I’ve been told the fascination with Hitler/ Nazi imagery is because Hitler is percieved to be " a strong leader". I’d take this to be a sign of political immaturity as well as selective ignorance, where the Maximum Leader is the be-all end-all of a nation’s self image.
Taiwan is a democracy now, but old habits die hard. People still expect the government to do everything for them, and the KMT annually humps CCK’s dead leg in memory of “the good old days” when the old bastard called all the (gun)shots and all the people had to do was obey. Hell, the same argument can be made about the TSU and their Lee Teng-hui fixation.
The country still has a way to go before it realizes good government is not built on the shoulders of a single “sovereign” who will lead by moral/military might (in the traditional Confucian way of thinking).
Also, don’t forget that Old Chiang Kai-shek never met a Nazi he didn’t like; he modeled his Blue Shirt secret police on Hitler’s Brown Shirts (I guess brown was sooooo “last season” when he made the decision).
I don’t think Anti-Semitism is a big problem in Asia. And Buddist do really have claim over the symbol.
If I saw a shirt in Asia that went along the lines of “Jews are evil and here is a Swastika to reaffirm my hatred of undesirables, such as Jews” I would have issues with that.
For the most part ROC citizens are barely aware of the Jewish community in the world. They usually know about the past alliance between ROC and Nazi Germany.
Also they idealize the pros of Nazi regime, like ultra Nationalism and industrialization that got Germany out of the quagmire of WWI. Not unlike the current political quagmire ROC finds itself in right now.
But for the most part they are like the Osama Bin Laden Bobble heads, or the Saddam pin cushion I see in NYC now.
A few days ago I met a grandmother of a boy I know. He tends to be a little terrorist. When I looked at her, I tried my best not to look surprised. She was wearing a Nazi helmet. Then I noticed the wide rim around it which protects the face from direct sunlight. Could it be that the he helmets are so popular because it helps to keep a fair complexion which seems to be another obsession in Taiwan. Skin lightners are very popular here and probably affects your status.
[quote=“t.ukyo”]Some gems from my deep conversations with random people who I had known for a couple of minutes by the time they asked their questions.
Being a German:
It is nice that you know Hitler.
No, I don’t like Hitler.
No, Germans don’t like Hitler and he is not a hero there.
[/quote]
What’s with all the Hitler stuff around here? I’ve seen quite a few scooter riders wearing helmets in the style of those used by Germany in WWII, and I’m not just randomly guessing – a couple of them have had official Nazi style swastika stickers plastered on the sides. I’ve seen the same sticker on a parked scooter. Then there are the two or three restaurants/bars that have been mentioned as having Nazi themes (including the “Hitler” bar that Poagao has a photo of on his website).
Ultranationalism is a pro? Hey, pal, nationalism got Germany into World War One and it got it into World War Two, and both those wars brought devastation to Germany and its people.
I think AC is right when he says it’s mainly about ignorance. Plus, Nazi and Fascist symbolism just looks so “way cool”. That’s why that commie Che Guavera is such a popular T-shirt icon among kids back in the West - pot-smoking American college kids are generally ignorant about the damage Leninist-Marxism did to Latin America, and besides, that handsome Argentine hippie Jesus looks so fucking cool, man, just like a revolutionary Bob Marley or somethin’. I mean, there’s a reason why kids wear Che T-shirts but nobody wears Nikita Kruschev T-shirts. When did Nikita ever look cool?
Is there any difference between that Hiotler Cafe or whatever it was and the two Mao’s Place restaurants I saw in Melbourne (with smiling red Chairman Mao pictures decorating the place)?
[color=black]Militantism/politicantism is a very serious personality disorder
generally induced in weak personalities by brainwashing
from governments’ war and peace propaganda.
What ignorance? Does it really matter what the symbol USED to symbolize? In case anyone missed it, the war is over, the Nazis lost and the symbol only has negative connotations if you are ignorant enough to allow the past to control your life - especially if you weren’t even ALIVE when Hitler was in power. Jeeze…
whatever happened to the Mao Coffee shop in Taipei?
It’s over behind the Breeze Center, but it seems like it’s closed down.
I’ve never been, but it looks intriguing.
Do you really imagine that Nazis and their ideology vanished like a puff of smoke the day Germany surrendered? Man, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.
Do you really imagine that Nazis and their ideology vanished like a puff of smoke the day Germany surrendered? Man, you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.[/quote]
No I don’t…but do you really believe there are Taiwanese Nazis…if so, then it is you that might be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land
Vannyel wrote:[quote] In case anyone missed it, the war is over, the Nazis lost and the symbol only has negative connotations if you are ignorant enough to allow the past to control your life - especially if you weren’t even ALIVE when Hitler was in power. Jeeze…
[/quote]
Wow…I murdered somebody last week, doesn’t matter; it happened in the past and ignorance is bliss!
Those who cannot remeber the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
-Elbert Hubbard
[quote=“pjdrib”]Vannyel wrote:[quote] In case anyone missed it, the war is over, the Nazis lost and the symbol only has negative connotations if you are ignorant enough to allow the past to control your life - especially if you weren’t even ALIVE when Hitler was in power. Jeeze…
[/quote]
Wow…I murdered somebody last week, doesn’t matter; it happened in the past and ignorance is bliss!
Those who cannot remeber the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
-Elbert Hubbard[/quote]
Those that live in the past never experience life - Vannyel :raspberry:
The ‘prison’ cafe in Hsimenting with all the fucked-up looking mannequins hanging outside the building have not only pictures of Skrewdriver (notorious white power hardcore punk band) and their roadies, but also plentiful posters of holocaust victims and jailhouse porn. It’s supposed to ‘add to the atmosphere’, I needed to get a capture of the place to show my friends. My Chinese-Austrian friend didn’t find it quite as amusing.
Glorifying evil encourages evil. If you think Stalin was just a little misguided or that Dr Mengele’s experiments were OK or that ‘ethnic cleansing’ doesn’t really matter you are seriously allowing yourself to become blinded to discrimination that may effect you someday.
Advertising using Nazism as a theme or a Prison theme restaurant smacks of ignorance and cultural insensitivity on a grand scale. No person or organization should use persons or ideals that glorify pain, murder and torture and genocide for commercial gain.
Yes, guilty of imposing a western-judeo-christian sensitive-new-age sort of judgement on an sad cultural anomaly here.
Or, we could have a national chain of “Happy 228 Restaurants” were you get to shoot a cigarette seller and enjoy stinky tofu, or a “Imperial Japanese Bayonetting Fun Park” at Hualien. You either OK this sort of thing or deny it has a place in a humane society.
[quote=“pjdrib”]Glorifying evil encourages evil. If you think Stalin was just a little misguided or that Dr Mengele’s experiments were OK or that ‘ethnic cleansing’ doesn’t really matter you are seriously allowing yourself to become blinded to discrimination that may effect you someday.
Advertising using Nazism as a theme or a Prison theme restaurant smacks of ignorance and cultural insensitivity on a grand scale. No person or organization should use persons or ideals that glorify pain, murder and torture and genocide for commercial gain.
Yes, guilty of imposing a western-judeo-christian sensitive-new-age sort of judgement on an sad cultural anomaly here.
Or, we could have a national chain of “Happy 228 Restaurants” were you get to shoot a cigarette seller and enjoy stinky tofu, or a “Imperial Japanese Bayonetting Fun Park” at Hualian. You either OK this sort of thing or deny it has a place in a humane society.[/quote]
So there is a restaurant in Taiwan where you sit around in Nazi uniforms torturing Jews? Or is a theme park in southern Taiwan where you get to play doctor on Jews? I don’t think so.
So how exactly is someone putting a decal on a helmet or scooter ‘glorifying’ anything. Is it anything like all those Americans with their flags proudly displayed ‘glorifying’ slavery, discrimination, race riots, invading less powerful countries on the feeble misguided excuse of a pre-emptive move (didn’t the Nazis do this too), etc.
Quote: cranky laowai
And those who don’t keep on topic are going to get floundered…
–the moderator[/quote]
Sorry I thought you had enough common sense to realize that since the topic is “Swastikas, Nazis, Hitler and Taiwan” and since Hitler (as well as most ‘real’ Nazis) are a thing of the past I wouldn’t need to specify everything for you but I will try…“Those that spend their lives worrying about what Hitler did and how the Nazis became a world power and how the Jews suffered terribly at the hand of the nasty Nazis can never experience life in present day Taiwan where people who obviously weren’t effected by the Nazis and nasty Hitler don’t see any problem plastering a FEW swastikas and other powerless symbols on their clothing, accessories, motor scooters or helmets.”
Wow, you were so right - that last sentence really does convey much more meaning and with such clarity. Thanks.
Desensitizing people to violence and degradation can only lead to the acceptance of more extreme forms of demeaning people. To accept as “normal” the use of Nazi symbols habituates the idea of segregation, discrimination, violence etc. all attributes of Nazism.
