Taichung air pollution. The residents poll

[Gain]

[Explant]

That map kinds if proves the point the west vs east. Taichung on that ap is in the upper reaches of all taiwan.

While making comparisons lets try this (cause comparing oneself to china kind of makes it obvious we are desparate).

[Gain]

@Explant

While making comparisons lets try this (cause comparing oneself to china kind of makes it obvious we are desparate).

Australia is almost as big as China and it’s got the same population. Not a fair comparison at all.

Have you noticed Korea?

[Explant]

Missed my point…anyone can appear better when comparing to China. Its a terrible argument. Taiwan has crazy pollution and saying china is worse is silly. Strive for improvements. Hence my above post.

Its like Manson comparing himself to hitler and saying hes not all that bad.

[Quesito]

there are 4.627 million in Sydney.

[Gain]

Yeah, with a smaller population density than Taiwan’s.

@Explant

Missed my point…anyone can appear better when comparing to China. Its a terrible argument. Taiwan has crazy pollution and saying china is worse is silly. Strive for improvements. Hence my above post.

Who’s comparing to China?

[Gain]

@saisai

Yes, yes, yes…we know everyone else is wrong because you say so - including myself, my wife, almost every Taiwanese person I know, many of the people on this forum, and all of the countless groups and individuals around Taiwan who are pressuring the government to do something about air pollution here.

I didn’t say it was perfect, but saying that it’s much worse now is stupid.

@SlowRain

This is an asinine statement. You don’t even know the difference between the two, and yet you’re arguing like you’re the only knowledgeable one. You have no credibility at this point.

The point is it’s not smog, in the morning. How do you explain the green readings and haze in early mornings then? That the readings are fake? Well find a better excuse.

I have provided statistics repeatedly, all you guys do is saying they are fake.

World's Most Polluted Cities in 2022 - PM2.5 Ranking | IQAir

[SlowRain]

@Gain

The point is it’s not smog, in the morning. How do you explain the green readings and haze in early mornings then? That the readings are fake? Well find a better excuse.

How do you explain away afternoon pollution when I can’t see the mountains? How about evening pollution? Also, there are times when there is little to no wind for days at a time. The pollution hangs in the air for a week. But it’s somehow called “mist” or “fog” if it’s before noon.

Your chart doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said.

[shiadoa]

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W40	75	105	95	76	51	65	114
W41	90	96	96	94	70	62	67
W42	88	77	102	83	90	94	81
W43	94	113	87	93	113	126	104
W44	91	97	99

November 2018

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W44				116	66	74	73
W45	86	78	125	148	109	100	126
W46	130	112	89	89	122	146	121
W47	100	84	84	84	77	88	88
W48	92	38	65	67	88

December 2018

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W48						107	117
W49	113	103	65	74	91	74	72
W50	76	63	87	52	83	-	151
W51	115	87	112	94	80	104	149
W52	134	53	78	69	48	45	56
W53	82

January 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W1		50	72	67	87	110	144
W2	87	80	97	94	110	138	109
W3	91	80	116	66	50	86	92
W4	132	62	71	95	91	97	75
W5	60	80	85	74

February 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W5					57	67	105
W6	94	80	115	75	69	64	57
W7	54	60	56	64	83	113	80
W8	93	113	118	151	144	100	92
W9	76	90	125	131

March 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W9					116	108	161
W10	87	84	130	69	61	71	54
W11	54	111	118	134	142	88	103
W12	110	143	141	140	71	80	74
W13	59	72	87	121	95	71	56

April 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W14	130	72	113	101	106	140	114
W15	107	95	68	53	76	73	104
W16	71	90	89	83	97	70	43
W17	67	48	49	46	45	56	84
W18	87	81

May 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W18			61	34	70	53	58
W19	54	56	49	90	94	47	75
W20	77	90	55	47	40	37	32
W21	38	28	83	123	102	78	51
W22	73	68	31	83	79

June 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W22						45	18

|W23|17|24|23|28|35|19|26|
|W24|23|17|15|14|22|23|52|
|W25|76|39|31|36|23|19|21|
|W26|19|12|20|22|21|23|19|

July 2019

	Mon	Tue	Wed	Thu	Fri	Sat	Sun
W27	17	25	36	13	15	17	24
W28	27	17	17	19	34	30	30
W29	33	52

June and July obviously better because of the heavy rains , mainly.
even today , right now …do you think that haze is “mist” or are you being purposefully obtuse? That is Zhushan …not even near the power plant.
Your claim that it was just the odd day is patently false. I would say that the average day if you take a look is at least "moderate " .

I suspect that there are other things in the air that contribute to the bad air quality , that AQI index may not cover but anyway …

[Gain]

@BHL4life

gain cherry picks the stats that suit him. seen him do it before.

You are the ones cherry picking the worst days.

@SlowRain

Your chart doesn’t disprove anything I’ve said.

Except it does. You keep saying it used to be better when it’s obviously the complete opposite.

@shiadoa

June and July obviously better because of the heavy rains , mainly.

It hasn’t rained much at all in the past 2 weeks and it’s fine.

@shiadoa

even today , right now …do you think that haze is “mist” or are you being purposefully obtuse?

What haze right now? I don’t see any haze from my window.

[lost_in_space]

@Explant

If 100 is your limit for leaving the house.

Not to the extent of leaving the house, more like going out for a jog/cycle or taking the kids out to the park. If the stats are anything to go by, then 80% of the year is < 100 AQI which I think is manageable.

I would’ve preferred Tainan or Kaohsiung as a place to live, but the air pollution stats put me off completely.

Back to my earlier question, is it as bad as people say it is or are expats just comparing Taichung to their hometowns?

As a point of reference, I’ve lived in Taipei and thought the air pollution was manageable.

[Brianjones]

Taichung is a lot worse than Taipei. One of the main reasons is that it hardly rains in Taichung in winter so the air pollution will linger for days and days, even weeks.
Taipei isnt clean either but it rains a lot more.
You can manage to live with the air pollution too in Taichung, it’s just not healthy . The sunshine makes up for it a bit though.

I’m one of the few nerds who has actually checked the stats and Taichung has near drought conditions most Winters. It’s really very different than Taipei, in fact it’s like living in a different country in many ways…Quite a lot of good ways too ! Space and climate being a big benefit…

Before public transport was terrible but there are some big improvements in the works.

The foreign community is a lot smaller there than Taipei. I think it suits many independent living people.

[tempogain]

I understand that there isn’t much clarity with this Taichung air situation. It’s one of the great controversies of our day. I think there’s only way to cut through the haze here. If it doesn’t contain some kind of data, or be in response to such, or at least not be some kind of snark based on individual perceptions of the air quality in Taichung, expect it to be deleted etc.

[BHL4life]

wow, looks like we got a pollution denier - sympathizer over here.

pollution is real, its a real problem in taiwan. denying it for some sad attempt to gain face does nothing good for any of us.

[Explant]

Will photos be accepted as data? How about medical receipts?

@lost_in_space in all seriousness if children are the priority than so is the east. But it depends on your prefferences and needs. The west is quite unhealthy. Not just air pollution but soil and water contamination. I left the west for many reasons, but one big one was that despite my following very strict oragnic procedures in my agriculture work, i was getting shipments stopped while exporting. Lots of reasons why but its hard to prevent wind and rain, and the soil doeant clean out as fast as many think. So if you do live there i suggest being at least careful about food and water. Its just reality in todays world.

Brian is right. We used to joke that Taichung/chunghua/yunlin area was like a dessert. Super dry. But then most of the south is in winter.

Something to ponder. The air quality index tests a few things but most peoples images show pm 2.5 which is mostly particle matter in the air. What we all need to remember is just that. Particle size fragment in the air. Says nothing of what kind of particles.

So in kaohsiung there are lots of chemical factories. They tend to blow into pingtung. In taichung there is a lot of coal burning particles. They tend to blow towards chaiyi. All areas in between are polluted as all sh*t, but to be fair not only because those 2 sources.

In taidong the main pollutants are sand from rivers and smoke from burning fields. On the face of it one will no doubt say that ya, burning rice stubbles and fine sand blowing up from rivers is easily better than that dirty AF coal plant in Taichung and all the chemical silliness in tainan/kaohsiung and pingtung. Well it is better. But for some consideration. The river dust. Every house in countryside taiwan drains its household cleaning chems down the drain. Every farmer that sprays xyz, or lays out snail bait etc ends up dumping it into the river eventually. And often directly. That stuff all goes down the rocky river bed, dries out and becomes dust in the air. We are quite literally breathing this stuff. Farmers, we are finding out, tend to be getting various health issues. We used to assume it was spraying but turns out its also from the dust in the soil from ploughing.

Same goes for smoke from burning crops. Think how much farmers here spray. If youre not sure, its a LOT. When they burn the foliage the spray becomes airborne and my guess is its not well studied about the chemical composition of said ____cides after heat treatment. We breathe that too.

So if you want to move somewhere consider some things. Cost of living to income ratio and possibilities. Air quality. Water quality. Food quality. Education quality (not just schooling). Safety. Critical thinking and skills ability in the environment. In taichung you likely will be breathing heavily contaminated air, eating contaminated food and drinking crappy water. Thats similar in most of the country. But you also likely wont be letting your kids out to ride their bike outside alone in the west as its just not safe. Most people dont let their kids go out with the neighbor abd play around outside in the west. Most people wont be able to meet farmers who care about and grow quality food in the west (there is rain so its nearly impossible anyway). You likely wint feel ok letting young kids walk to school so are always driving them. Etc etc.

Country side has inconveniences no doubt. I left because the inconveniences of leaving the west were no where near as large as the stress, unhealthy lifestyle and poor atmosphere for raising children that are consistently a problem on that side of the rock. If you need a city, go further north IMO. If you want bright futures and know how to work and think, go east. Best of luck.

[lost_in_space]

Thanks. Alot to consider and ponder on.

I liked the idea of Taichung as there are plently of modern apartments, better weather and lower cost of living as compared to Taipei.

@Explant

In taichung you likely will be breathing heavily contaminated air, eating contaminated food and drinking crappy water.

Is this much different in Taipei though, apart from the slighter cleaner air due to the constant rain?

@Explant

If you need a city, go further north IMO.

I do need a city (not for work; we just happen to be city people) and value living in a clean modern and convenient environment with access to the arts.

If Taipei is indeed better overall, I might stick with Taipei and figure out how to make it work cost wise. Maybe in the outskirts like Sanxia/Linkou which aren’t too far when I feel the need to go into town.

Any other cities/districts worth considering?

[fanglangzhe]

@tempogain

I understand that there isn’t much clarity with this Taichung air situation. It’s one of the great controversies of our day.

I just don’t understand this so-called lack of clarity and presence of controversy for just Taichung among all cities. Either you trust the AQI data as provided by the relevant websites (such as Taichung Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index) or you don’t. And if you don’t, then that should mean you don’t trust aqi data for any city in the world. There is no basis for saying that AQI data is only unreliable for Taichung but reliable for everywhere else. Unless if you’re into ridiculous conspiracy theories.

[tempogain]

This is a tough crowd

[eCanada]

@lost_in_space

I liked the idea of Taichung as there are plently of modern apartments, better weather and lower cost of living as compared to Taipei

Without getting into all the data on pollution I just wanted to add that I’ve lived in Taichung for a little while, about 10 years. I personally think the air is getting better, but it’s still worse than Canada. Some days I wont go for a run because of the smog. Otherwise, it really doesn’t impact my day to day life?

I recently bought a condo and enjoy the city. Cheaper than taipei and the development is really taking off. New Costco, new MRT, etc,etc

I love the convenience of Taichung. The east is nice… But I find it really boring.

I think of I had more money I’d go for taipei, but Taichung is a decent place to live

[jjmag]

Do not move to Taichung with children. Terrible mistake. Just took a reading and the AQI is 170. I’ve been here less than a year and regretting the entire winter and most of the spring. I take measurements regularly and it is disgusting.