Stray Dog Problem ~ Part II

Starving the animals as a mean to control the population(even if it works) without actually CNRing the animals is just putting a band-aid on the problem at the animal’s demise. I can not agree with that. Once the animals are sterilized, once the problem is addressed ethically and pragmatically, one could not possibly say that feeding them will aggravate the over population problem. The dogs may live longer, though, and it may take longer before you see a the population decrease. But since when is doing the right thing the easiest route to take?

Apologies for the drastic edits, but when you say “other sources of food” does that include stopping people from feeding strays in parks, for example? I don’t think Bobepine for one agrees with that.[/quote]

I hope that clarifies my position, joesax. Also, you may be interested to know that not so long ago, Sean posted an invite for anyone feeding strays to drop by the holding center for free dog food.

You may be shocked to know that we get thousands of dollars worth of free dog food weekly, and we donate the majority of it to people who take the time to feed strays. Mind me, the feeders we collaborate with CNR many animals (mostly females). I’m sure it’s the same in Taipei; like I said, people who are adamant to help strays are more and more aware of the importance of neutering them.

I have helped catching some of the more timid dogs quite a few times already, and thanks to the bond between feeders and the fed, we are able to get close enough to the animals to use a variety of dog catching equipment to take the dogs in with ease. Well… Most of the time… :wink: And that’s the extent of our involvement with the dog feeders. They take care of the animals post-surgery, they pay the vet bills, and they return the animals themselves.

One big bag of food alone is worth 600NT. Three bags saves them enough money to spay a female. It works out really well. :slight_smile: (Thanks to Sean for scoring the regular supply of free food for us!) A foreign lady we now collaborate with used to spend thousands every month feeding and CNRing the odd bitch. Since we started letting her have food for free, she’s been CNRing an average of two to three dogs per month. I’m currently helping her out as she is in the process of CNRing an entire pack of 12 dogs she feeds daily. Now I’d like anyone dare telling her that she is contributing to the stray overpopulation problem. Better yet, I’d like anyone telling me how you could possibly justify issuing her a fine for doing that. :raspberry:

It’s also a matter of personal preferences for me. I dislike seeing dog feces infesting a nice park, but my dislike for that doesn’t compare with the pain I feel when seeing emaciated animals, starving animals, and heart-wrenching suffering. Some will debate that by agreeing to feed them, there is more suffering animals as a result. My reasoning is to address this problem properly.

[quote]I certainly hope that CNR will be proven effective here. It seems that it should be, and anyway there’s no harm in trying.[/quote]Exactly. Everything else failed.

[quote]Another question I had was as to why encountering stray dogs on the street is relatively uncommon in other countries such as the UK. Is this due to CNR programs? The information Tom Hill posted didn’t really say either way. Or is it due to killing of dogs? Quite a few stray dogs are killed in the UK every year. Out of principle I’m opposed to that, but pro-CNR people need to be ready to respond to such arguments.[/quote]Some countries such as Canada have enormous funding, and it is mostly used to re-home animals, and to cull the animals who do not find homes within the satisfactory period of time. Mind me, CNR is not an option with sub-zero temperature in the winter. You’ll find that countries with harsh winters rarely have an abundance of strays.

As for the UK, I’d say that among many other factors, the biggest reason why you don’t see as many strays is due to cultural differences. Hence the need to back up a CNR program with a solid education campaign, here, in Taiwan. Sean may be able to shed more light on this for you. That’s where he hails from.

[quote=“bobepine”]Starving the animals as a mean to control the population(even if it works) without actually CNRing the animals is just putting a band-aid on the problem at the animal’s demise. I can not agree with that. Once the animals are sterilized, once the problem is addressed ethically and pragmatically, one could not possibly say that feeding them will aggravate the over population problem. The dogs may live longer, though, and it may take longer before you see a the population decrease. But since when is doing the right thing the easiest route to take?

Apologies for the drastic edits, but when you say “other sources of food” does that include stopping people from feeding strays in parks, for example? I don’t think Bobepine for one agrees with that.[/quote]

I hope that clarifies my position, joesax.[/quote]Yes, it does, thanks.

[quote]I certainly hope that CNR will be proven effective here. It seems that it should be, and anyway there’s no harm in trying.[/quote]Exactly. Everything else failed.[/quote]I think you misunderstood my point. People are talking about CNR being a proven method. Well, yes, it is – with cats. Also with dogs but only in developing countries as far as I know. The evidence so far would seem to suggest that CNR would be effective in managing stray dog populations on a large scale in Taiwan. But it doesn’t prove it. You might feel this is nit-picking, but I think it’s important to be quite precise about the claims you make, because otherwise it gives people who might be opposed to CNR more ground on which to attack. I’m not suggesting by any means that you give up doing CNR. I’m saying that if you use the existing evidence to try to justify CNR to people in the hope that it will be used on a wider scale, those people might have some questions as to what the evidence so far really proves.

This is also really why I think it would be good to establish why some countries don’t have so many stray dogs wandering around the streets. People could look at the fact that quite a few stray dogs are killed in these places, and come to the conclusion that the killing is what reduced the stray dog problem. I think that to persuade your “opponents” otherwise, you’d have to have some decent explanations. The cold weather thing could be one explanation, but do California, Texas, and Florida have many stray dogs around? Another thing is that people there might in general be more responsible pet owners, as you mention. And another is that garbage collection and cleaning might be more efficient. But it would be useful to have good proof that this was the reason.

Just my opinion, anyway. Keep up the good work!

In the UK and the States, interestingly, 70 percent of ‘pet’ dogs are sterilized, which is 3 percent greater than what’s needed to level off a population. I Taiwan it’s 20 percent.

Also, in the UK, we have an infrastructure that works as far as stray management goes; bear in mind that strays in England are only stray for a very short time, as opposed to those here, because the procedures are in place to take the dog in before he or she can breed (if not desexed). Although over 100,000 strays were rounded up last year, only 7,000 were killed, for a large number of reasons, from the animals being too aggressive to them having no comfortable future. The number killed in the whole of England is far less than the number killed in Taipei City alone. Adopting from shelters is extremely popular, as it can be here, because, according to research, Taiwanese are many times more likely to adopt a stray than, say, an American.

I am certain that CNR can work better here than anywhere else, as we have everything we need in place already. We have very cheap veterinary care; we have a human population that does not want to see dogs killed; caring for and monitoring strays by members of the community is already a going concern; community dog caring is already popular (construction sites, neighbourhoods, building guards, universities, convenience stores, street vendors, etc.); the number of strays here is manageable; neutering of pets and strays is the only element that needs promoting. We also have a populace who adapt very quickly and follow rules very readily when they’re promoted and enforced properly (beetlenut-juice spitting, riding scooters side-saddle, wearing crash helmets, recycling, etc.). The research I linked to highlights many of these factors. We also have a country that desperately needs to raise its international profile as well as its treatment of animals. And the government is willing to throw money at the idea.

Also, the number of strays has only taken off with the rapid rate of urbanization here in the late 1980s and early 1990s. We are seeing a population explosion here - this has not been a long-term problem in Taiwan.

I think CNR (with education) can’t fail. If we neutered 70 percent (more!) of the stray and owned canine population, the number of pups would drop drastically - the effect that will have on the number of strays as well as the number being killed in shelters is obvious.

I’m just dashing out - let me know if I need to address any more points …

[quote=“Stray Dog”]Also, in the UK, we have an infrastructure that works as far as stray management goes; bear in mind that strays in England are only stray for a very short time, as opposed to those here, because the procedures are in place to take the dog in before he or she can breed (if not desexed).[/quote]That is very similar to what happens in Canada. In fact people know not to let their dog run loose or else they end up having to pay a small fine to get their dog back from the RSPCA. They are quick to catch loose dogs.

[quote]caring for and monitoring strays by members of the community is already a going concern; community dog caring is already popular (construction sites, neighbourhoods, building guards, universities, convenience stores, street vendors, etc.)[/quote]That’s also what I’m seeing. In addition to feeding the animals, many are CNRed as I mentioned, but what I forgot to mention is that at least as many animals are removed from the street/re-homed. I would be difficult to round up figures on that, but from what I see happening, I’d say a whole lot of animals are re-homed by the people who care for and monitor strays

I knew you’d shed more light on joe’s question than I have. I said it before, and I’ll say it again, it’s just an age thing. I’ll be way smarter than you by the time I’m as old as you are. After all, I’ve got yeeeeeeaaaars ahead of me. :wink:

[quote=“Stray Dog”]In the UK and the States, interestingly, 70 percent of ‘pet’ dogs are sterilized, which is 3 percent greater than what’s needed to level off a population. I Taiwan it’s 20 percent.

Also, in the UK, we have an infrastructure that works as far as stray management goes; bear in mind that strays in England are only stray for a very short time, as opposed to those here, because the procedures are in place to take the dog in before he or she can breed (if not desexed). Although over 100,000 strays were rounded up last year, only 7,000 were killed, for a large number of reasons, from the animals being too aggressive to them having no comfortable future. The number killed in the whole of England is far less than the number killed in Taipei City alone. Adopting from shelters is extremely popular, as it can be here, because, according to research, Taiwanese are many times more likely to adopt a stray than, say, an American.

I am certain that CNR can work better here than anywhere else, as we have everything we need in place already. We have very cheap veterinary care; we have a human population that does not want to see dogs killed; caring for and monitoring strays by members of the community is already a going concern; community dog caring is already popular (construction sites, neighbourhoods, building guards, universities, convenience stores, street vendors, etc.); the number of strays here is manageable; neutering of pets and strays is the only element that needs promoting. We also have a populace who adapt very quickly and follow rules very readily when they’re promoted and enforced properly (beetlenut-juice spitting, riding scooters side-saddle, wearing crash helmets, recycling, etc.). The research I linked to highlights many of these factors. We also have a country that desperately needs to raise its international profile as well as its treatment of animals. And the government is willing to throw money at the idea.

Also, the number of strays has only taken off with the rapid rate of urbanization here in the late 1980s and early 1990s. We are seeing a population explosion here - this has not been a long-term problem in Taiwan.

I think CNR (with education) can’t fail. If we neutered 70 percent (more!) of the stray and owned canine population, the number of pups would drop drastically - the effect that will have on the number of strays as well as the number being killed in shelters is obvious.

I’m just dashing out - let me know if I need to address any more points …[/quote]Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have one question. What, in your opinion, prevents the UK approach, which seems to be “CN but no R,” from being adopted here? Stray dogs are rounded up quickly in the UK. Here, you say that the government is “willing to throw money” at the problem. Why do you think they wouldn’t want to spend money on quick rounding up of strays, and appropriate shelters?

Why do you think it is necessary to use a method that has been proven to work for stray dogs in developing countries rather than one which has been proven to work in developed countries? From your point of view right now it makes sense to do CNR, because you don’t yet have the opportunity and resources to do things on a wider scale. But if the government started a wide-scale program, what reason would there still be for returning strays to the streets?

Sorry if this sounds belligerent. It’s not intended that way at all. I imagine that you would have to face such questions if trying to persuade policy-makers of the case for adopting CNR on a wide scale.

[quote=“joesax”]Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I have one question. What, in your opinion, prevents the UK approach, which seems to be “CN but no R,” from being adopted here? Stray dogs are rounded up quickly in the UK. Here, you say that the government is “willing to throw money” at the problem. Why do you think they wouldn’t want to spend money on quick rounding up of strays, and appropriate shelters?

Why do you think it is necessary to use a method that has been proven to work for stray dogs in developing countries rather than one which has been proven to work in developed countries? From your point of view right now it makes sense to do CNR, because you don’t yet have the opportunity and resources to do things on a wider scale. But if the government started a wide-scale program, what reason would there still be for returning strays to the streets?

Sorry if this sounds belligerent. It’s not intended that way at all. I imagine that you would have to face such questions if trying to persuade policy-makers of the case for adopting CNR on a wide scale.[/quote]

That’s exactly how I see these online debates: practice for when I have to present a solid proposal to the authorities, so I’m very happy to face more and more difficult questions (rather than just the same ones again and again :wink:).

The UK approach of catch and neuter works because there are fewer free-roaming dogs (116,000 caught last year, but you rarely see strays because every one is soon rounded up, so, essentially, the number at large at any time is small); more than 70 percent of them are already neutered; and almost all of the dogs, being first-generation strays, are easily approachable and caught.

By contrast, in Taiwan, the vast majority are intact; their numbers are far, far higher; and already many are feral or semi-feral, being at least third or fourth generation strays. It’s not so much a matter of whether the country is developed or not; it’s the characteristics of the stray population (if England and Taiwan could swap their strays, I think the UK approach could work here, if enough is done to promote adoption of abandoned animals and more thought before purchasing elsewhere). The UK, however, would have to change its approach, as many of the dogs would be uncatchable and most would be breeding.

The government here has been spending money on the quick rounding-up of strays, and shelters are improving and increasing in number, but it hasn’t worked, for the reasons I’ve mentioned above.

An interesting point is that 67 percent of the entire canine population must be neutered for the numbers to be controlled - that includes dogs kept as ‘pets’. We would need to make some inroads here before tackling a non-CNR approach to stray-animal control.

As mentioned in previous posts, because the majority of strays are intact, it is vital to increase the percentage of unbreedable free-roaming dogs, and the fastest way of doing that is to catch as many as we can, neuter them, and put them back. If we just remove them, we will be leaving the stray population as mostly intact animals (currently 80 percent intact) and the populations would explode.

Hope that answers your questions. :wink:

[quote=“joesax”]From your point of view right now it makes sense to do CNR, because you don’t yet have the opportunity and resources to do things on a wider scale. But if the government started a wide-scale program, what reason would there still be for returning strays to the streets?

Sorry if this sounds belligerent. It’s not intended that way at all. I imagine that you would have to face such questions if trying to persuade policy-makers of the case for adopting CNR on a wide scale.[/quote]

Excellent question, joe.

One reason you did not mention, is that CNR is also the most humane thing to do.

With the overwhelming amount of strays, a large-scale program without the “R” would inevitably result in culling most of the animals as they could not possibly be re-homed fast enough. Providing shelter for hundreds of thousands of dogs is not a feasible option either. Since most of the animals are intact here, we’d have to round em up quicker, too, and like Sean said, these dogs aren’t all easy to catch like the first generation strays in the UK. The man power required to round them up fast enough would be astronomical, then what would we do with all these dogs? Culling. In line with restoring Taiwan’s image in the international community in terms of animal welfare, CNR is the best approach because aiming to do what they do in the UK would end up looking like mass-culling. This is not what Taiwan needs to refresh its image in terms of animal welfare.

So we’re back to the question of culling, or CNR, even if what you asked about is not quite like mass culling, joe. But the same result would ensue. :wink:

The other factor, which is a key part of CNR, is stopping the imminent population explosion that will follow if the animals are not returned to the street, or rounded up quickly. Adopting a similar approach to dealing with this problem as the UK for example would be putting the kart in front of the horses, IMO, which would only lead to draining resources, and ongoing killing of animals on a massive scale.

I believe that the population needs to first be controlled through CNR backed up with an affective education campaign, and proper legislations; properly enforced legislations can generate a lot of funds to support the CNR program, too, ie: Mandatory pet registration fees, fines for abandoning pets, etc. Once this is achieved, it will make perfect sense to slowly ween out the “R” out of the equation. In time, and with proper education(the key to success) I think that it’s possible to achieve very much the same that is achieved in countries such as the UK.

Good answers, Stray Dog and bobepine. I see now that the current situation in Taiwan is quite different from the current situation in the UK, so the most practical (and humane) thing to do at least for the moment is to concentrate on promoting CNR as well as neutering of pets.

…because if they DOGS weren’t cleaning up the god awful mess that people throw out of their vehicles/ drop to the side as they nonchalantly walk along…[ much as I love Taiwan] this place would REEK a whole hell of a lot worse!

You can thank the Dogs for making Taiwan cleaner, far less rotting food in the street. Not too damn many garbage cans around now are there?

Dog poops break down after one rain fall…Finito…gone!!!

Can you the same of rotting food stuffs?..Takes a while longer

More for those who are interested:

[quote]The Science of Trap-Neuter-Release by Merritt Clifton
Presented to the Asia for Animals Conference, Hong Kong, September 3, 2003

On August 1, the city governor of Bangkok, Thailand,
ordered the eviction of street dogs from the central historical
district.

“Our city is not Calcutta,” the governor said.

The governor almost certainly did not understand that his
order, if enforced, would make Bangkok more like Calcutta.

What the governor said, yet did not know he said, was that
instead of street dogs he wanted Bangkok to have more rats, crows,
gulls, pigeons, feral cats, feral pigs, and monkeys running
amok–as occurs in Calcutta, where more than a century of poisoning
and electrocuting street dogs opened urban habitat up to them.

Compassionate Crusaders Trust founder Debasis Chakrabarti,
here in the audience, ended those abuses in Calcutta. The People
for Animals ABC street dog sterilization program that Debasis founded
in Calcutta has now made a good start toward controlling the problems
associated with street dogs by vaccinating and sterilizing them, and
treating them for mange.

Meanwhile, Calcutta and every other city that ever tried to
kill street dogs, including in the U.S., now has to deal with rats,
crows, gulls, pigeons, feral cats, and sometimes feral pigs and
monkeys, or raccoons, who occupy the same ecological niche as
monkeys in North America.

Each of these species is much harder to control.

All of these species are present in urban habitat anyway,
but in relatively low numbers. Their populations explode only when
dogs are not present to control them, partly by predation and
harassment, but mostly by consuming much of the available food.

So long as edible refuse remains abundant, the absence of
dogs will allow other urban wildlife to breed up to the carrying
capacity of the habitat, at equivalent biomass. That means ratios
of approximately one monkey or raccoon for each dog who has been
removed, or three cats, or anywhere from several dozen to several
hundred rats, gulls, crows, or pigeons.

So long as the habitat provides adequate food and cover for
animals, we will have whatever animals have evolved to survive in
the available niches–and I must mention that no one, not even the
Pied Piper, has yet found a way to rat-proof a city.

We cannot choose to not have animals as our neighbors,
because without them there would be habitat voids, and nature abhors
a void.

What we can choose is what kind of animals will become our
most visible neighbors.

Instead of learning to live with one easily tamed and
befriended species whose habits are well understood and whose
diseases are readily controlled and cured, the governor of Bangkok
said he wanted his city to be at much greater risk from leptospirosis
and bubonic plague, which are transmitted mainly by rat parasites.

He said he wanted Bangkok to be at much greater risk from
influenza and other corona viruses, transmitted mainly by birds,
with pigs as an intermediary for spreading mutated forms to humans.

He said wanted Bangkok to be at greater risk from the 90 or
more viruses, endemic among monkeys, which can severely infect
humans from a bite.

He also said he wanted Bangkok to have more poisonous snakes,
who in the absence of street dogs would do much more rat-catching.

That’s what the governor of Bangkok said, between the
lines–but I don’t think he meant it.

What he meant was that he wants a clean and healthy city.
What he did not understand is how to get there.

One option is to develop municipal sanitation so effective
that there is no longer any food for urban wildlife. That has worked
up to a point in much of the U.S., Europe, Singapore, Japan, and
here in Hong Kong–but only up to a point.

Even though the food waste remaining accessible to animals in
all of these places is insufficient to support many street dogs and
pigs, all of these places still have abundant feral cats, rats,
crows, and gulls. Hong Kong and parts of Japan also have nuisance
monkeys.

At best, the urban wildlife population can be reduced by
limiting the food supply. Realistically, it cannot be eliminated.

Another option is to try to kill all of the species that
become problematic. This simply does not work, because killing each
animal opens habitat to others, and even if you could kill all of
the birds and mammals, you would only leave more food available to
insects.

Cockroaches have already survived the Devonian extinction,
the Permian extinction and the extinction of the dinosaurs, as well
as the H-bomb testing at Bikini Atoll, so if you want to see the
real-life evolution of “The Cockroach That Ate Cincinnati,” just try
total extermination of all animal life.

The third option is learning to live with urban wildlife, by
replacing alienated, fearful, and dangerous animals with animals we
understand, who understand us.

This is what ABC is all about, as it is called in India, or
TNR, as it is called in the U.S. and Europe.

The idea of either ABC or TNR is to vaccinate and sterilize
at least 70% of the population of street dogs and feral cats, who
are the urban wildlife whose habits are most compatible with those of
humans, so as to maintain disease-free, stable or gradually
diminishing numbers of these animals in the available habitat niches.

In some places, as in much of the U.S., the object is to
allow native species who reproduce much more slowly, and are also
relatively non-problematic, to gradually reclaim habitat from which
they were extirpated decades ago by human development.

In most of Asia, however, the goal is to keep some highly
problematic and dangerous native species from occupying cities in
greater abundance, while minimizing the problems associated with
street dogs and feral cats.

The easiest way to reduce dog and cat problems is to replace
a short-lived and ever-reproducing population with a much more stable
population of animals who are living beyond their difficult
“teenaged” years and becoming assimilated into households as domestic
pets, while continuing to occupy their ecological niche.

Fortuitously, 70% is the effective threshold percentage of
animals of any species who must be vaccinated to prevent the spread
of most contagious diseases, including rabies, and also the
threshold percentage of dogs and cats who must be sterilized to
achieve population stability, with incremental population reduction
occurring as the percentage of sterilized animals increases.

70% is not the target for both vaccination and sterilization
by happy accident.

Sterilization is in effect surgically “vaccinating” animals
against reproduction. The goal is to reduce the vulnerability of the
potential host population to the condition, by reducing the
possibility of transmission to odds so slim that the condition cannot
replicate itself more rapidly than it dies out.

Many of the delegates to this conference have verified
through their own experience that 70% or somewhere close to it is the
magic number, among them Christine and Jeremy Townend of Help In
Suffering in Jaipur, India; Chinny Krishna of the Blue Cross of
India; and Pradeep Kumar Nath of the Visakha SPCA in
Visakhapatnam, India.

In the U.S., the numbers of dogs killed by animal shelters
began falling fast after the percentage of owned pet dogs who were
sterilized reached 67%, in the late 1980s.

The numbers of cats killed by U.S. animal control agencies
began a rapid drop after 1991, when the percentage of pet cats who
were sterilized reached about 85%, which equaled about 60% of the
estimated total U.S. cat population, including ferals.

Since then, the advent of neuter/return to control feral cat
numbers and increasing human acceptance of responsibility for outdoor
cats has blurred the distinction between pets and ferals. Of the
estimated 73 million “pet” cats in the U.S. now, 10 to 15 million
may in truth be fed ferals, who a decade ago would not have been
called “pets.”

During the past 10 years the number of cats who have been
sterilized by U.S. veterinarians each year has been approximately
double the number of pet cats assimilated into households, which
indicates that the U.S. feral cat population today is probably no
more than half what it was in 1991.

This is the same kind of transition that ABC or TNR programs
are already demonstrably accomplishing in Asia.

One strong indication of success, although often read
completely upside down and backward, is that the incidence of
dog-bite is remaining high in India and rapidly rising in China,
even though the incidence of rabies has been very sharply reduced in
both nations.

Free-roaming street dogs relatively seldom bite people,
unless they are rabid, because they are used to the constant
presence of strangers, and soon learn that any threatening behavior
toward humans can be fatal. Instead, they tend to run from any
menacing human approach.

Pet dogs, on the other hand, become highly protective of
the humans they regard as fellow pack members, and also protect the
humans’ property. Instead of running from a perceived threat, they
bite. Thus as more Indian dogs are treated as pets, they respond as
pets–and thus in India, where most dogs still run free, and in the
U.S., where most dogs are confined in yards or houses, the ratio of
humans to dog bites each year that require medical treatment is
identical, at 62 to 1.

Further, 70% of the bites requiring treatment in India are
verifiably committed by pets, according to one recent study. This
also parallels the U.S. experience.

Obviously we need to reduce the incidence of pet dogs biting,
but this is a sociological and behavioral problem, which has
established solutions in the form of appropriate education of both
dogs and humans, and is not to be confused with the issues
pertaining to ABC or TNR.

There will always be those who think killing animals is
cheaper than sterilizing animals, and therefore more appropriate for
developing nations, including much of Asia–even though killing
animals is demonstrably ineffective in doing anything other than
providing patronage employment of dogcatchers.

Some of the people who continue to advocate killing animals
will point to the huge numbers of animals killed by U.S. animal
control agencies throughout most of the 20th century, increasing
every year from 1895, when records were first kept, until circa
1970, when the U.S. was killing 115 dogs and cats per year per 1,000
human residents.

It must be pointed out that the focus of the U.S. animal care
and control strategy on exterminating homeless dogs and cats was an
enormous and very costly failure, costing us close to $2 billion a
year.

In truth, the U.S. really began to control our dog and cat
populations effectively only after gradually abandoning almost a
century of concerted effort to kill them, and turning instead to
high-volume dog and cat sterilization.

Since 1970 the U.S. has reduced population control killing of
dogs and cats by 87%, with a 75% drop since 1985.

What developing nations cannot afford is to spend as long as
we did making the same mistakes we did, before doing what has
finally begun to bring success.

Thank you.

Merritt Clifton
Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE[/quote]

And another (some great stats in here):

[quote]Pet Overpopulation and the 70% Rule
W. Marvin Mackie, D.V.M.

March 2003

In a front-page article of Animal People, October 2002, editor Merritt
Clifton mentioned the Fibonacci 70% rule. His writing piqued my interest to
the point that I asked him for further clarification, and then conducted
some research of my own. This concept is amazingly insightful into success
or failure as it relates to ultimate pet overpopulation and deserves to be
understood by all who are decision makers in the effort to bring it under
control. Leonardo Fibonacci, a preeminent mathematician of his time,
created a formula (model) in the early 1200’s relating to agricultural
productivity. Six centuries later, Louis Pasteur, while working on an early
vaccine for disease prevention, used the model to predict that 70% of a
susceptible population would have to be vaccinated in order to prevent an
epidemic of almost any contagious disease. Fibonacci’s 70% model is still
recognized as valid by leading public health authorities such as the World
Health Organization and the Center for Disease Control.

It is not a great leap to advance to the notion that pet sterilization is in
effect “vaccinating” against the disease of overpopulation. Using this
premise, we can say that 70% of the susceptible population (animals with
outside privileges) in a defined demographic area must be sterile in order
to affect the decrease in over-birthing that will result in a population
decrease within that area. The outcome at this 70% sterilization level is
that the transmission odds (successful breeding encounters) of the remaining
30% are reduced to the point that births then occur at a rate only great
enough to replace normal attrition.

Mr. Clifton cites data from two separate street dog sterilization programs
in India. One program saw a drop in animal population at 64% sterilized and
the second at 68%. In November 1998, I took part in a massive sterilization
effort on the Native American land called the Flathead Nation in western
Montana. It was a weeklong three-town effort in which we volunteer
veterinarians sterilized 1336 dogs and cats in six days. Actual census
numbers are probably unknown but the following years’ drop in shelter
turn-ins was profound. Clifton also reported that in the U.S., animal
control agencies reported a marked drop in the number of dog euthanasias in
the late 1980s, soon after the sterilization percentage of owned pet dogs
reached 67%. A rapid drop in cat euthanasias was noted when sterilization
of owned pet cats reached 85%. The “X” factor with cats lies in the number
of local ferals (street cats). Feral dogs are not nearly as plentiful and
therefore do not significantly impact the statistics.

If we follow the logical conclusions of the 70% rule, which is broadly
accepted by those who work in epidemiology, we arrive at some interesting
answers. For instance, those working so diligently to control pet
overpopulation in the greater Los Angeles and Orange county areas are
confounded by the fact that, in spite of their tireless efforts, they have
not seen the hoped for reduction in euthanasias. Unfortunately, the fertile
pet population was so large at the onset and the densely populated
two-county area was so great that they were unable to sterilize the numbers
required to reach the 70% mark. Mr. Clifton states emphatically that you
must reach 70% or FLUNK – there is no progress made with a “B” or “C” grade.
Quoting Mr. Clifton, “Fall short of 70%… and a sterilization…project will
get a big “F” for fecund animals, fearful people fleeing dog packs, feline
feces in gardens and children’s sandboxes and frothing-at-the-mouth critics
flinging allegations of fraud.”

Clearly, the 70% rule applies to any circumscribed area. It can be an
isolated town or community (e.g. the Native American communities of the
Flathead Nation) or the mere acreage of a feral cat colony. Generally, more
affluent areas can and do reach 70% (or better) pet sterilization and the
over-birthing problem ends in those areas. The more impoverished areas don’
t come close to 70% and the shelters serving those communities are the
recipients of the hapless victims of too many births and too few homes.
This plight is the major theme of Bob Christianson’s book, Save Our Strays,
CLC Publishing, 1996.

All too often, enthusiastic humane activists campaigning for pet control
projects inadvertently over-promise results to those who are providing
funding. When the government sources that provide “start up” funds as a
result of these promises, cannot be shown any statistical improvement, they
therefore conclude that their funding is not producing the desired results.
What can truly make an impact on reduced birthing is to target a reasonable
area and within a short period of time massively sterilize within it to
achieve the 70% goal. If the sterilization is accomplished within one
breeding cycle, the result will be immediate measurable results. The money
saved in reduced animal control and shelter overhead could easily support
the major funding needed for the initial sterilization effort. When the
70% sterilization goal is attained, both the funding and effort could be
reduced to a maintenance-only level. A mobile spay/neuter unit visiting
multiple sites one day each month is good for public relations, raises
awareness in the community and is certainly 100% helpful to the individual
family and their pet, but it cannot achieve the number of sterilizations
required in any one area to significantly reduce over-birthing.

The standard mantra, or battle cry, in the fight to curb overpopulation has
been “Spay or neuter your pet and save the lives of hundreds of innocent
animals.” Perhaps a more acceptable and understandable approach would be
to educate the pet owner to the fact that in addition to the health and
behavioral benefits, sterilization for their pet is quite analogous to a
vaccination for the unwanted pregnancies that contribute to over production
and unintended deaths by euthanasia. Spay/neuter saves lives by
eliminating killing.

I have presented this article on the Fibonacci 70% rule in order to broaden
your understanding of the task we face and to present a tangible way to
evaluate our efforts toward our goal. Because there are so many variables
in getting an accurate census of a given area, it may seem that 70% is
difficult to determine. For additional reading, I suggest the Animal People
News website, www.animalpeoplenews.org, where you can benefit from Merritt
Clifton’s excellent editorials, and the Best Friends Question and Answer
forum, bestfriends.org/nmhp/forumar … o24mc.html, where
Mr. Clifton succinctly and completely covers the issue in an answer to
another interested reader.

Reprint from The Pet Press, Los Angeles, CA., Vol. 4, Issue 6, Mar-April,
2003.
Also National Animal Control Association News, May/June 2004.

Dr. Mackie, the owner/director of two Animal Birth Control clinics in Los
Angeles, has been a spay/neuter specialist since 1976 and is nationally
recognized for his work in early age sterilization. He offers an extensive
surgical training program and a widely distributed video on his procedure.[/quote]

[quote]What developing nations cannot afford is to spend as long as
we did making the same mistakes we did, before doing what has
finally begun to bring success. [/quote]Excellent articles, Sean. Any chance you can provide links to your sources?

[quote=“bobepine”][quote]What developing nations cannot afford is to spend as long as
we did making the same mistakes we did, before doing what has
finally begun to bring success. [/quote]Excellent articles, Sean. Any chance you can provide links to your sources?[/quote]

You need to join the AAPN forum.

Those articles really spell it out Sean. Thanks. There’s sound science behind CNR, and it isn’t too hard to grasp the fundamentals though some continue to struggle like 3rd graders with long division.

This line for me really sums it up:

[quote]What we can choose is what kind of animals will become our
most visible neighbors. [/quote]

There was a great article in the Taipei Times last week: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2007/03/17/2003352644

[quote]
Eventually, she came upon the idea of founding the Taipei Feral Cat Protection Association last year and was happy when the Taipei City Government recently started handling the stray cat issue through the Trap-Neuter-Release (TNR) method.

TNR, which has been promoted as a humane alternative to euthanasia for managing and reducing stray cat populations in other countries, was introduced to Taiwan a couple of years ago by animal rights groups, and the city government initiated a trial TNR program last year in Da-an District with the help of Meetpets.com, a Web site dedicated to building a network for helping stray animals.

Instead of capturing stray cats and impounding them, the city government now traps and neuters them and returns them to where they were found.[/quote]

Cats today; dogs tomorrow. :wink:

I kinda like this thread.

The first two pages were pretty confusing, but once we got to the “stray pets” topics, it got informative.

I took a look at some of the adoption section pictures and many had pics of pure breeds or really cute puppies. Why were they abandoned? Didn’t they cost an arm and a leg to buy from the pet store or whatever?

I also have seen “kids” selling pretty rare breed puppies in night markets and not sure what to think.

I can’t care for pets but they do look very sweet and I’m tempted. But It’s strange people would abandon such cute dogs in mountains or streets or whatever. Honestly, I haven’t seen that many strays and the strays I’ve seen are adult dogs and not puppies or rare breeds.

just my observation and I hope this thread gets re-started with posts about “stray dogs.”

saw article on this issue and thought of this thread.

silive.com/news/advance/inde … xml&coll=1

Enlightment comes slowly, but the truth is evident, plain and simple. ALL PETS SOLD AT PET STORES SHOULD BE SPAYED/NEUTERED BEFORE BEING SOLD. If there is a measure that is feasible and politically viable -meaning, we can press for this, and it will have support- this is teh one. This way, even if we can’t prevent them from being dumped, at least we can prevent them from multiplying the problem.

From today’s Taipei Times:

[quote]
Forum tackles problem of abandoned animals
IGNORANCE: Veterinary experts said the high number of stray dogs was a not a result of breeding as many people seemed to think, but abandonment by the dogs’ owners By Angelica Oung
STAFF REPORTER
Tuesday, Feb 05, 2008, Page 2
The stray dog problem will never be resolved until the public learns to stop dumping unwanted pets, academics said at a public forum on animal welfare yesterday.
Most people assume that stray dogs are proliferating because the vast majority of strays are not neutered, said Fei Chang-yung (費昌勇), a professor at the department of veterinary medicine at National Taiwan University (NTU), which hosted the forum.
Debunking the myth, Fei said that a lack of food sources and the high incidence of canine distemper meant it would be hard for puppies to survive long past weaning without human assistance.
“It’s true that strays breed, but most puppies they give birth to simply starve or die of illness,” he said. "Most new strays are not born homeless but are abandoned."
To back up his claim, Fei pointed to research conducted by the Council of Agriculture (COA) showing that 16 percent of stray dogs in the country tested positive for rabies antibodies – a sign that they had been inoculated against rabies at some point.
"We need to take care of the problem at the source – - abandoned pets," Fei said. “Until that is done, all secondary efforts to control the stray dog population, including euthanization, TNR [trap, neuter and release] and rehoming will fail.”
“We have gone from having no laws to enforce to having unenforced laws,” veterinary science professor Yeh Li-son (葉力森) said.
Yeh was referring to animal welfare statutes that call for pet animals to be registered and chipped, a measure which, if enforced, could lower the rate of abandoned pets.
[/quote]

More at: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/02/05/2003400320

When I have time, I have many arguments contrary to this article. Even if this vet’s beliefs were true, change the problem from ‘stray animals’ to ‘unwanted animals’ and you’ll see that there would still be a huge problem, perhaps even greater, as we would head towards the rate of shelter relinquishment that is so acceptable in the States now. Currently, more than 3 million unwanted dogs are killed in shelters each year in the US. But you see few strays. Time for hoorays yet?

More on this later.

Uhm hey…progress?