Sym Vs Kymco Vs Yamaha

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

Hi Folks,

I have a bunch of questions I hope you don’t mind answering.

Myself and my wife would like to buy two scooters.

We live in Taichung.

Whatever brand we buy, we’d like it to buy ‘ten year scooters’.

We both drive old SYM Dukes from the mid-90’s and they are finally dying.

We want to replace them with 125 cc scooters that will last years and years so I’m looking for quality.

We plan on maintaining them well and we hope we can be rewarded with excellent durability.

Most people I know recommend Yamaha.

#1 Can someone explain exactly why Yamaha is better than Sym and Kymco. (if that is indeed the case) Is there a significant price different between Yamaha scooters and Sym and Kymco?

We’d like to buy 125 cc scooters. I’ve driven a few 150 cc scooters over the years and it seems like the gear ratios are designed for ‘out of city’ driving.

#2 If we do mostly city-driving, is it right to assume that a 125 cc scooter has the correct gear ratio for us? If not, what is the specific advantage of a 150cc?

We’d like to buy a slightly smaller 125cc scooter for my wife and a bigger scooter for myself. I’ve heard that there are two wheel sizes for modern scooters.

#3 Is it right to assume that my wife should go for a smaller wheel size scooter because its easier to manage and I might consider a larger wheeled scooter? What is the specific advantage or disadvantage of each?

I keep seeing a lot of new Yamaha Cygnus scooters around. I have heard that they are solid scooters.

#4 Is a Yamaha Cygnus 125cc worth it? Why exactly? (I’ve read other posts on Forumosa about the Cygnus but most don’t explain exactly why people choose that model)

#5 Is there an equivalent smaller 125 cc scooter more for an average Taiwanese woman that has the same quality as the Cygnus.

That’s all for now.

Thanks very much in advance for any ideas.

Cheers

2

Yamaha Cygnus is the probably the best 125cc scooter to buy. They are very reliable and hold their value. They started making them in about 2004 and now there is a brand new model this year. There are 4 generations of them. I own a new one and love it. I just helped my friend find a used one as well. Even the older models (1st-2nd) generations are going for 30-40,000nt. I would recommend them. There is a reason that you see so many on the road. They are great. Yamaha has by far the best quality and reliability for Taiwanese scooters.

To be honest Kymco scooters aren’t that bad, but apparently SYM scooters are worse. The biggest difference is going to be in quality. The Kymco and SYM scooters don’t hold their value as well either. Both can be very reliable scooters, but they will most likely have more problems in the future.

3

[quote=“rk1951”]Yamaha Cygnus is the probably the best 125cc scooter to buy. They are very reliable and hold their value. They started making them in about 2004 and now there is a brand new model this year. There are 4 generations of them. I own a new one and love it. I just helped my friend find a used one as well. Even the older models (1st-2nd) generations are going for 30-40,000nt. I would recommend them. There is a reason that you see so many on the road. They are great. Yamaha has by far the best quality and reliability for Taiwanese scooters.

To be honest Kymco scooters aren’t that bad, but apparently SYM scooters are worse. The biggest difference is going to be in quality. The Kymco and SYM scooters don’t hold their value as well either. Both can be very reliable scooters, but they will most likely have more problems in the future.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply.

Is there a slightly smaller Yamaha 125cc that would be ok for a man and a woman to drive?

Any thoughts on the GTR Aero?

It seems smaller and possibly more easy to handle.

4

The Yamaha GTR is also a 125cc and the same engine as the Cygnus. They are also great scooters. The biggest difference are in the wheels. The GTR has 10’ wheels, while the Cygnus as 12’ wheels. The GTR is a lot cheaper too. Both are great.

5

Am I right to assume that the Cygnus has beefier brakes, suspension etc…?

The GTR also seems to be smaller and less wide.

Also, do you know of a Taiwanese forum or website that we can use to do some research (in Chinese) about these two variants?

6

Am I right to assume that the Cygnus has beefier brakes, suspension etc…?

The GTR also seems to be smaller and less wide.

Also, do you know of a Taiwanese forum or website that we can use to do some research (in Chinese) about these two variants?[/quote]

In all likely hood the GTR is not going to be as strong. It is considered most likely the base model of the Yamaha 125cc scooters. It isn’t bad, just more simple or standard. The Cygnus is the higher end of them. If you are just looking for something cheap and reliable than the GTR would be fine. You can always get the Cygnus for you and the GTR for you wife. :slight_smile:

I don’t really know of any websites even in Chinese for comparison. Sorry bud. I have a Facebook group with about 700 members that are all local in Taiwan and mostly foreigners that might be able to help too. The group is called "Taiwan motorcycles and scooters, buy, sell, trade, parts, and info. You can always post there and see if anyone else has more info besides. me. Here is the link if you have FB https://www.facebook.com/groups/629231123877275/

7

#1. I’ve heard that Yamahas were built better and they don’t depreciate as much as SYM. All my cousins ride Yamahas and so I got myself a Cygnus X. Solid scooter. You do pay more. You can go to your local scooter shop to do a price check.
#2. Not really sure.
#3. The larger the wheels, the smoother the ride.
#4. Yes.
#5. GTR and the Ray are smaller.

8

Since this is turning into a Cygnus fan thread, I’m going to go against the grain and report that I’ve heard NOTHING but complaints from Cygnus owners (I know four). Yes, when they work, they are smooth, and they certainly look sweet, but they seem to be very difficult to troubleshoot correctly when something goes off, and mechanics (that I trust) don’t like working on them because apparently they have more parts and a more complex design (correct me if I’m wrong). Finally, they are somewhat heavier than comparable Kymco/SYMs, which will slow your takeoff acceleration down. Add more expensive parts to the mix, and I see no reason not to go with a tried and tested Kymco (not one of the weird export-aimed ones). I’ve never found their bikes/parts to be cheaply constructed. If you do get a Cygnus, buy new. The complaints I’ve heard were all from 2nd-hand buyers.

9

I will add my 2 cents :2cents: …

I can’t really argue with the advice given here, especially with the Yamaha scooters, but as you ask for options I will throw in PGO. I am a PGO owner but more on that later.

There are 3 models to choose from; two for the wife and one for you.

There is the classic style PGO Bubu 115cc - available with or without ABS - ranging between 60,000 - 75,000 NT. What they have over the Yamaha Cuxi, or any other similar style from Kymco or Sym is that it has double rear shocks.

PGO Bon 125cc. Costs 55000 NT. No ABS version but it has smart stop technology so when you are sitting idle the engine cuts out, roll on the throttle and the engine kicks in. Similar in style to the Yamaha Aero.

PGO Tigra 125/150 (150 has an ABS option). Prices rang from 75000 - 102000 NT. I have the 150 ABS option which I got for 99000 (3000 off). I am not trying to push you towards this bike because the Cygnus is a top option, I just wanted ABS. However, this bike is brilliant. It’s fast and stable. The suspension is great too. The ABS has helped me quite a few times. Like the Cygnus, you don’t really notice the extra passenger.

The engine on a PGO has a lifetime guarantee for the first owner. I’ll stop there! I will most likely put a review up because not many people have experience with these bikes but I know a couple of people have asked.

Actually, PGOs are everywhere in Taichung! Call me a train spotter but the number of times I saw them I lost count.

10

You you have to think about it this way. I really like the Cygnus, most of my friends here have them too and don’t have any problems. I believe that your friends have problems for sure. The first Cygnus came out in either 2003 or 2004. One of mine friends has the 2004 model and he is on his second engine. Yeah that scooter is old. So if you are buying an 8-10 year old second hand Yamaha Cygnus or any model you just don’t know. It also depends on who you are buying it from. My friend just bought a 2008 Cygnus from a mechanic friend of mine that I trust. I have personally ridden the bike to Yilan from Taoyuan last year. It was great. It was his daily rider and he took care of it. He sold it for 32,000nt to my friend. Before we bought this, I went around to many of those huge second hand scooter lots and we rode many of the second hand Cygnus scooters. They all looked great, but were sluggish and just seemed weird. I would never EVER buy a scooter from one of those shops even know the engines there all had year warranties.

If you buy one from a used one from an original owner then I am sure it could be decent, but you never know. Yamaha has by far the best build quality here because even though they are made here, Yamaha inspects them. They bare the name Yamaha so the product has to be good to use their name. Why do you see so many on the road here. Why do the second hand 2008 models hold their value so well? There are reasons for this. The 3rd generation ones are still 50-60k.

I will say that Kymco is the runner up to Yamaha here in terms of build quality. SYM not so much. Any mechanic will tell you that is goes Yamaha, Kymco and Suzuki with SYM last. SYM really isn’t that great. I wouldn’t buy one of their scooters.

Heavier? No. Have you ever ridden an SYM Fighter, that this is heavy too. Many of the 125cc scooters are heavier. I would also agree that if you are planning on staying awhile here then buy new. You can buy second hand, but you really gotta be careful. Don’t buy from big shops. You can buy from a mechanic for sure, but it needs to be someone you trust. All scooters here have their problems. They are 125cc with cheap parts. You just gotta take care of them. Do the regular maintenance. Don’t skip out on oil changes. Change your transmission belt, pullies, clutch, and rollers every 13-15,000 Kilometers. I still stand by Cygnus, they have been around since 2003. They are doing something right for sure.

11

I’m gonna echo rk1951`s comment about not buying second hand from a big dealer. The engine warranty means nothing when other expensive parts are ruined. I bought second hand from a big dealer, and apart from numerous big mechanical parts dying, the bike turned out to be quite unsafe. On the other hand, I introduced my friend to a local mechanic whom he bought a used Kymco from. He was overall happy with the quality.

Also, used sports scooters run the risk of being ex projects where people have messed around with the engine. I wouldn’t want to buy an old model scooter that has potentially been thrashed around and engine components tweaked.

Buy new if possible.

12

I have a Kymco Jockey 125, been driving it for 2+ years but I drive the hell out of it, it is nearing 40,000km in 2 years, no major issues

Only replaced tires (brakes are still OEM) It is a little small though which I didn’t notice when I bought it so my legs kind of fold uncomfortably. But knowing how reliable the scooter is, I wouldn’t trade it for the world.

rk, you mention changing the transmission belt, pulleys, etc, at 15k, my scooter is at 40k and all OEM, the mechanic just said "if it aint broke)… Is there any major damage that can occur if you don’t change it and wait till it snaps?

13

[quote=“dan2006”]

rk, you mention changing the transmission belt, pulleys, etc, at 15k, my scooter is at 40k and all OEM, the mechanic just said "if it aint broke)… Is there any major damage that can occur if you don’t change it and wait till it snaps?[/quote]

No major damage can occur. Those CVT belts snap and wear out. I have had a few go on me and when they snap your dead in the water. Rollers wear out too, but your scooter will still ride with worn out rollers. The CVT consists of rollers, a drive belt, and a few pulleys. Your clutch and clutch spring is there too. If you want to keep the performance up and reliability (mainly the belt) it is recommended that you change those on a daily rider I think about every 15k. At least get them checked out with a mechanic you can trust. Belts will show crack in it sometimes if it is worn. Pulleys will show wear on them too, especially if you ride hard. I too have a 50cc scooter that I bought 10 years ago here. I still own it and rent it out to new teachers or friends for 1k a month. At one point I hadn’t changed anything on the CVT, I think it was years. After a while they poor little guy wouldn’t accelerate anymore. Once I changed all new parts in the CVT the 50cc came back to life. Haha. If you have a newer scooter and you want everything to last, it really is best to keep up on the maintenance. Some people might think it is a waste of money and don’t fix until it breaks. I’m a motorcycle enthusiast so I like to keep my ride safe and reliable. If you do keep up with the maintenance then your ride will last a long time and won’t leave you stranded on the side of the road in the middle of the countryside when it is pouring down rain. :slight_smile: If you don’t care about your scooter, than get an old Duke for 8-10k and ride the shit out of it for 2 years, then get another one and do the same. Your scooter makes you money, gets you to work and places. For a lot of people it is a big part of their life, so in my opinion treat it like so.

About the PGO’s, (this is what my two mechanics have said) they aren’t as reliable and parts aren’t as easy to get. I personally don’t have any experience with them though. They are made here and PGO puts their name on them, so you would think they would be decent. I live in Taoyuan and I rarely see them. Maybe they are great. I don’t think I would buy one though. I like to have parts that are easier to find. I don’t see that many PGO shops around, but they are here and there. I think Yamaha or Kymco would be a better way to go, but this is just my 2cents.

14

Thanks for all of the excellent replies.

Our intention is to buy brand new.

I have a couple more questions:

One of the only new model scooters I have driven recently is the Kymco Jockey. It is a 2012. It belongs to my in-laws and I ride it all the time when I visit them. It seems top-heavy, unbalanced and the front disc breaks seemed so much more dangerous than my experience riding my trusty DUKE. When riding on un-even pavement, it seems ‘slippy’.

Is this because the Kymco Jockey is a budget scooter compared to other more expensive modern scooters?

One of the things that have prevented me from wanting to buy a new model scooter is because this Jockey seems so much less of a good riding experience than my DUKE.

What do you guys think?

Is it just that I haven’t gotten used to a new scooter yet or is it that the Jockey is particularly a ‘unique’ ride?

Also, is there a way to adjust the tension on Disc Breaks so they don’t throw you over the front-end every time you hit the lever?

My in-laws Jockey is super twitchy.

Another question:

Should we be looking at a 125cc or 150cc.

Can someone explain which one is better in the city?

My understanding is that the 150cc’s are geared ‘wider’ so they are better for longer stretches of road and for mountain rides.

Is there a benefit to buying a 150cc if I’ll be using it for city driving?

Thanks

15

Rk, sorry for not replying, it skipped my mind, thanks for your advice, Ill ask the mechanic next time to look into those parts.

As per my recommendation, always had good luck with Kymco, from the one I drive now, to the crappy 90cc smokey one that was over 20 years old and took me all over the island without a hitch. So I will always recommend Kymco.

16

[quote=“dan2006”]Rk, sorry for not replying, it skipped my mind, thanks for your advice, Ill ask the mechanic next time to look into those parts.

As per my recommendation, always had good luck with Kymco, from the one I drive now, to the crappy 90cc smokey one that was over 20 years old and took me all over the island without a hitch. So I will always recommend Kymco.[/quote]

No worries…and like I said Kymco is a the second best buy in my opinion. :thumbsup:

17

I should say that I have no particular bias against any scooter brand.

The very first scooter I had was a Kymco Freeway (Let the Good Time Roll) and it was brilliant for many many years.

I’ve been riding Sym DUKES for at least the last ten years and I find them brilliant.

If I could get band new carbonated ones for a good price I’d buy two of them.

Since injected scooters seemed to have gotten so much more complicated in recent years, I wanted to know what folks recommended so I could get another ten years out of my scooter without too much hassle.

Thanks for all of your responses.

18

[quote=“sedition”]I should say that I have no particular bias against any scooter brand.

The very first scooter I had was a Kymco Freeway (Let the Good Time Roll) and it was brilliant for many many years.

I’ve been riding Sym DUKES for at least the last ten years and I find them brilliant.

If I could get band new carbonated ones for a good price I’d buy two of them.

Since injected scooters seemed to have gotten so much more complicated in recent years, I wanted to know what folks recommended so I could get another ten years out of my scooter without too much hassle.

Thanks for all of your responses.[/quote]

I would say that fuel injected scooters are the way to go. Carbs are going to be gone soon. I also think pretty much any scooter you buy (Yamaha, Kymco, Suzuki, SYM) would last 10 years if you take care of them. The actual piston might not last that long but could. It is all about keeping up in the maintenance and they should last 10 years. The problem is that once they get around 6-10 years old you will probably have to start replacing things. That is a given I would think.

19

[quote=“sedition”]Thanks for all of the excellent replies.

Our intention is to buy brand new.

I have a couple more questions:

One of the only new model scooters I have driven recently is the Kymco Jockey. It is a 2012. It belongs to my in-laws and I ride it all the time when I visit them. It seems top-heavy, unbalanced and the front disc breaks seemed so much more dangerous than my experience riding my trusty DUKE. When riding on un-even pavement, it seems ‘slippy’.

Is this because the Kymco Jockey is a budget scooter compared to other more expensive modern scooters?

One of the things that have prevented me from wanting to buy a new model scooter is because this Jockey seems so much less of a good riding experience than my DUKE.

What do you guys think?

Is it just that I haven’t gotten used to a new scooter yet or is it that the Jockey is particularly a ‘unique’ ride?

Also, is there a way to adjust the tension on Disc Breaks so they don’t throw you over the front-end every time you hit the lever?

My in-laws Jockey is super twitchy.

Another question:

Should we be looking at a 125cc or 150cc.

Can someone explain which one is better in the city?

My understanding is that the 150cc’s are geared ‘wider’ so they are better for longer stretches of road and for mountain rides.

Is there a benefit to buying a 150cc if I’ll be using it for city driving?

Thanks[/quote]

Ok, I’m not scooter expert like rk is, but I ride a Kymco Jockey 125cc.

Yes, the Jockey will be “slippy” on uneven pavement. I ride the same routes everyday and I always take it slower over the roads that are uneven. I learned very early that I should not be gunning it past those parts of my commute and pretty much do not go over 50kph when it rains. I assume it’s the head heavy is the reason the Jockey can be slippy at times.

I did not have the slippy issue when I rented a 2013 Cygnus for a weekend when I went to Yilan (from Taipei). Of course I’ll never know of how it rides in the rain, but I was glad it didn’t rain, otherwise it would’ve been a pretty bad experience with the crappy rain coats the rental place gives you.

I’ve heard only good things about the Cygnus and when I do decide to buy my own, I’ll be going to rk in Taoyuan. The only bad thing I’ve heard of it is that it’s a little on the heavy side, so it’s slower going up mountains.

To answer your early question about mandarin forums for comparison, try Mobile01 forums. They usually have very very long and extensive write ups about anything and everything. I’m not sure if anyone did a side by side comparison, but you can look up a 3rd generation Cygnus write up and a 4th generation Cygnus write up and compare. Do be warned, some of the write ups are very…very long.

Good luck!

20

Can’t say I’ve rode a Duke, but I’m guessing they have drum brakes on the rear and front. Drum brakes are way more forgiving if you
hit the brakes a little hard, especially if they are a bit “loose”, meaning they need to be adjusted. Disk brakes aren’t forgiving like that
at all, only if there’s air in the oil line, as disk brakes use oil to push the brake. I really don’t think that 150’s are “geared” wider, they
just have a little more power. More often than not, the 150’s have the “premium” extras, like dual disk brakes, rather than front disk and
drum back, or even worse both drum brakes. If you’re worried about disk brakes being too “touchy” then find a model that has ABS
brakes. You can hit them as hard as you like, and they won’t lock on you. You may find it surprising how fast they make you stop,
but at least you won’t have your tire lock on you when you hit the brakes. Trust me, that’s not a good thing, I’ve gone down a couple
of times because of that. From what I’ve seen in this thread, I’m surprised I haven’t seen mention of that, get something with ABS.
Considering Taiwan has a but load of rain, ABS is a god send for scooter riders. It’s so easy to lock the tire from braking in the rain
if you aren’t careful. If anything, I’d be looking for that when purchasing a new scooter.