Southern Taiwan Earthquake 2/6/2016

Yep, I love it too. And I can’t watch the news anymore. If I see any more children crying and telling the rescuers that their daddy, mommy and sister/brother are still inside… I’ll have a heart attack.

There is this one kid, 3 year old approximately, I think, they couldn’t identify him, he can’t tell who he is or where he lived, and can’t find his parents. Earlier, there was a little girl, too, but her grandmother recognized her on tv and rushed from Kaohsiung to be by her side. Parents probably still inside…[/quote]

I read of a woman who at the time she was interviewed her son was still missing, she was supposed to come stay with him for the holiday on Friday night but for some reason decided to wait until Saturday morning so she possibly averted death because she waited a few extra hours to come see him. I can’t imagine the feelings of pain and guilt that she must be going through,[/quote]

That is awful, but it would be worse if he wanted to go see her Friday and she insisted on him not going until Saturday. My mom once wanted to hitch a ride back home with her sister and her kids after work but got stuck talking with an old friend, by the time she got there they were already gone. They got on an accident and two of her kids died, it was really hard for my mom to let it go because she was sure she would have asked them to take another route.

The ones that should really burn in hell are those bastard that used tin cans and the styrofoam on the building.

What’s the latest on people trapped ?

I hope this news isn’t too stale.

There’s a CNA report from about 11 o’clock p.m. on the 7th that says “121人失聯” (“121 people lost contact”?), but I also see “困住的120人” (“120 people trapped”?), so I guess there were around 120 people reported trapped at that time. It also seems to say there are 34 dead (“死亡人數增至34人”), but I also see the number 31 (“地震共造成31死”). It reports 515 injured (“515傷”). Here’s the CNA report:
cna.com.tw/news/firstnews/20 … 310-1.aspx

making progress but the difficulty increases tremendously as the rescue teams go deeper into the rubble. They’re trying to rescue one at a time. It’s hard enough to find and locate a survivor, it’s another thing to get the person out. Updates are here:

news.ltn.com.tw/topic/%E6%B0%B8% … 7%E6%A8%93

[quote=“sofun”]making progress but the difficulty increases tremendously as the rescue teams go deeper into the rubble. They’re trying to rescue one at a time. It’s hard enough to find and locate a survivor, it’s another thing to get the person out. Updates are here:

news.ltn.com.tw/topic/%E6%B0%B8% … 7%E6%A8%93[/quote]

Thanks, sofun!

Not to be pessimistic, but the ones not rescued yet are underneath a lot of rubble. It is not looking good.

121 missing.

That was yesterday evening. Any updates?

121 missing.

That was yesterday evening. Any updates?[/quote]

I’ve been looking; no luck so far.

Edit: Apple Daily seems to be saying there are 40 deaths now.

appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/section/new/

This has been debunked before, but here’s another shot: appledaily.com.tw/realtimene … _source=FB

This has been debunked before, but here’s another shot: appledaily.com.tw/realtimene … _source=FB[/quote]

Not been keeping up - so are we saying that at this point in time, there’s no evidence of construction deficiencies in any of the collapsed buildings?

Absolutely not. There have been several to criticize the “soft story” design of the buildings to allow more open space in the lower floors for shops and offices. There is evidence that the lower floors were first to collapse. There’ve been other allegations that the construction companies (two, after the first went bankrupt) used shoddy materials and didn’t build to spec. There’s one allegation that some banks had blacklisted the site for mortgages because they knew how shoddy things were there. I’m not sure how accurate these are but they are also being reported in the press.

It’s just that pointing to the oil cans in walls as a cause of collapse is just one of those rumors that flies around after every big earthquake. If even a big muckraker like Apple Daily is calling shenanigans on a rumor, it’s probably not true.

The pictures are there. I wouldn’t call it a rumour. A different thing is whether the cans really affected the structure soundness… And not being an expert, I’d say that the better those columns, the better or standing an earthquake… Even if they’re not main columns.

It’s a rumor that it CAUSED the collapse.

It’s a rumor that it CAUSED the collapse.[/quote]
I haven’t heard that it caused the collapse. I have heard people criticise to have done such crap.

It’s possible that those oil can columns are decorative columns instead of supporting ones.

This has been debunked before, but here’s another shot: appledaily.com.tw/realtimene … _source=FB[/quote]

Not been keeping up - so are we saying that at this point in time, there’s no evidence of construction deficiencies in any of the collapsed buildings?[/quote]

There was a major deficiency quoted regarding the bending of the steal beams at tbe corners: current regulations call for 135 degrees and a more intricate and sturdier pattern, while the collapsed building had only 90 degree half done twists.

The construction company owner is still in business. He has changed his name 3 times. That makes one`s spine ti gle with fear: how many buildings out there were built the same or worse?

But it is not only his fault. Of the construction workers and engineers: how come there is or was not a single whistleblower? Any mafia or big political kahuna involved?

The residents apparently had complained before of damage during quakes. How come government inspectors never noticed or made a ruling? Shouldn’t the fact that tbe company went bankrupt be already a big red flag? Is it true banks were not giving mortgages for this apartment block? What did they know and how and why didn’t the government step up to protect the people? How can we trust this won’t happen again?

As per experts, expect a 5 pointer replica any time within two months and a 7 pointer with 65 percent probabity down south.

You have a gift for sarcasm.

17 story buildings should be constructed of H and I beams , but pictures I saw were of RC (reinforced concrete).

I thought RC was only good for up to 10 floors , if that. And beams are safer in quakes. Still need to be put together properly and all that though. I don’t think RC is safe for tall buildings, buildings more then 4 floors in quake country. Even then not that safe. RC is just not safe in quake country.

Article in NY Times “Neighbors Had Doubts About Complex That Collapsed in Taiwan Quake”

nytimes.com/2016/02/09/world … html?&_r=0

[quote=“tommy525”]17 story buildings should be constructed of H and I beams , but pictures I saw were of RC (reinforced concrete).

I thought RC was only good for up to 10 floors , if that. And beams are safer in quakes. Still need to be put together properly and all that though. I don’t think RC is safe for tall buildings, buildings more then 4 floors in quake country. Even then not that safe. RC is just not safe in quake country.[/quote]

I’m not an engineer or architect, but I have some experience in construction. Anyway, I mostly agree with what you say, though RC is not bad in quake country provided you don’t go too high with it. RC is definitely preferred over brick construction. I have two houses here in Taiwan, both made of RC, but each is only one-story high. That’s intentional - I’m paranoid about quakes.

Regardless of whether or not the now-collapsed Weiguan Jinlong complex should have been built from RC only or I-beams, my understanding is that all 9 buildings simply fell over like a set of dominoes, and that should not have happened. The key to preventing that kind of disaster is to have a solid foundation, but that can be tricky in Tainan’s rather muddy rice paddy environment. In days of old, that wasn’t a big problem since buildings weren’t very tall, but nowadays it is a big problem. A tall building has a high center of gravity.

That said, since there were 9 parallel buildings (I think), the solution would have been pretty simple. Below I’ve drawn an example of what I would have done had I been the dictator-in-chief of the project (forgive the crudeness of my drawings, I’m no artist).

In figure 1 below, I’ve drawn the complex the way I believe it was constructed. That is to say, 9 parallel buildings set in Tainan’s muddy soil. The uneven flat horizontal line represents the ground level, which I’ve deliberately exaggerated to show that it might not be perfectly flat (mud can move - you’ve no doubt seen sidewalks bulge, crack and collapse). If I’ve got the building configuration wrong, I’d appreciate it if someone would tell me, because I’m not familiar with the area. Anyway, you can see that there isn’t much to prevent the buildings from toppling over if you shake them hard enough.

In figure 2, my first suggested improvement is to build a foundation under the mud that connects all the buildings together. You’d have to punch a few big holes into the foundation in order to let ground water to pass either up or down as the water table changes.

In figure 3, I’ve added some cross beams to the top of the complex. That does involve sacrificing some aesthetics, but I have seen this done in some big apartment complexes.

I could probably say more, but for now I guess that’s enough.


Figure 1


Figure 2


Figure 3