Ok, you may or may not have heard of Tai Ke and Tai mei’s. These are folks in my mind at least, are the folks that were born in Taiwan, and their ancestors are born in Taiwan and not China. They are also the folks who generally work the blue collar jobs, and are often considered free spirited. My question is, do you guys and gals think they are more friendly than the average Taiwanese? Especially the business/gov’t/professor type average Taiwanese guy or gal? Do you think they more independent and not into Mianzi and Guanxi as much? Who would you rather hang out with a Tai Ke or average Taiwanese type?
I am always really comfortable with blue collar types in Taiwan, they are more comfortable in their own skin (not skin as in race, but in the true form of the expression).
Your definitions are all messed up. Taike and Taimei has nothing to do with where your ancestors were born and everything to do with attitude, style, and appearance. This is Taike at its finest:
This is not so fine Taike:
This is Taimei:
Of course they care about mianzi and guanxi. Most gangsters basically fit the definition of Taike perfectly (though by no means are all Taike gangsters), and it doesn’t get more guanxi-full or mianzi-obsessed than gangs.
I wouldn’t go as far as to discount anyone beyond the blue-collar crowd but I’d say being locally-educated with anything more than a bachelor-level degree from a second-tier university is a warning sign to me.
And it’s not that I’m biased against educated people, on the contrary. It’s just that while in the West education is about encouraging diverse opinions (as long as they are logically sound and can be substantiated) and debating them, here it’s about stifling any discussion because there’s always only one acceptable answer: A, B, 西, or D.
In Chinese culture, “education” (教) has always been about beating (攵) into obedience (孝), which leads to mass production of highly opinionated people repeating memorized mantras (as opposed to actually contributing any real insight). The more time a person spends inside such soul-crushing machinery, the greater the extent to which any remnants of their own personality have been eradicated, which makes them essentially a boring automaton. (It also depends on the field of education, with technical/sciences people least affected, and the worst offenders being the local Chinese language departments.)
I’d rather view people in terms of where they’re headed instead of where they’re coming from, so I try to steer away from pigeonholing and give everyone a chance but in the long run I think I’d find it much more fun to hang out with someone who has not fallen victim to the system described above, whether they’re working class, businessmen, professionals with an actual record in the private sector, people who spent some time living abroad, or anyone who had the courage to go against the tide (especially considering the tide being so strong here).
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]Your definitions are all messed up. Taike and Taimei has nothing to do with where your ancestors were born and everything to do with attitude, style, and appearance. This is Taike at its finest:
This is not so fine Taike:
This is Taimei:
Of course they care about mianzi and guanxi. Most gangsters basically fit the definition of Taike perfectly (though by no means are all Taike gangsters), and it doesn’t get more guanxi-full or mianzi-obsessed than gangs.[/quote]
That Taimei is a hottie.
What hokwongwei said. TaiKe is (broadly) equivalent to ‘chav’ or ‘scally’ in UK culture. It means someone uneducated, uncultured, and proud of it. The typical blue-collar guy might be a taike, but more than likely not: a genuine TaiKe won’t have a job, and would probably be affronted if you suggested he did.
Anyway, dunno if blue-collar types are more friendly or not. Some are, some aren’t. You certainly get a few over-educated chinless wonders who are a looooong way up their own colon, but there are plenty of nice ones too. Basically, this:
I have to say I really like my wife’s family members, and only she and one sister have gone to college. They are very much the “by the bootstraps” working class story that Taiwan was built on in the 1970’s and 1980’s. If I ever take up writing as a profession, I’d love to tell her dad’s story.
Please see my other post below for more explicit explanations.
The word “taike” has more than one meaning and can be somewhat ambiguous. Originally it was a loaded term against the local, Taiwanese-speaking people, used by the new arrivals - I feel the example pictures provided by Hokwongwei are somewhat extreme and follow this narrower meaning. The term has since been partially reclaimed (sources/background links: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th). I understand the OP uses it to mean, broadly, “working class.” To avoid any ambiguity associated with it I avoided using it in my reply altogether.
Do chavs self-identify as such? I’d say the parallel is closer to the English word “punk.”
I imagine some do. A defining characteristic of being a chav is that they’re proud to be chavs, even if they don’t use the word. Its a source of identity to cling onto when one has a poor-to-nonexistent sense of self.
Yeah, it’s not an exact comparison. Punks don’t exist anymore though, do they? Punk was an altogether more complex phenomenon - although there was definitely a chav-like subgroup who spent their time getting drunk/doped-up and kicking the shit out of each other, it was also a genuine counterculture movement with more sophisticated modes of expression than the average modern chav (or taike) could muster.
I think hokwongwei’s post illustrates the generally-accepted (modern) meaning of TaiKe, etymology notwithstanding. I would never refer to a working-class guy as ‘taike’ because it would be extremely offensive and condescending, especially coming from a foreigner.
Yeah I love it when they spit binlang juice on me and ram their blue trucks into the back of my scooter 
. Salt o’de earth dey does be.
But I agree, they are certainly comfortable in their blue trucks, the educated types here just start spouting complete shite on meeting a whitey.
Hey…
Oh, I didn’t actually take my analysis that far. What I meant is that, on the linguistic level, the word “punk” had its primary, negative meaning overshadowed, whereas the word “chav” has never had any other connotation than the initial, pejorative one. So I felt the “taike” story is more accurately reflected by the analogy with “punk” (in the early stages of its semantic shift).
Anyway, I think you are both correct in how the term is perceived by the majority of Taiwanese. Perhaps only Hansioux or one of our other Formosan Forumosans could add something here.
Definitely agree with it, wouldn’t do that either.
In the past, yes, it was somehow a derogatory term to describe people with lower political/social/economic status&identity.
However, nowadays, ‘TaiKe’ has almost been a neutral term, among the young generation(under 40 years old).
In most cases, it only has to do with one’s dressing or appearance, and has almost nothing to do with one’s status or identity anymore.
Nowadays, Tai-Ke or Tai-Mei simply means people who has their own unique style/culture of dressing&presenting themselves in front of others.
A stereotyped Tai-Ke or Tai-Mei always wears a sleeveless undershirt, shorts, and a pair of flip flop.
TaiKe (noun) 台客=a person who has the unique style of dressing&presenting himself/herself in front of others.
You have to break the word down, if you want to understand it.
Tai (adjective) 台=being having the unique style of dressing&presenting himself/herself in front of others.
Ke (noun) 客=a guest, but here, it simply means a person(can be either a male or a female).
TaiMei is just a recently-invented feminine noun, based on TaiKe.
Mei (noun) 妹=girl
So, a TaiMei is a female who is a TaiKe.
This is how we native Mandarin speaker in Taiwan use it
If I always wear a sleeveless undershirt, shorts, and a pair of flip flop to the classroom. My classmate who knows me well may just say,“林OO，你好台喔，真是標準的台客。(Mr.Lin, you are so 台, and you are really a standard 台客.)” without any bad or offensive intention.
Therefore, in practice, there are two usages, which are
1)‘Tai’ as an adjective
2)‘TaiKe’ as a noun.
People are people, wherever they are and whatever their education.
Unfortunately, education is rarely a meritocracy, nowadays. It’s a kind of finishing school for middle class kids who are too dumb and lazy to do anything else (and I speak as someone who didn’t leave skool 'til she was 23), both in Europe and Asia. Multiple that by 10 for the Taiwanese genii who cramschooled a middling IELTS/TOEFL score and paid for a foreigner’s degree in the UK or elsewhere (stuff like ‘Marketing’ or ‘Fashion retailing’ - degrees with no local students). Who wants to hang out with those folk? Of course they’re going to be boring and awful.
But university educated 外國人in Taiwan digging on the ‘blue collar’ Taike has a cheesy, ‘noble savage’ squee to it. Gross.
Thanks for this. It needed to be said but I didn’t know how to say it.
[quote=“Doraemonster”]I wouldn’t go as far as to discount anyone beyond the blue-collar crowd but I’d say being locally-educated with anything more than a bachelor-level degree from a second-tier university is a warning sign to me.
And it’s not that I’m biased against educated people, on the contrary. It’s just that while in the West education is about encouraging diverse opinions (as long as they are logically sound and can be substantiated) and debating them, here it’s about stifling any discussion because there’s always only one acceptable answer: A, B, 西, or D.
In Chinese culture, “education” (教) has always been about beating (攵) into obedience (孝), which leads to mass production of highly opinionated people repeating memorized mantras (as opposed to actually contributing any real insight). The more time a person spends inside such soul-crushing machinery, the greater the extent to which any remnants of their own personality have been eradicated, which makes them essentially a boring automaton. (It also depends on the field of education, with technical/sciences people least affected, and the worst offenders being the local Chinese language departments.)
[/quote]
I’ve always found that professors at local universities are the most racist, ignorant people on this island. you really nailed with this post.
It is?
Yes, Doraemonster, that’s exactly why it was a derogatory term in the past.
It’s a very long history story to tell.
I found that the explanation on the wikipedia is very precise&resourceful, yet it’s all in Chinese.
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%B0%E5%AE%A2
Thanks for this. It needed to be said but I didn’t know how to say it.[/quote]
Are those teachers/professors over 40 years old?
Taiwanese people who are over 40 years old have a very different feeling&concept for the term ‘TaiKe’ from the younger people, because they were mostly taught that ‘TaiKe’ is a derogatory term among their generation.
[quote=“Deuce Dropper”]
I’ve always found that professors at local universities are the most racist, ignorant people on this island. you really nailed with this post.[/quote]
Many teachers/professors in Taiwan have lots of prejudice&bias.
Even in my University(It’s the No.1 ranking in Taiwan, just for the record), lots of teachers/professors of mine are very narrow-minded, prejudiced, biased, and even racist.
Obviously, although they went abroad(mostly the U.S.) to get their Bachelor’s, Master’s, or Doctorate Degrees, they didn’t learn or bring back the real merits of the Western education(Multiculturalism, Human rights, Western thinking&teaching skills, etc).
Back to the topic, nowadays, ‘TaiKe’ has almost been a neutral term, among the young generation(under 40 years old).
--------------------The below only applies to the young generation(under 40 years old), and may not necessarily applies to people who are above 40.--------------------
In most cases, it only has to do with one’s dressing or appearance, and has almost nothing to do with one’s status or identity anymore.
A stereotyped TaiKe or TaiMei(a female who is a TaiKe) always wears a sleeveless undershirt, shorts, and a pair of flip flop.
If I always wear a sleeveless undershirt, shorts, and a pair of flip flop to the classroom, my classmate who knows me well may just say,“林OO，你好台喔，真是標準的台客。(Mr.Lin, you are so 台, and you are really a standard 台客.)” without any bad or offensive intention.
In my experience, if a young person(under 40 years old) describes another person as a TaiKe, he/she usually don’t say it with any offensive or condescending intention, and in most cases, it will not be perceived offensive or condescending.
I personally never use this term to describe anyone.
1.I know this term had a derogatory history, despite it is almost a neutral term now.
2.It’s just not in the dictionary of my brain. If I want to describe a person who wears a sleeveless undershirt, shorts, and a pair of flip flop 24/7, I may just say “The guy who always wear the beachwear”.
3.Probably, because I am sensitive&I am a man of few words in real life, I am not used to judging/making comments about others’ dressing/appearance/race or any small stuff like that.
Maybe it’s off topic, but it’s like I have never ever said/done anything weird&inappropriate to another person simply because he/she is of a different race. Never ever in my whole 22-year life.
However, as you guys can see, some Taiwanese people are just insensitive&used to judging/making comments about others in front of others’ faces.