deal with it by demanding more rules and more enforcement. I donât think that would work.
Iâm trying to avoid commenting on the OP, because his whole point of view rests on an assumption about what the siteâs purpose is - namely that itâs a community in the sense that any group of people choosing to share the same location and interact amicably are a community. But is that assumption fair? The holy trinity donât maintain this site purely for the sake of this community, so what is the real purpose?
You canât discuss how someone should behave until youâre clear about what their role is. Benevolent dictator? Detached observer? Experimenter? Philanthropist? Or is it all about distributing the worm_maoman virus in order to sell porn to unsuspecting fishwives in Russia? Clear that up and then you can discuss how the site should be run.
If this post is even more confused than the earlier one, itâs because The Mighty Toe is poking fun at my sexuality. Iâm going to ask that he be banned for that. Fairâs fair! :raspberry:
Can you elaborate? Iâm intrigued by this.
The question was, is one group of people (women) being put off from posting by the response they get when they do post. The answer seems to be âyesâ.
The same thing has happened in the animal rights debate, back when people were talking about CNR. Iâve had PMs from others whose idea after posting a few times was like my own: âLet them have the playground. Not worth bothering anymore.â The whole âyouâre an idiot if you donât agree with usâ tone had the same effect as the gratuitous references to body parts and biological functions thing does in other places â it puts a group of people off posting. I donât think it drove them off the site as a whole in the case Iâm mentioning â but the principle is the same.
At least the animal rights folks were only being over-enthusiastic or not always expressing themselves in the best way in pushing the idea they believe is right. Thereâs no such defense for the gratuitous sexual reference folks.
[quote=âironladyâ]The question was, is one group of people (women) being put off from posting by the response they get when they do post. The answer seems to be âyesâ.
The same thing has happened in the animal rights debate, back when people were talking about CNR. Iâve had PMs from others whose idea after posting a few times was like my own: âLet them have the playground. Not worth bothering anymore.â The whole âyouâre an idiot if you donât agree with usâ tone had the same effect as the gratuitous references to body parts and biological functions thing does in other places â it puts a group of people off posting. I donât think it drove them off the site as a whole in the case Iâm mentioning â but the principle is the same.
At least the animal rights folks were only being over-enthusiastic or not always expressing themselves in the best way in pushing the idea they believe is right. Thereâs no such defense for the gratuitous sexual reference folks.[/quote]
I donât remember calling anyone an idiot. I do remember putting together what I thought was a very cohesive argument, though. Iâm not sure why you would choose to feel insulted. 
One thing I know is that you guys will never ever get any feedback from me. never never never never in a million billion years.
[quote=âDr. McCoyâ]never never never never in a million billion years.[/quote]Thatâs a double-double negative. Iâm not sure if it means lots and lots of feedback, really, really none at all, or only when posting from Tim Hortonâs.
Thatâs my fault. I started calling it the flob⌠Dunno why. Partly cos Iâm wordy. Partly cos Iâm nerdy. Partly cos Iâm moody.
Hey, lets keep some persective here. This is a web forum. Itâs not life or death.
The guyâs not here as a Doctor or engineer or some other role that riskâs life.
He has a real life and a real family and a real job that he needs to take care of. If he screws up a little bit on this site, itâs not the end of the world. Take care of your real like first, then do your best here.
Yesterday, I travelled by train, with my family, for 12 hours round trip, only to go to the Forumosa Christmas Party, and return.
Last night, I met the person in question for only the second time. I also met his wife and young child. After doing so, I can totally forgive (like I need too anyway?) any shortcomings caused on this site due to his lack of attention.
I donât know alot of you posterâs on this site, and sometimes when I read your posts, I might think, what an asshole!
I am from a pretty isolated part of the island,(Taidong) and I donât get to go out much to meet lotâs of you.
There are only a few posters from my part of this island, and I know them well.
I can tell you that with one poster in particular, if I had only his posts to judge him by, I would not think too much of him.
I can hardly agree with most of his posts. But IRL, I can find alot of common ground with him, and I do enjoy his friendship.
In Taidong, it is rare to see fellow foreingers, so we do usually say hello or some form of greeting.
Yesterday, as we got off the train, I heard my son say, âDaddy, look weigourenâ, I was motified. I hate it when locals do that to me, and to here it from my son was a bit much. So I said to my son, making sure they could hear me. âHow do you know? Because it takes one to know one?â, and then I looked back at the people and smiled and said Hello.
Letâs face it, our culture is pretty different from the one that we find ourselves living in.
Letâs try to give each other the benefit of the doubt. And keep in mind that if you take offense to oneâs post, that if you were having a beer with that person, Your differences might be easier to overlook.
I highly recommend, no matter the hassle involved, going to a happy hour or other event.
And also try to start some in your area.
And keep in mind, not all of us have such relatively easy access to western shopping, food, and other people. No matter how bad you got it, you could find someone worse off.
And to anyone that I may have pissed off in the last few years, Cheers, and if we were sharing a drink, we would probably be friends!
Thanks to my Forumosa family for a great Christmas Party. I havenât been to one in seven years.
Best Regards
Bob
Merry Christmas, Bob.
Ditto! And a bump for classic post.
Personally I donât think the mod squad do enough pimping. Now hereâs a chap thatâs done it all rather nicely for you. Spirit of 'mosa right in that manâs spectacularly long train adventure. :bravo:
HG
Thatâs a really nice post, bobl, and Iâm glad to hear from you.
So there you have it folks, finally someone who clearly says that this place can be a bit more than just a bulletin board. Someone who considers this place family and who actually made the leap from the cyberspace to real life with nothing but a good experience to share. Itâs good to hear in this thread, and thereâs plenty more of the same on this board.
Now who wants to tell us again that that Forumosa is just an online bulletin board?
I think what you said, there, is at the very base of the criticism I faced for having posted my feedback. Others have said the same thing, but not as politely as you have. Itâs understandable since what I said does sound very harsh. But let me ask you this (not you specifically, bobl), how would I possibly go about saying that I think the site needs to improve at the administrative level in order to help the tone on the boards without offending anyone?
I think there is a clear distinction between a lack of attention based on other more important priorities in admins personal life, and calling people jerks, labeling posts stupid, telling people that this site is for grown ups or that their posts resemble that of watery broth of junior high rhetoric. And frankly, there isnât many ways to say that either, other than to just⌠well⌠say it.
From there you can only wonder or make assumptions regarding my personal motivations when saying these things. I have mentioned what my motivations are, and if they arenât clear by now I canât help it.
[quote=âLorettaâ]Iâm trying to avoid commenting on the OP, because his whole point of view rests on an assumption about what the siteâs purpose is - namely that itâs a community in the sense that any group of people choosing to share the same location and interact amicably are a community.[/quote]That is close. A lot closer than assuming that I want the site to resemble what would suit my personal needs. But no cigars. My assumption is not that a community is âgroup of people choosing to share the same location and interact amicably.â In fact, not at all.
I am a member of the foreign community in Taiwan. I am a member of the foreign community in Kaohsiung. Thereâs no escaping that. I donât get to choose. If I live in Taiwan and Iâm a foreigner, it doesnât matter either I behave amicably with others or not, it doesnât matter if I get involved with the community or stay at home 24/7 like a hermit. Iâm still a member of this community.
As for Forumosa, all I have to do is click on âlogout,â close my browser and Iâm out. All that one has to do is click on âregisterâ and they are in. One would certainly hope that in a real life community people would behave amicably, but we all know itâs not always the case. Still, you canât just logout when you decide youâve had enough of people who are not being nice to you (Mind you, many people tend to be a lot nicer IRL than they are online as has been pointed out many times, especially in the case of anonymous posters). If you want to separate yourself from the foreign community in Taiwan, your only option is to leave the country, unlike Forumosa.
This said, if you look at this in terms of community building, rudeness, calling people jerks and jackasses, telling people who have diverse opinions that their posts are stupid, that this place is for grown ups, that their posts are junior high rhetoric, etc, is not helping to build this community. All itâs doing is making people think twice before they click on âregisterâ and join the community, or vote in the above poll with their feet by clicking on âlogout.â
There are people on this board who will fight for their freedom to speak freely, but the bottom line is that half the shite the same people spew, they would never say IRL. âPlayersâ is all they are, and the shite they post is not helping build the Forumosa online community, IMOHO.
Now if you look at the votes in the poll above, youâll notice that as of now, 28% of the votes are in favor of more professionalism on the part of admins. 28%? Thatâs a lot, and a whole lot more than I was hoping for in order to substantiate my position. If you think that my opinion is not to be taken seriously, maybe that of 28% of voters is enough to make you consider my opinion more substantial and worthy of paying attention to. Besides, I have my reasons to believe that a few people have already voted with their feet or will not register and you will not see them voting in this poll. Among them are quite a few women.
To conclude,
Ask yourself, what would the site be like if it was only 28% busier. In the last three years, the members base has grown, but we donât see more posts. Why? If there is an increase in the amount of posts, I am not noticing it, (in fact I think it has decreased) and it is certainly disproportionate to the growing members base. Sure, some of the rude boys may leave the site because they think they canât spew the shite that they would not actually spew IRL anymore, but are they really the people who are helping you build this community? Are they really the kind of posters who will contribute to seeing more posts the like of boblâs posts above in the feedback forum? I seriously doubt it. This place is unlike other communities. People can logout and they donât have to register if what they see isnât something appealing, or if their experience is disappointing them.
Best,
Chris
as you suggested before, I have looked at a lot of maomanâs posts. do you really think you have made a fair characterization of maomanâs posts on the whole? how do you go from âhey a couple of times you said some things that werenât within the letter or spirit of the rulesâ to âyour administration is unprofessional and harmfulâ? thatâs quite a leap. you keep harping on that one point. thereâs a lot missing there.
[quote=âTempo Gainâ][quote=âbobepineâ]
I think there is a clear distinction between a lack of attention based on other more important priorities in admins personal life, and calling people jerks, labeling posts stupid, telling people that this site is for grown ups or that their posts resemble that of watery broth of junior high rhetoric. And frankly, there isnât many ways to say that either, other than to just⌠well⌠say it.
[/quote]
as you suggested before, I have looked at a lot of maomanâs posts. do you really think you have made a fair characterization of maomanâs posts on the whole? [/quote]Yes I do, because it only takes a few posts once in a while to set the tone. Now go look at the moderators posts, and see what they are allowed to post. Not all moderators, of course. Some of them do a really good job despite the lack of management or professionalism on the part of the administrator.
As I said, I think Maomanâs a great guy, and yes, most of his posts are excellent. But you only need to smoke a joint on the job once to let your staff know that toking on the job is acceptable. 
And mods have the same responsibility with regular posters.
DudeâŚitâs not a fucking job. Get it thru your head. I personally think you owe Maoman an apology. You are being a real [color=red]bleep[/color].
[color=red]*[/color]Bad word deleted by admin
Now what do you have to go and say that for? It was explicitly stated in the agreement when you were allowed back into this community that you werenât allowed to say anything that there was even the remotest possibility that I wouldnât be able to disagree with.