Yup its an adventure. The girls make it all worth it. If you cant fcuk the girls, then basically fcuk Taiwan !
[quote=âtomthorneâ][quote=âblueeee11â]
I am not so sure about the law and order aka penal system there. Light sentences, serve half of it and you can go out on tag. âPrisonsâ with swimming pools, gyms, PSPs, dvds, avon catalogue shopping, pool tables, free degrees, personal TV set to watch, day release back home and of course lots of teaâŚvery cushyâŚwouldnât mind staying in one of the open ones for a while âŚnice place to chill and relax on taxpayersâ money.[/quote]
Maybe one day, as East Asian countries become developed, they will have prisons as good as ours.[/quote]
Yeah really !
STOP READING THE DAILY MAIL, tommy! 
Blueeeeee13: stay on topic, fer feksake.
Or take your rants to another forum.
[quote=âZennorâ]Bike scratched several times and dented to the point that I canât be bothered to keep fixing it.
Kayak stolen
Camera stolen
Wallet stolen
Phone stolen
Car scratched and wiper pulled off.
Saw a taxi driver pull somone elseâs wiper off a couple of months ago.
[color=#0000FF]Paint poured on car.[/color]
Saved lady from having her handbag snatched at knifepoint in an alley.
Caught thief in the act of trying to force open scooter seat.
Witnessed someone running after someone else with a gun in Chang Hua.
Witnessed someone slash someone elseâs arm in Kaohsiung. Severed artery.
[color=#4000FF]Got punched in the chest by a cop in Kaohsiung for not wearing a helmet when riding my scooter to cross the road. [/color]
Any country that needs to employ security guards at level crossings in order to stop people from crossing the track when the barriers are down does not strike me as developed. Of course, Iâm generalising here, but as day to day business goes, this is what Taiwan looks like to me.[/quote]
Your description fits the UK and the USA to a tee as well.
Looks like you are hopelessly careless or an attraction magnet for disaster or just plain unlucky. Iâve had my car broken into and the CD radio player stolen back in 1994 in Taiching ( too bad it doesnt work without the smart card the fools forgot they needed ) but that happens in any country.
[quote=âSatellite TVâ]
Your description fits the UK and the USA to a tee as well.
Looks like you are hopelessly careless or an attraction magnet for disaster or just plain unlucky. Iâve had my car broken into and the CD radio player stolen back in 1994 in Taiching ( too bad it doesnt work without the smart card the fools forgot they needed ) but that happens in any country.[/quote]
QFT. Everywhere has its rough spots. Want to know hell? Its called West Baltimore.
[quote]Your description fits the UK and the USA to a tee as well.
Looks like you are hopelessly careless or an attraction magnet for disaster or just plain unlucky. Iâve had my car broken into and the CD radio player stolen back in 1994 in Taiching ( too bad it doesnt work without the smart card the fools forgot they needed ) but that happens in any country.[/quote]
True.
The list also included things that Iâve witnessed happening to others, so I donât really consider myself unlucky or attracting disaster.
Also, the bike being scratched and dented happens because people here donât really have respect for othersâ belongings. The bike has ben scrached because it has been moved carelessly (usually so a car can park in the spaces reserved for bikes), knocked over or has scooters rammed in-between it and another bike. So this doesnât really count as crime, just complete lack of respect. I also know back home, if anybody accidentally damaged one of my vehicles, there would be a note with a telephone number.
The paint on car and the scratches received - well, I travel alot and have to use public parking sometimes. Of course, this being Taiwan, some people take street parking as their own. Unfortunately, I donât know if a random space in PingTung or YiLan âbelongsâ to somebody, but I usually find out on my return by what state the car is in. While not crime of the century, itâs really annoying and I wish once - just once - I could catch somebody at it.
My point in compiling the list was to counter the notion that Taiwan is safer, or has less crime than many other countries like, as you mentioned, the US or UK. I believe this to be untrue. A quick glance at the papers over breakfast usually confirms this for me.
[quote=âdjlowballerâ][quote=âSatellite TVâ]
Your description fits the UK and the USA to a tee as well.
Looks like you are hopelessly careless or an attraction magnet for disaster or just plain unlucky. Iâve had my car broken into and the CD radio player stolen back in 1994 in Taiching ( too bad it doesnt work without the smart card the fools forgot they needed ) but that happens in any country.[/quote]
QFT. Everywhere has its rough spots. Want to know hell? Its called West Baltimore.[/quote]
I <3 Baltimore
[quote=âZennorâ][quote]
But in Taiwan you can walk around without fearing for your safety. Your house and cars are safe. This is not the case in some areas of Europe such as London.[/quote]
Bike scratched several times and dented to the point that I canât be bothered to keep fixing it.
Kayak stolen
Camera stolen
Wallet stolen
Phone stolen
Car scratched and wiper pulled off.
Saw a taxi driver pull somone elseâs wiper off a couple of months ago.
Paint poured on car.
Saved lady from having her handbag snatched at knifepoint in an alley.
Caught thief in the act of trying to force open scooter seat.
Witnessed someone running after someone else with a gun in Chang Hua.
Witnessed someone slash someone elseâs arm in Kaohsiung. Severed artery.
Got punched in the chest by a cop in Kaohsiung for not wearing a helmet when riding my scooter to cross the road.
The most thatâs happened to me back home: I got lightly beaten up once and had my car mirror kicked off as a group of drunken youths walked down the street.
I think Taiwan is developed to a degree, but the minds of the Taiwanese havenât caught up. It matters not how much people earn, how good the transport system or healthcare is - Iâm sorry, but the majority of Taiwanese people live like pigs and treat the environment they live in with contempt. The way they treat each other on the road, on the street or in any situation which requires contact with strangers and the âme firstâ policy comes into effect.
Itâs dirty. The cities stink. The people are often only interested in you until the novelty foreigner value wears off. The government actively puts peoplesâ lives in danger with its stupid land use policies and no matter how much they earn, most people live in a dirty, brightly lit box with minimal furnishings, no heating in the winter and with surround - sound âother peopleâs TV volume.â âteenager off-note piano practiceâ and âold person back-of-the-throat phlegm productionâ noises.
Any country that needs to employ security guards at level crossings in order to stop people from crossing the track when the barriers are down does not strike me as developed.
Of course, Iâm generalising here, but as day to day business goes, this is what Taiwan looks like to me.[/quote]
A very nice summary of the negative points I agree entirely with every single one.
There are positives too though. I am comparing to the UK
MUCH lower taxation
cheaper food
cheap petrol
cheap public transport
many cinemas and cheap
eating out is cheap
one can get paid just to talk
cheap and good fruit
lack or red tape
lack of laws
lack or needing a certificate to do most things that require ones in UK. In UK cannot even pic your arse without a license
Lack of constant CCTV cameras
lack of terrorists
lack of aggressive beggars
lack of football hooligans
lack of BNP thugs
Lack of Islamic hook handed crazy preachers
cheap taxis compared to black cabs
abundance of cheap technological goods
ease of self medication
hoards of smooth skinned long legged smiling women
lack of English winters
Everyoneâs situation is different and do agree with the points u made about Taiwan. But bad things happen everywhere and there is good and bad in both 
[quote=âmahkieâ][quote=âdjlowballerâ][quote=âSatellite TVâ]
Your description fits the UK and the USA to a tee as well.
Looks like you are hopelessly careless or an attraction magnet for disaster or just plain unlucky. Iâve had my car broken into and the CD radio player stolen back in 1994 in Taiching ( too bad it doesnt work without the smart card the fools forgot they needed ) but that happens in any country.[/quote]
QFT. Everywhere has its rough spots. Want to know hell? Its called West Baltimore.[/quote]
I <3 Baltimore[/quote]
I am guessing you spend your time there east of MLK in daylight. Inner harbor and the gentrified parts are lovelyâŚunfortunately the vast majority of it is danger zone.
Why must it be one or the other? (Taiwan or U.K.)
Surely there are places in the world where people genuinely are nice to each other, respect the environment, etc. without needing government to wield a big stick to get compliance. The Nordic countries do have a lot of laws, but people there also seem to have just internalised what those laws represent. People there genuinely seem to understand the concept of the tragedy of the commons and why itâs a bad thing. Iâd say the middle class in the U.K. do generally also but there are far too many chavs there. Societyâs mindset can evolve. I believe that back in the 70s and early 80s, littering was fairly commonplace in Australia to the point where there was a government campaign against it. Australia is not at the point where there are Singaporean levels of people getting all over you for this, and yet most people at least think littering is a fairly anti-social thing to do so they donât do it. It doesnât come at some huge personal cost to dispose of a wrapper or bottle correctly, yet it does come at a huge personal cost if everyone doesnât dispose of those things correctly. Likewise, it doesnât come at a huge personal cost to wait at a traffic light for an extra minute or two, but it does come at a huge personal cost to get cleaned up by someone running a red light. I do like Taiwan for many of the reasons mentioned, but I donât think it has to be an either/or situation between having those good things and freedom or having civility and a lack of freedom. Why canât people just act in a mature, responsible fashion? (Thatâs a huge question about human nature, of course.) Anyway, it does seem possible as itâs happened elsewhere in the world.
[quote=âGuyInTaiwanâ]Why must it be one or the other? (Taiwan or U.K.)
Surely there are places in the world where people genuinely are nice to each other, respect the environment, etc. without needing government to wield a big stick to get compliance. The Nordic countries do have a lot of laws, but people there also seem to have just internalised what those laws represent. People there genuinely seem to understand the concept of the tragedy of the commons and why itâs a bad thing. Iâd say the middle class in the U.K. do generally also but there are far too many chavs there. Societyâs mindset can evolve. I believe that back in the 70s and early 80s, littering was fairly commonplace in Australia to the point where there was a government campaign against it. Australia is not at the point where there are Singaporean levels of people getting all over you for this, and yet most people at least think littering is a fairly anti-social thing to do so they donât do it. It doesnât come at some huge personal cost to dispose of a wrapper or bottle correctly, yet it does come at a huge personal cost if everyone doesnât dispose of those things correctly. Likewise, it doesnât come at a huge personal cost to wait at a traffic light for an extra minute or two, but it does come at a huge personal cost to get cleaned up by someone running a red light. I do like Taiwan for many of the reasons mentioned, but I donât think it has to be an either/or situation between having those good things and freedom or having civility and a lack of freedom. Why canât people just act in a mature, responsible fashion? (Thatâs a huge question about human nature, of course.) Anyway, it does seem possible as itâs happened elsewhere in the world.[/quote]
Where?
Utopia
fenlander: Maybe not necessarily with big things, but with little things. Like I mentioned about litter. You donât need the approach of Singapore, but you also donât need the kind of free-for-all of Taiwan. You educate people a little and say, âHey, letâs all take pride in where we liveâ. Sure, there will always be a certain percentage who wonât give a shit, but plenty of people will get onboard with it. Iâm not claiming Australia is some litter-free paradise, because itâs obviously not, but it certainly looks a lot better than here in that respect, and as I mentioned, people generally think itâs fairly crass to litter. I was actually shocked when I was in the U.K. about how prevalent littering was by comparison. There are indeed differences between Australians and British people, but I donât think thereâs that much of a difference in this respect. British and Australians seem fairly equally apt to queue and so on (so they understand the concept of the tragedy of the commons), so I suspect itâs to do with the afore-mentioned public campaign when I was a kid. Believe me, Iâm not in favour of government mandating morality at all, but I think some large body (be it government or a private organisation) can be used in a non-invasive way to help organise and educate people who may be of like mind but figure there arenât enough people who think like them to justify putting the effort in themselves. I think there are a lot of very simple, non-invasive changes that could be made here with a little education.
[quote=âStevenCrookâ][quote=âCraigTPEâ]
I donât think the OP was placing any value judgment on in. Some economies are developed and some arenât. Whatâs so offensive in discussing it?[/quote]
Nothing offensive about, but itâs a huge waste of time and energy. People should be concerned about individual indicators - life expectancy, infant mortality, how many families canât afford to pay for their kidsâ education even when itâs cheap (something in which Taiwan scores badly at the moment) - than devising systems which gather all of these variables together and attach weights to them so some kind of âleague tableâ can be drawn up. Itâs like combining a poll of critics and box-office takings to find out âthe best movies of all time.â[/quote]
Iâm inclined to concur, but stats only take one so far. Thereâs also the real nitty gritty subjective valuation. Everyday living.
[quote=âZennorâ]
I think Taiwan is developed to a degree, but the minds of the Taiwanese havenât caught up. It matters not how much people earn, how good the transport system or healthcare is - Iâm sorry, but the majority of Taiwanese people live like pigs and treat the environment they live in with contempt.[/quote]
No doubt it sounds like youâve had a rough go of it, and thus your angle is obviously slanted by experience. Yet, whomâs realm is not influenced by experience?
Indeed, I do, agree with your general points, such as I quoted above.
I would posit that itâs most surely a tough biscuit for the social mind to catch up with the social matter. One wonders how the rest of the 1st world would have fared if theyâd had to âdevelopâ in two generations, as opposed to their average rate of plus twenty? But then, with full on fascism, weâve come on full circle, now havenât we?
TheGingerMan: Yet people have money and do travel here. One of the advantages of living in a smaller world now is that ideas can travel fast. People can look at how something is done in one place and copy it much more quickly than they would have in the past. Technology can get taken up incredibly quickly here, for instance.
Also, how about Iceland? Okay, yes, how about IcelandâŚits economy is screwed up. Thatâs not what I mean though. A couple of generations ago, it really was some backwards, fishermanâs island lagging behind the rest of Europe. Yet itâs modernised in a very short period of time and people actually dispose of their litter and take pride in their surroundings. Suburban Reykjavik (we got on a bus going the wrong way one day) is fairly clean and civilised also, so itâs not like they just tidy up downtown for the tourists.
[quote=âdjlowballerâ]
I am guessing you spend your time there east of MLK in daylight. Inner harbor and the gentrified parts are lovelyâŚunfortunately the vast majority of it is danger zone.[/quote]
Nah, I just carry a gun on me. I am probably going to buy a rowhouse in the DMZ when I get back (900,000NT yo).
I agree. However, look how folks do travel here. And how they use technology. Group tours are all very well, but are no substitute for individual journeys upon The Great Wheel.
Iceland is an aberration. Except in the fact that the Cold War made both Iceland & Taiwan of vital strategic importance. So I guess these historical junkets make for strange politics. So in that manner, Taiwan is an aberration, as well.
I think we have to agree on criteria for such an assessment before we can reach consensus.
I propose, for starters, the criterion of fungal infections.
I think we have to agree on criteria for such an assessment before we can reach consensus.
I propose, for starters, the criterion of fungal infections.[/quote]
I propose the obvious â a propensity for consuming unpasteurised cheese.