I meant palistinians living within the state of Isreal 
Speaking of Israel and Syria
[quote]Israel told the United States it fears the outcome of regime change in Syria.
At a strategic-dialogue meeting this week among senior officials, Israel laid out for the United States three scenarios if Bashar Assad is toppled: chaos, an Islamist regime or another strongman from Assad
Tough. Israel will deal with something when we get through topplling Assad. Screw stability. Letâs take that f***er out.
Whatâs your question Spook? mod note: taunt removed and poster suggested to be the like the mountain wind and chill.
[quote=âfred smithâ]Tough. Israel will deal with something when we get through topplling Assad. Screw stability. Letâs take that f***er out.
Whatâs your question Spook? mod note: taunt removed and poster suggested to be the like the mountain wind and chill.[/quote]
Do you support the establishment of an independent Palestinian state beside Israel if it agrees to live in peace?
Is there any Bush supporter here beside Tigerman who supports the establishment of an independent Palestinian state next to Israel if it agrees to peaceful co-existence?
Are you starting to get the drift here, Tigerman? 
Support it, sure. Believe it is possible, emm, errr, uhhmmm
Support it? yes, assuming that said state manages to demonstrate some ability to minimize Hamas and other similar organizations.
note: Iâm not exactly a hard core Bush supporter but for the most part I have been supportive concerning middle eastern affairs
Support it, sure. Believe it is possible, emm, errr, uhhmmm[/quote]
Does your answer mean that if the Bush administration actually tried to establish a Palestinian state in the near future you would support its efforts or are your reservations too great to allow you to support it?
Originally supported a one-state solution, but gradually came around to realizing that itâs not possible.
At this point, donât think that even a two-state peaceful co-existence is likely for the foresseable future.
In justice to the Palestinians, a state based roughly on the Camp David accords- then, if Hamas & co. canât be stopped, the Israelis can put up their security wall and let the Palestinians rot until they get the situation under control.
No.
What do you mean?
Why would anyone be opposed to an independent and sovereign Palestinian somewhat democratic state coexisting peacefully with Israel?
[quote=âTigermanâ]
Why would anyone be opposed to an independent and sovereign Palestinian somewhat democratic state coexisting peacefully with Israel?[/quote]
Youâre asking the wrong person.
If you really want to know the answer to that question ask Fred Smith.
And if âyou guysâ are really serious about Palestinian statehood whatâs stopping you? I donât see any grass growing under your feet in Iraq but detect no life whatsoever beyond the rhetoric about Palestinian self-determination.
Support it, sure. Believe it is possible, emm, errr, uhhmmm[/quote]
Does your answer mean that if the Bush administration actually tried to establish a Palestinian state in the near future you would support its efforts or are your reservations too great to allow you to support it?[/quote]
I think this is a fair question spook. Of course Iâd like to see it. But right now, no I wouldnât support it. Not while Hamas is running political campaigns and backing candidates like this:
[quote]GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas has chosen a mother of three sons who died fighting Israel to run for Palestinian parliament in a poll where the Islamic militant group is expected to mount a serious challenge to President Mahmoud Abbasâs Fatah party.
Mariam Farhat, widely seen as an icon of the Palestinian uprising, will join a slate of male Hamas leaders to contest a legislative election due in January in which Hamas, sworn to Israelâs destruction, is taking part for the first time.
Farhat, 56, could give an added boost to Hamas as she has strong militant credentials, including an appearance â carrying a gun â in a video in which she advised one of her sons, Mohammed, on tactics before he attacked a Jewish settlement.
Mohammed, 17, killed five Israelis before he was gunned down in the 2002 assault in the occupied Gaza Strip.
Farhatâs eldest son, Nidal, was killed in 2003 as he was preparing for a separate attack. A third son, Rawad, died earlier this year in an Israeli air strike on his car, which was laden with rockets. Three other sons are still alive.
âI am pleased that Hamas trusted me and I declare I will be at the service of my movement,â Farhat, popularly known as Umm Nidal and regarded by Palestinians as a âmother of martyrs,â said as she sat beneath a mural of her dead sons.
Hamasâs choice of Farhat, seen by Palestinian analysts as a sure vote-winner, appeared to signal just how serious the group is in its bid to challenge Fatahâs traditional dominance.[/quote]
[quote]Rummy exit expected; Lieberman eyed for job
BY THOMAS M. DEFRANK and KENNETH R. BAZINET
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
WASHINGTON - White House officials are telling associates they expect Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to quit early next year, once a new government is formed in Iraq, sources said yesterday.
Rumsfeldâs deputy, Gordon England, is the inside contender to replace him, but thereâs also speculation that Sen. Joe Lieberman - a Democrat who ran against Bush-Cheney in the 2000 election - might become top guy at the Pentagon.
Thatâs not as farfetched as it might first appear.
The Daily News has learned that the White House considered Lieberman for the UN ambassadorâs job last year before giving the post to John Bolton, a Bush adviser said.
[/quote]
nydailynews.com/front/story/ ⌠6984c.html
Heâd be a fool to take or leave it.
And from another source this morningâŚlol
[quote]Rumsfeld says âI have no plans to retireâ
Thu Dec 8, 2005 1:33 PM
By Will Dunham
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the craftsman of U.S. Iraq war strategy and a magnet for criticism, said on Thursday he had no plans to retire from the post more than 2-1/2 years into the conflict.
âThose reports have been flying around since about four months after I assumed my post in 2001,â Rumsfeld, 73, told reporters on Capitol Hill when asked about a New York Post report that White House officials are telling associates they expect him to quit early next year.
âI have no plans to retire,â added Rumsfeld, who has been criticized over the conduct of the Iraq and the treatment of detainees in U.S. military custody.
The New York Post reported that Gordon England, the No. 2 official at the Pentagon, was the âinside contenderâ to replace Rumsfeld, but that Sen. Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut Democrat, also was a possibility.
In fact, the Defense Department said Rumsfeld held an early-morning meeting at the Pentagon on Thursday with Lieberman. The senatorâs views of the Iraq war, in contrast with many other Democrats, have been quoted approvingly in recent speeches by President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld himself."
Reuters[/quote]
[quote=âjdsmithâ]I think this is a fair question spook. Of course Iâd like to see it. But right now, no I wouldnât support it. Not while Hamas is running political campaigns and backing candidates like this:
[quote]GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas has chosen a mother of three sons who died fighting Israel to run for Palestinian parliament in a poll where the Islamic militant group is expected to mount a serious challenge to President Mahmoud Abbasâs Fatah party.
Mariam Farhat, widely seen as an icon of the Palestinian uprising, will join a slate of male Hamas leaders to contest a legislative election due in January in which Hamas, sworn to Israelâs destruction, is taking part for the first time.[/quote][/quote]
Ainât democracy a bitch?
Elsewhere at this moment Egyptâs moving towards democracy, but doing so mean that the Islamists will take power⌠so even after all these years, go slow is the rule there as well. And Turkeyâs elected an Islamic party to govern, so its gotta be almost promised admission to the EU just to encourage their better aspirations and keep the less desireable elements in check.
Wasnât it Kissinger who said, âJust because some unwashed banana-picker has chosen to elect a Marxist government doesnât mean that the US has to live with it?â Of course, he was talking about Latin America, but still, itâs funny how little things have changed in this new, great push towards democracy in the Middle East.
I much prefer de Tocqueville: a tottering regime is never more endangered than when it begins to reform; and, the ills of democracy are corrected by still more democracy. Give these bastards a finger-hold and theyâll pry open Pandoraâs box; throw the door wide openâmaking sure that it canât be instantly slammed shut againâand theyâll be a spent force in ten yearsâ time. Even the best, mass, popular movements burn out after two terms in power: DPP, Solidarity, the ANCâŚ
Sorry Spook:
Had not looked at this thread for a while. Any time Israel, Jews, etc. come up with you, I apologize but my will to type⌠yawn⌠zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz⌠oh sorry, did I doze off?
I would support a two-state solution but I have been instructed by Zionist organizations that fund my Champagne account that this would not be in my best, er that is in the best interests of democracy and regional stability. I had initially thought it was a good idea until my banker called and asked me how I would like a lower return rate on my investments. Anyway, like I said, after he explained to me, er the costs involved, I saw the light and therefore am against a two-state solution because of the valuable desert land that lies between the Jordan River and the heights of the West Bank plateau. Admittedly it is desert now, but I am completely convinced that it will have lucrative oil deposits or be the source of rich farmland some day and that wanting to hang on to this area could not be for security reasons whatsoever. The very idea is ludicrous! Er but donât tell my banker or Champagne fund supporters that I said this to you. They watch me constantly, monitor everything I say, do and type. I would not want to piss them off. I could lose my job, my reputation, my friends⌠They are everywhere. Watching. Waiting. Controlling.
[quote=âfred smithâ]Sorry Spook:
Had not looked at this thread for a while. Any time Israel, Jews, etc. come up with you, I apologize but my will to type⌠yawn⌠zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz⌠oh sorry, did I doze off?
I would support a two-state solution but I have been instructed by Zionist organizations that fund my Champagne account that this would not be in my best, er that is in the best interests of democracy and regional stability. I had initially thought it was a good idea until my banker called and asked me how I would like a lower return rate on my investments. Anyway, like I said, after he explained to me, er the costs involved, I saw the light and therefore am against a two-state solution because of the valuable desert land that lies between the Jordan River and the heights of the West Bank plateau. Admittedly it is desert now, but I am completely convinced that it will have lucrative oil deposits or be the source of rich farmland some day and that wanting to hang on to this area could not be for security reasons whatsoever. The very idea is ludicrous! Er but donât tell my banker or Champagne fund supporters that I said this to you. They watch me constantly, monitor everything I say, do and type. I would not want to piss them off. I could lose my job, my reputation, my friends⌠They are everywhere. Watching. Waiting. Controlling.[/quote]
You sound like Condoleeza Rice explaining Bush administration policy on torture to the Europeans.
How about this? Just tap your forehead once with your right index finger if you agree with Tigerman and President Bush that a Palestinian state should be established next to Israel in the near future.
Condy explains torture to the Europeans. To Angela Merkel.
That sounds like the beginning of a sick BDSM story somewhere on the internet. 
Always hate to interrupt these little circles, but the devil is in the details:
Support for two-state solution: does that include Palestinian East Jerusalem ?
Palestinians insist on it; Sharon says no.
Right of return? Obviously impossible if it covers everyone in refugee camps- how about compensation?- this means you, America, since youâre subsidizing Israeli settlements anyway.
And what happens to the rest of the Palestinians- integration into the Arab countries theyâre already living in?- all supporters of the Cedar Revolution, try making that suggestion in Lebanon- see how long you survive 
Dismantling of most West Bank settlements?
Israeli control over border with Jordan?