Should you quit teaching English while you are learning Chinese?
Yes, it helps a lot
No, it can be done while teaching
Maybe, it’s based on the person
0voters
I asked a friend of mine who’s been here for 27 years what the best way to learn Chinese was and she said: Quit teaching English.
How do people feel? Is this really the best course of action? Here’s what I think:
I go to school for two hours a day to learn Chinese, but then I teach English for four hours a night-- 6 days a week. I def think it’s taking away from extra Chinese time. However, one DOES have to eat and pay rent, so are there any suggestions for alternative and lucrative paying jobs where English is not central?
Also, who has learned to speak better Chinese by watching TV? i know if def helps with listening.
A couple of questions: do you have enough saved to do it? You’ll possibly need to do at least one visa run. Can you live on the bare minimum? Lets face it, it is easy to do in Taiwan(if you’re careful).
I stopped teaching full-time after over four years in Taiwan to concentrate solely on studying Chinese and found I missed teaching and the income from it. So I found a couple of part-time jobs and worked less than 10 hours a week. It’s not difficult to find part-time teaching work. If you have tests in Chinese class every week then it is better not to teach full-time. In my class it was the students who weren’t teachers who did far better but they also attended class regularly compared to the over-sleeping English teachers.
Sure, if you quit your job and focus only on studying Chinese (and excercise – that’s essential too), you’ll pick up the language faster. But as the second post mentions, it depends on whether you have the luxury to quit working.
BUT, you (and many others) are only teaching 4 hours a day. That’s nothing. It should be easy to balance the two if you’re not spending too much time out at the clubs, etc. Try studying Chinese when you’ve got a wife, child, and are working 11 hour days, as I am. Then you’ll laugh at how much free time you had studying Chinese and teaching English. I quit my Chinese lessons for 6 years because I was full-time employed and thought I couldn’t possibly find the time. But I’ve met so many Taiwanese who work full-time and attend university at night after work that I started feeling guilty and finally started taking a class once a week. It’s a pain in the ass, but theoretically possible.
So, 4 hours work per day + studying Chinese sounds totally reasonable to me.
[quote=“dreamlife76”] However, one DOES have to eat and pay rent, so are there any suggestions for alternative and lucrative paying jobs where English is not central?
Also, who has learned to speak better Chinese by watching TV? i know if def helps with listening.[/quote]
I would also like like a lucrative non-time consuming job which doesn’t involve teaching as I am lazy and would like to have lots of money. To any employers who might be reading this, I am super-clever, I can speak and read Chinese (although I need a dikshunary to check hard words) and have many many transferable skills, which, while not perhaps immediately apparent, are bound to be here somewhere. I’m YOURS for the bargain price of 200,000 a month.
About your last question, you improve language skills by doing that skill. Speaking to the TV is not recommended. It is good for listening and reading, though. You have to be up to the level where you understand a certain percentage for it to be meaningful, otherwise it doesn’t really work. I watch DVDs of TV shows as real time TV is really really irritating: favourites:
橘子紅了 (júzi hóngle - Oranges Ripen) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich family in the early 20th century.
金粉世家 (jīn fěn shì jiā - Story of a Noble Family) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich and powerful family in China in the early 20th century. I have also been reading the book at the rate of a page a day for about a year.
畫魂 (huā hún Painter’s Soul) The story of a poor girl… ok, you know the rest. But she also goes to Paris and becomes a painter.
point taken-- I am looking for an easy way out with the job thing, and I definately think my load is more than managable with working just 4 hours. But I do feel like I am unlearning by needing to speak English half my day.
I know hard work is the main key-- as with all life. I just want the “learn Chinese gel”. You know, rud it on an presto-- all you need to know insterted with minimal work. Alas, science fiction is as real as getting rich instantly. But one can indulge ridiculous wishful thinking.
橘子紅了 (júzi hóngle - Oranges Ripen) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich family in the early 20th century.
金粉世家 (jīn fěn shì jiā - Story of a Noble Family) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich and powerful family in China in the early 20th century. I have also been reading the book at the rate of a page a day for about a year.
畫魂 (huā hún Painter’s Soul) The story of a poor girl… ok, you know the rest. But she also goes to Paris and becomes a painter.
I’ve taught English for the past three years and my Chinese has precipitously declined. When I came here, I could write (not like a fluent speaker, of course, but good enough) papers about how China should resist American pressure to liberalize their capital account. After three years of wasting my life playing stickyball games, I’m back to “How’s it going?” level. Now I’m considering how the hell I can get my Chinese back up to the level where I can talk about current events fluently again. I guess it’s possible, but it doesn’t rule out the fact that the past three years of my life have been a big black hole where I’ve been not treading water, but rapidly sinking. If I had ever been able to get a Taiwanese girlfriend (or any Taiwanese friends for that matter), the decline would have been slower, I guess, but working in a Chinese-speaking environment would have been best.
point taken-- I am looking for an easy way out with the job thing, and I definately think my load is more than managable with working just 4 hours. But I do feel like I am unlearning by needing to speak English half my day.
[/quote]
Sorry, I wasn’t having a go at you. It was purely an advertisement… Take me away from all this; someone, please…
A job’s what you make of it. There are probably some cool people in your school you can practise with. Take 'em to Shabu Shabu and ‘language exchange’ 'em. Teaching can rot your brains but it can also be stimulating and rewarding as long as you stay fluid and keep pushing yourself. There are also things you can learn at a school. Make friends with your boss. Get her to teach you what her job is (in Chinese, of course). Figure out what all the Chinese characters mean on Chinese Windows.
Of course, learning Chinese 24/7 may be better as long as you have a social life and opportunities to practise. When I first started learning, a lot of those opportunities came from my students and colleagues.
橘子紅了 (júzi hóngle - Oranges Ripen) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich family in the early 20th century.
金粉世家 (jīn fěn shì jiā - Story of a Noble Family) The story of a poor girl who marries into a rich and powerful family in China in the early 20th century. I have also been reading the book at the rate of a page a day for about a year.
畫魂 (huā hún Painter’s Soul) The story of a poor girl… ok, you know the rest. But she also goes to Paris and becomes a painter.
Happy watching.[/quote]
經典，太經典了。笑倒掉。
小聲說一句，這片子都是我媽媽輩在看哦。：）[/quote]
Welcome to the forum, 羅可可
I know, I know… But I love that stuff. I love the clothes and the houses and all of it. I never watch ‘modern’ tv shows. Any recommendations for things I might like?
[quote=“Buttercup”]About your last question, you improve language skills by doing that skill. Speaking to the TV is not recommended. It is good for listening and reading, though. You have to be up to the level where you understand a certain percentage for it to be meaningful, otherwise it doesn’t really work. I watch DVDs of TV shows as real time TV is really really irritating: favourites:
[/quote]
Actually, improving your listening comprehension is the best way to improve your speaking ability. The more firmly you have your vocabulary and syntax in your brain, the easier it is to form sentences and to get your ideas across. And acquisition of vocab and syntax happen when you get input that you can understand, over and over and over. Talking to anybody (including the TV) doesn’t improve your speaking (unless, maybe – maybe – they are correcting you); repeating after someone (including the TV) might help some as at least you’re repeating correct speech.
Actually the greatest “leap forward” I remember in my speaking and listening comprehension was one year when I was totally disgusted with the whole interpreting thing and just said screw it, and only did written translations. Lots of comprehensible input over and over and over. I found at the end of the year that I had progressed a lot without even trying. (Unfortunately it seems you only get one coupon for that ride. )
[quote=“ironlady”][quote=“Buttercup”]About your last question, you improve language skills by doing that skill. Speaking to the TV is not recommended. It is good for listening and reading, though. You have to be up to the level where you understand a certain percentage for it to be meaningful, otherwise it doesn’t really work. I watch DVDs of TV shows as real time TV is really really irritating: favourites:
[/quote]
Actually, improving your listening comprehension is the best way to improve your speaking ability. The more firmly you have your vocabulary and syntax in your brain, the easier it is to form sentences and to get your ideas across. And acquisition of vocab and syntax happen when you get input that you can understand, over and over and over. Talking to anybody (including the TV) doesn’t improve your speaking (unless, maybe – maybe – they are correcting you); repeating after someone (including the TV) might help some as at least you’re repeating correct speech.
Actually the greatest “leap forward” I remember in my speaking and listening comprehension was one year when I was totally disgusted with the whole interpreting thing and just said screw it, and only did written translations. Lots of comprehensible input over and over and over. I found at the end of the year that I had progressed a lot without even trying. (Unfortunately it seems you only get one coupon for that ride. )[/quote]
Yes, true. I was trying to make the point that living in an isolated bubble to learn Chinese is not always the best way; you end up talking to the TV! A lot of new students have problems with remembering their characters and so stay in and don’t engage with the outside world enough. This is an enormous wasted opportunity, particularly if they are only here for one year. A job can help, as long you aren’t doing too many hours.
TV has been really useful for me but I can speak better than I can converse, if that makes any sense. My listening is much farther ahead of my speaking (as it is with 99% of learners) and tv has been part of that, as has my being nosy and wanting to know everyone’s business in the office (now I can understand, I don’t want to know anymore…).
[quote=“Buttercup”]My listening is much farther ahead of my speaking (as it is with 99% of learners) and tv has been part of that, as has my being nosy and wanting to know everyone’s business in the office (now I can understand, I don’t want to know anymore…).
Pah, Chinese! I’ll never be good at it![/quote]
I guess I’m in the 1% that speak better than they can listen (and I’m not a raw beginner with hardly any vocabulary). Hopefully after some more time my abilities will be in line with one another.
Paddy joe, I am the same. I never watch tv in English so refuse to start in Chinese. I have one on one lessons and just don’t get enough listening practise.
Buttercup, you can do my job and I’ll keep the change if you want?
Seriously there was a thread before with Head Hunters names on it. If you can find it you should send in your resume. Western management skills and strong chinese language skills should be in hot demand, you just need someone to help you market yourself.
[quote=“Edgar Allen”]Buttercup, you can do my job and I’ll keep the change if you want?
Seriously there was a thread before with Head Hunters names on it. If you can find it you should send in your resume. Western management skills and strong chinese language skills should be in hot demand, you just need someone to help you market yourself.[/quote]
Sure I actually thought of ‘subletting’ some of my classes to people with a couple of years of experience. I’d still make money while doing nothing. Or they could pay me and I’d observe 'em and give feedback, train 'em. Boss didn’t really go for that one…
‘Super-clever’ may be more my assessment than anyone else’s… But I would be interested in doing something else. I need to figure out a way of earning more money. I’ll look for the thread.
It’s not unusual in my experience for people to feel as though they can speak better than they comprehend (= converse, because conversation is both speaking and understanding). There are a couple of logical reasons for that.
First, speaking means you’re expressing YOUR ideas. You can change, alter, modify, cheat, or just not say things as it suits you (or your command of the language). No one knows whether you really mean to say something else. Second, you don’t know if you’re making a mistake, because presumably if you knew you wouldn’t make that mistake. It depends on what criterion you are using to judge your speaking ability (“I get what I want”, “People worship my Chinese”, “Cab drivers tell me my Mandarin is very good”, “I record it and have bilinguals pick it apart” or whatever; obviously all of these give different results!)
But (and this is my theory, not supported by much) I think Mandarin as a spoken language is more difficult to comprehend than English, given approximately the same level of competence in the language and the same kind of conversation. This could be because more English speakers are “used to” cutting non-native speakers a few breaks, while many Mandarin speakers tend to simply give up immediately in frustration, or are unable to repeat or slow down; but I suspect it has to do with the density of the language as well. Chinese, being largely mono- or bi-syllabic, goes by pretty damn fast. If you count the number of “ideas” per minute in a speech, (assuming the speakers both have the same point and are trying to get to it in a reasonably expedient manner) I think probably Chinese will notch up more “meaning units” per unit of time, just because it’s often faster to say things in Chinese (fewer syllables and less phonetic complexity) than in English.
At least that’s how I comfort myself when I realize my listening comprehension still sucks. :s
God what I would do for somebody who could teach mandarin using TPRS methods.
The wife and I trade languages. Monday is English, Tuesday Mandarin etc. Last Tuesday I had a moment of clarity. “Look” I said “This isn’t working. Constantly hearing mandarin that I have to guess the meaning of doesn’t teach me anything and frustrates the living fuck out of me. We have to slow the whole thing down. I need to actually hear the words you are using, and either because I already know the words or because the context of our interaction make it obvious, know what they mean. You will need to repeat things slowly at first and then the same thing quicker after I’ve got it. I need to be able to say what I want to be able to say and I need to be able to say it correctly. I need you to correct my pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary choices. You should try to remember what I’ve learned recently and look for opportunities to use that vocabulary again. I will want to tape record a lot of this. Later I’ll transcribe some of it into Pinyin and put it somewhere that I can review it. We can’t ‘just speak Chinese together’ all the time because if we do that I often won’t know if what I heard was what you meant or even if what “I” said was what “I” meant. For that we will need to translate and even though we just communicated the whole thing in English we will need to do it again in Chinese so that I can learn it. Seriously, this is important to me. I want to improve and if you want to help me you need to completely understand what I just said. We can relax and live but these basic things you gotta get OK?”
“Laogong” she said “Wo dage” and then proceeded to do so.
[quote=“bob”]The wife and I trade languages. Monday is English, Tuesday Mandarin etc. Last Tuesday I had a moment of clarity. “Look” I said "This isn’t working…[/quote]It’s actually not terribly difficult to provide simplified input, with repetition, appropriate speed and pauses, fewer pronouns, shorter and simpler sentences, etc. What your wife could do is think of how people speak to very young children and try that (though obviously avoiding the singsong voice and the doubling up of nouns such as “gougou” and “cheche”!)
It also helps a lot at first if the topics concern here-and-now things. Actions, people and objects that you can see at the time you get the input.
I have “guided” native speakers (Taiwanese, Tagalog) in providing TPRS-style input for me. I chose four words, and then gave them an example of the kind of input I wanted to get in English or Mandarin. One way of cluing them in is to say, “Say one sentence, and then stop, ask and answer every question you can think of about it (all the WH- words in English).”
So if the first sentence of the text is “There is a boy named Bob”, (and you’re teaching the word “boy”) the teacher would then follow up with something like "Is Bob a boy or a girl? Is the boy named Bob? Is the boy named Bob or George? Who is named Bob? Where is Bob? Is the boy tall? Does the boy have a dog? etc. etc. going through all the vocab s/he can think of that the student knows or which can be conveniently demonstrated (no need to teach the words for big and little, they are easy to demonstrate when you ask the question!)
It’s incredibly mind-numbing from the teacher’s perspective, because s/he knows the language already. But if you’re really at the point where those four words are totally new to you, it’s not boring at all. A good TPRS story can be only four or five sentences long, and provide plenty of material for an hour’s lesson or more.
See if you can find some examples in English to get a feel for them. The YahooGroups folks usually post stories for everyone to see. That might help you get a feeling for how to coach your teacher to teach you.
I’ve also done it (VERY carefully) with a native speaking informant and me telling the story, with another student in the class, using the four new words I myself was just learning. (This was for Taiwanese). I made sure that the informant would stop me every time I made a mistake (and I was making very simple sentences to try to avoid it). It seemed to work out all right, but it was more relaxing to be just the student instead of having to keep the story going and figure out the language at the same time. (It seems to have made a deep impression, though; I can still remember the Taiwanese word for ‘sneakers’ tones and all.)
Thanks Ironlady. The yahoo groups post stories written specifically for teaching with TPRS then I take it? I would do a search but am afraid I may not be able to identify a good TPRS story. Perhaps you have favorite website hmmmm… pretty please.
But I love that stuff. I love the clothes and the houses and all of it. I never watch ‘modern’ tv shows. Any recommendations for things I might like?
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