Survey Says: Foreign Brides Should Be Restricted

Both China Post and Taipei Times report the results of a new survey by Shih Hsin University. I’m sure that the results weren’t at all influenced by the barrage of press coverage on the problems of foreign brides the last couple of months. Nearly 59.3% wanted restrictions on the numbers of foreign brides allowed. 20% had “unfriendly” attitudes towards spouses from abroad. But it wasn’t all bad news this time:

From Hsia Hsiao-Chuan, Shih Hsin University sociologist:

James Hsueh, professor of sociology, NTU:

Looks like favoring male births has come back to bite.

In other news, Taipei Times reports that a draft law would expand rights, even for foreigners. Among the goodies for foreigners, it would make it easier for professionals to work in Taiwan, and give permanent residency to those making a certain amount of investment (amount not specified). Foreigners would also have the right to due process before being deported and be allowed to claim political asylum. However, this is part of the larger draft bill allowing referendums and gay marriage rights, so it’s a long shot getting this passed anytime soon.

Back on the editorial page, the Taipei Times has not one but two editorials on the dangers of foreign brides. One starts out talking about sham marriages but gives the impression that all such marriages are bad news. The other focuses on the dangers posed by mainland spounses.

[quote=“jlick”]Both China Post and Taipei Times report the results of a new survey by Shih Hsin University. I’m sure that the results weren’t at all influenced by the barrage of press coverage on the problems of foreign brides the last couple of months. Nearly 59.3% wanted restrictions on the numbers of foreign brides allowed. 20% had “unfriendly” attitudes towards spouses from abroad. But it wasn’t all bad news this time:

From Hsia Hsiao-Chuan, Shih Hsin University sociologist:

James Hsueh, professor of sociology, NTU:

Looks like favoring male births has come back to bite.

[/quote]

How exactly do you favor a birth apart from aborting a girl when woman gets pregnant until such time a boy is concieved?

[quote=“TNT”]
How exactly do you favor a birth apart from aborting a girl when woman gets pregnant until such time a boy is concieved?[/quote]

Well that’s one way. All you need is ultrasound technology for that. There’s also abandonment of female babies after birth, not giving medical care to girls or other neglect, and the modern solution of selective sex screening when doing in-vitro fertilization. I’ve only read about this being done in India and PRC, so I’m not sure what the favored methods are here. They are also having the problem where there’s not enough wives to go around.

I don’t know, but isn’t the gender balance more off in China than in Taiwan?
-If so, the importing of Chinese women will worsen the situation for the poor Chinese men. Where are they going to get their wives from?

[quote=“X3M”]I don’t know, but isn’t the gender balance more off in China than in Taiwan?
-If so, the importing of Chinese women will worsen the situation for the poor Chinese men. Where are they going to get their wives from?[/quote]

I read somewhere once that historically war was more likely when there was too little food or too many males.

Not 15 percent. Probably meant 1.5 percent.

I think it’s obvious that Taiwan DOES have a problem with foreign brides. As most of us are aware many, perhaps most, of these marriages are fake and/or mercenary in nature. While it would be nice (for me!) if Taiwan could be a more open society, this isn’t going to happen by importing hookers. And the security problem is huge–what if Taiwan’s organized crime becomes like Guangdong’s?

I see from the front page of today’s China Post that the imported prostitute problem is still being blamed on the girls. This of course will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future. I quote: “…as many mainland women use the marriages as a coverup for prostitution on the island.” chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp?ID=42865&GRP=A

I think, however, the predictable and monotonous laying of blame at the feet of the girls involved is mostly the work of the English language press, which doesn’t seem to have any real journalists covering this issue. In the Chinese press questions are being asked about who is running the prostitution rings, and the incredible demand for prostitutes in Taiwan.

If the simple-minded claptrap being peddled by the English language papers here was correct, the problem could be sorted instantly - all those innocent husbands would shop their wives immediately. This of course is not happening. I wonder why ?

Yeah please give us the link to your bollocks claim.

Can you give more details on the draft proposal please. In particular the rights of foreign spouses ie the right to appeal before deportation etc
Which party has decided to press for this change. Was this a DPP or KMT idea ? When will it become law or is it likely to become law. Please give the exact draft proposal and when is it being proposed ?

fenlander, This thread was started almost three years ago. Since nothing much has been heard since then it’s probably a dead issue.

oh ok sorry. Didn’t look at the dates. Thanks anyway.

More of the same, say one thing then do the opposite.
Considering that Chen Shui Bien no longer has the ability to pay his phone bill, I view his statements in the Taipei Times today with a skepticism.

[quote]President promises to protect the rights of foreign spouses
BROTHERS AND SISTERS: Chen Shui-bian said that foreign spouses were part of the greater Taiwanese family and that it was his administration’s duty to do all it could for them
By Ko Shu-ling
Noting that the number of immigrants has grown steadily over the years, President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) yesterday vowed to protect the human rights of foreign spouses.

[/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003341306

Just a couple of observations from someone that has spent more time in Vietnam than Taiwan…

In 2001 I remember going to a village in Ben Tre province in Vietnam. Its a rather poor province in the south. A friend told me that most of the girls in this particular village had gone to Taiwan for marriage or were awaiting paperwork. I met two of them and had some coffee with them. They were quite interested to hear from me what Taiwan was really like. (I’d been coming here since 1994 for business, but had never lived here at that stage, so couldn’t really answer them.)

I would say that most such girls are just naive and innocent. The ones I met certainly weren’t bar girls/hookers etc. Actually many TW men insist of virginity tests before marriage anyway. They did have the idea that once in Taiwan they could send money back to their family. This was just their culture as elsewhere in Asia and they would have expected to do the same had they married well in Vietnam.

The girls I met didn’t really like the idea of living in Taiwan - and the stories they’d heard hadn’t encouraged them. Terrible food, strange language, a long way from their families. But they seemed sincere in wanting to give it their best shot and thought overall it was worth it. This village had a particularly large number of girls going to Taiwan because of some links through an agent there. I got the impression it was “slash and burn” - once all the nice girls had been sent, the agent would focus on another village. Or at least the process was they’d keep sending them until the first bad experience - then move to another village. So far the feedback to this village was positive.

I went to the TECO in Saigon last week. It was quite a sight to see so many young women there. A few TW men had pitched up to, and the wives-to-be were doing their best with their shakey Chinese to communicate with them. Most of the men were at least 10 years older. One was an old chap on crutches, another was in a wheelchair. I suppose these were the good guys - because at least they’d made the effort to come to the TECO and sit with their girl whilst the paperwork was being processed.

Anyway, it really was not a comfortable sight.

Difficult to generalise, but when thing go wrong its probably six of one and half a dozen of the other. But if I had to come off the fence, my sympathy would be more with the Vietnamese than the Taiwanese. The “hookers” of Vietnam have more lucrative markets to address - they have visa free access to Singapore nowadays, and many go there or Cambodia. Taiwan is not an attractive option for them.

In Taiwan I feel there is a general contempt for Vietnam - though with recent WTO entry and the APEC summit perhaps this is changing. Anyway until now I’ve never met anyone here who has a kind word to say about the place. When accompanying a Taiwanese (female) business friend to Vietnam a couple of years back she made the bizarre comment “the girls here are all like dolls. In Taiwan we feel there is nothing inside - they just care about the way they look”. I think this is only a couple of steps away from the “they are all hookers” prejudice. People who have never been there are remarkably opinionated - everyone will know of a maid that ran away or a factory worker that stole from the company. The country is looked down upon and is seen as poor and backward. At best many see VN as a useful source of cheap labour - be it maids in Taiwan or factories in VN. Taiwanese bosses in Vietnam are the most hated of foreign bosses from what I can tell.

Certainly there is little respect for the Vietnamese amongst the Taiwanese bosses I’ve met in Vietnam. One TW factory owner I met was proud of having lived in Vietnam for 7 years without learning a single word of Vietnamese. “Why should I? Its a stupid language.” Many Taiwanese bosses see workers as little more than a factor of production - and the efficient control of costs of production has been a reason for Taiwan’s past manufacturing success. Aging men who have been part of this “success” story seem respond to the promotion of Vietnamese girls in the same way they would the latest massage chair. They scan the details - age, weight, shape etc in the same way they would any other commodity. On arrival they apply their warped value system to their newly purchased wife. This analysis may seem rather harsh - but Vietnamese culture is different and I’m sure many of them get a shock when their wife doesn’t perform to specification. And of course, when it does go wrong, the Vietnamese girl must have done something wrong - afterall, she’s not Taiwanese and doesn’t fit into society.

Update:

More men choosing foreign spouses

I recently read that in 2005, 1 in 5 brides were imported (mostly Chinese or SE Asian) so that’s down a bit from 2003, but still a large proportion.

So 6.6% of foreign spouses are male, huh? That would be 24,000 of us.

As someone with more than a little familiarity with the Viet Namese and their culture, I would like to applaud LondonBoys very appropriate post:

[quote]Just a couple of observations from someone that has spent more time in Vietnam than Taiwan…

In 2001 I remember going to a village in Ben Tre province in Vietnam. Its a rather poor province in the south. A friend told me that most of the girls in this particular village had gone to Taiwan for marriage or were awaiting paperwork. I met two of them and had some coffee with them. They were quite interested to hear from me what Taiwan was really like. (I’d been coming here since 1994 for business, but had never lived here at that stage, so couldn’t really answer them.)

I would say that most such girls are just naive and innocent. The ones I met certainly weren’t bar girls/hookers etc. Actually many TW men insist of virginity tests before marriage anyway. They did have the idea that once in Taiwan they could send money back to their family. This was just their culture as elsewhere in Asia and they would have expected to do the same had they married well in Vietnam.

The girls I met didn’t really like the idea of living in Taiwan - and the stories they’d heard hadn’t encouraged them. Terrible food, strange language, a long way from their families. But they seemed sincere in wanting to give it their best shot and thought overall it was worth it. This village had a particularly large number of girls going to Taiwan because of some links through an agent there. I got the impression it was “slash and burn” - once all the nice girls had been sent, the agent would focus on another village. Or at least the process was they’d keep sending them until the first bad experience - then move to another village. So far the feedback to this village was positive.

I went to the TECO in Saigon last week. It was quite a sight to see so many young women there. A few TW men had pitched up to, and the wives-to-be were doing their best with their shakey Chinese to communicate with them. Most of the men were at least 10 years older. One was an old chap on crutches, another was in a wheelchair. I suppose these were the good guys - because at least they’d made the effort to come to the TECO and sit with their girl whilst the paperwork was being processed.

Anyway, it really was not a comfortable sight.

Difficult to generalize, but when thing go wrong its probably six of one and half a dozen of the other. But if I had to come off the fence, my sympathy would be more with the Vietnamese than the Taiwanese. The “hookers” of Vietnam have more lucrative markets to address - they have visa free access to Singapore nowadays, and many go there or Cambodia. Taiwan is not an attractive option for them.

In Taiwan I feel there is a general contempt for Vietnam - though with recent WTO entry and the APEC summit perhaps this is changing. Anyway until now I’ve never met anyone here who has a kind word to say about the place. When accompanying a Taiwanese (female) business friend to Vietnam a couple of years back she made the bizarre comment “the girls here are all like dolls. In Taiwan we feel there is nothing inside - they just care about the way they look”. I think this is only a couple of steps away from the “they are all hookers” prejudice. People who have never been there are remarkably opinionated - everyone will know of a maid that ran away or a factory worker that stole from the company. The country is looked down upon and is seen as poor and backward. At best many see VN as a useful source of cheap labour - be it maids in Taiwan or factories in VN. Taiwanese bosses in Vietnam are the most hated of foreign bosses from what I can tell.

Certainly there is little respect for the Vietnamese amongst the Taiwanese bosses I’ve met in Vietnam. One TW factory owner I met was proud of having lived in Vietnam for 7 years without learning a single word of Vietnamese. “Why should I? Its a stupid language.” Many Taiwanese bosses see workers as little more than a factor of production - and the efficient control of costs of production has been a reason for Taiwan’s past manufacturing success. Aging men who have been part of this “success” story seem respond to the promotion of Vietnamese girls in the same way they would the latest massage chair. They scan the details - age, weight, shape etc in the same way they would any other commodity. On arrival they apply their warped value system to their newly purchased wife. This analysis may seem rather harsh - but Vietnamese culture is different and I’m sure many of them get a shock when their wife doesn’t perform to specification. And of course, when it does go wrong, the Vietnamese girl must have done something wrong - after all, she’s not Taiwanese and doesn’t fit into society.[/quote]

Bravo!

Personally, I’m strongly opposed to restricting such immigration. Without it, I wouldn’t exist. :smiley:

DB -
Did you get married here on the island or back in the USA?

I freely admit that the only reason I’m came here was to get married. And, of course, ‘for the waters.’

This sounds eerily familiar.

Taiwan’s vast percentage of foreign brides has always seemed to me one of the most remarkable and under-reported aspects of its culture. Here we have a “triumph” of the patriarchy, the men here aren’t content to have second wives on the side, they’ve also gone out an opened the gates to a vast selection of foreign first wives. This of course means that they have condemned many of their own daughters to spinsterhood, statistically. But perhaps their answer is to turn them into second wives, or simply abort them. (again, statistics don’t lie). They then follow up with a “triumph” of capitalism and simply fill the supply from abroad, little caring about the men in Vietnam or China who will go without wives. (of course, Taiwan’s lonely spinsters wouldn’t touch them).

Here, at a notary. We’ll do the big public versions later, both here and in either the US or Mexico, with a honeymoon in Mexico. :sunglasses:

Back to the topic, one of the reasons this article caught my eye is that I’m currently editing a book on cross-border marriage, and some of it is about the experiences of foreign brides in Taiwan. It has really raised my awareness of the difficulties many of them face. Reading such research really teaches one not to view them in a simple-minded fashion, e.g., like the mainstream opinion of them as a commodity. These are real, feeling people who want to find a better life and help their families economically, and it is difficult for them to leave their homes and families to come here for marriage. They need our help and support, not prejudice.

In the long run, Taiwan may be culturally enriched through such exchange. And we’ll probably have a lot more good SE Asian food available, too!