Women get ‘verbally assaulted’ on public transport from the age of about 12 upwards. No-one really gives a shit, including women, for the most part. Headphones, choosing your battles.
Well, that’s a shame if that’s true, though i would question whether ‘most women don’t give a shit’.
I absolutely think the guy did the right thing by not escalating the situation into a physical fight, but as an able-bodied man, at least you have that option if another (unarmed) man is abusing you. He chose a smarter path, and achieved a more impactful result. That’s great.
But for a woman in that situation, i think it’s worse. When menacing abuse and physical threats are directed at someone who is physically powerless to respond, the distress would cut deeper, for longer, and the fear of a repeat attack would be much greater.
Well, that’s a shame if that’s true, though I would question whether ‘most women don’t give a shit’.
I absolutely think the guy did the right thing by not escalating the situation into a physical fight, but as an able-bodied man, at least you have that option if another (unarmed) man is abusing you. He chose a smarter path, and achieved a more impactful result. That’s great.
But for a woman in that situation, I think it’s worse. When menacing abuse and physical threats are directed at someone who is physically powerless to respond, the distress would cut deeper, for longer, and the fear of a repeat attack would be much greater.[/quote]
I think it’s a pretty safe bet that most grown women are so used to it that they barely even register stuff every day that would have the average dude going Billy frigging Jack on the responsible party.
WHat ?_?
WHat ?_?[/quote]
[quote=“Beitouzen”]Thanks for the update.
[quote=“cyberguppy”]…
- Mr. Liao has lost his job. Mayor apologised to him, police finally got cracking on the case with no result though.[/quote]
I probably misunderstood the above, the mayor apologised to the the bully and there is no judicial consequences?[/quote]
My bad wording, the major apologised for the police mismanagement… no judicial consequences and probably no changes in the way the police go about not doing their job.
WHat ?_?[/quote]
[/quote]
Meine Uebermachtsfantasien are through the roof right now.
How did it end?
Well … yeah. That’s what misogyny is. It’s not a bunch of old bitches being ‘offended’ about tit jokes, it’s the constant cortisol rush of random shit that you don’t know is going to escalate or not. theguardian.com/lifeandstyle … ront-of-me
Yeah. Make physical contact and I’ll draw blood, though. And no, I don’t care what the consequences are. 
Taipei tends to be stealth gropers rather than the verbals, but maybe that’s because they assume I don’t understand Chinese?
[quote=“cyberguppy”]Just a quick heads up here… I’ve been traveling a bit recently.
First, the video is not my footage. Chris Hall is a really good friend of mine for about 7 years here on the ROC. He ran the video past me few times before he posted it.
I chatted with him yesterday and noted the following.
- Mr. Liao has lost his job. Mayor apologised to him, police finally got cracking on the case with no result though.
- Chris made $0 from the video via youtube.
- He’s got a lot of press attention, requests for interview, TV etc but he’s not interested in dealing with the media.
- Everyone seems to recognize him publicly now.
- Lots of support from TW and foreigners alike. A few death threats thrown in though.
- He’s leaving Taiwan in the near future for career purposes.
- Racial equality probably still has a long way to go in Taiwan but at least it’s had some attention now.
Thanks for all the support in the community!![/quote]
Thanks for the update…I thought it was a bit weird you hadn’t re-entered the debate, no one realized you are not in fact Chris Hall I guess.
Death threats! There really are some crazies out there.
I don’t doubt you would, and good on you … but as a ‘How-to Guide’ for a significant proportion of women, and young girls, such as the 13-year old in the link you posted? I don’t think it’s a practical, long-term solution, and nor is just ‘putting the headphones on’ or ‘not giving a shit’. Ultimately, it’s got to be a public discussion and education thing. The video has opened a door into that for racism, and that’s great, but a similar thing needs to happen with gender politics. Hopefully, it won’t be an India-bus-rape-type youtube video that finally kick-starts it.
Misogyny is clearly a problem in many countries, ‘with local characteristics’. In Taiwan, as it is with racism, a lot of it seems to be institutionalized or culturalized. That could well mitigate the need for many people to verbally degrade women, or foreigners, coz the government has already done it for them.
A woman’s (foreigner’s) rights in a divorce is one such institutionalized discrimination that springs to mind.
I don’t doubt you would, and good on you … but as a ‘How-to Guide’ for a significant proportion of women, and young girls, such as the 13-year old in the link you posted? I don’t think it’s a practical, long-term solution, and nor is just ‘putting the headphones on’ or ‘not giving a shit’. Ultimately, it’s got to be a public discussion and education thing. The video has opened a door into that for racism, and that’s great, but a similar thing needs to happen with gender politics. Hopefully, it won’t be an India-bus-rape-type youtube video that finally kick-starts it.[/quote]
A ‘How-to Guide For Women’. Yes. Well, that sort of grinds my gears in the whole ‘wear a burqua so you don’t look like a slut’ kind of a thing. Basically, it’s a men’s issue, not a women’s issue. Tell our sons not to be mental creepy arseholes, don’t teach our daughters that this is what they get, so they should learn to cope. But yeah, if I had a teenaged daughter, I think I’d tell her to move away and not engage because she doesn’t have the people-skills and experience to read the threat level and diffuse or conquer through engaging.
Me, I either don’t react at all, in any way, and wear headphones and make no eye contact, 80% of the time. Or I try and humanise it – ‘Hi, I’m Ermintrude. I’m from x district. How are you today?’ which neutralizes a lot of aggression. Or I just go nuclear and start punching and stamping on feet. Or verbally nuclear: I’m not nice and I’m loud. It depends what mood I’m in, and whether it’s just some knobhead, or it’s a serious nutter. The thing is, a lot of women (and men faced with aggression too) just freeze and quietly take it. They sort of disassociate from the situation and only think about what they should have done later, and this leads to guilt and shame for not being assertive, or smart enough to dodge it. I guess you have to teach kids to be alert and not let their fight or flight response overwhelm them. In almost any dangerous situation, evasion is the best tactic. If you freeze, the best thing is just to get yourself away, remove yourself from the situation because there’s no prize for ‘winning’, especially for a kid. I would tell her, if she were alone, to go and stand near some older women, perhaps women with children, but not to get off unless it were a busy place. I’d also tell her to talk into a phone, to her ‘Dad’, telling him when she’s going to be at the station, whether it’s a real call or not.
Me, my problem is ego and temper (I know, right? You can hardly believe it?) in that occasionally I get so angry I just lose my rag and won’t back down. I put myself in serious danger, but at the time, I DIDN’T CARE and wasn’t going to take it, whatever the outcome. I think it’s important for the occasional crazy woman to add the possibility of meeting someone crazier and more anti-social than the lone pervert, into the mix. 
Misogyny is clearly a problem in many countries, ‘with local characteristics’. In Taiwan, as it is with racism, a lot of it seems to be institutionalized or culturalized. That could well mitigate the need for many people to verbally degrade women, or foreigners, because the government has already done it for them.
A woman’s (foreigner’s) rights in a divorce is one such institutionalized discrimination that springs to mind.[/quote]
I dunno. I think there are more pissed fuck-ups on the street in my country than in Taiwan, but it doesn’t seem like a very nice culture: a bit too much of the creepy Japanese porny aesthetic. It’s hard for me to have much of a valid opinion because I was so different from the norm in Taipei and wasn’t really party to the institutional stuff. Any gropey stuff or harassment was drunk guys feeling my tits or based on the too-many-Hollywood-films idea that white women fuck everyone, all the time. The occasional bus or MRT arse-feeler.
Just a few thoughts. I’m not sure what would change things. It’s one for Taiwanese men to discuss, I guess.
Some of us did, and even commented on it, but received no response/reply.
Just for closure, the security gaurd and Mr Hall had their day in court.
The perpetrator pleaded guilty on all charges (not sure what exactly they were) and regretted his actions.
He pleaded for mercy since he has lost his job, respect and friends through this ordeal.
Seems like a good result. I saw chris on the plane a couple of days ago, would of liked to have a chat but im not very good at interacting with other humans on those long hellish flights…
[quote=“cyberguppy”]
He pleaded for mercy since he has lost his job, respect and friends through this ordeal.[/quote]
The question came up earlier of the company not being able to fire him. Someone suggested his contract might contain a behavior clause. If he fought the termination, presumably the company could rely on 行政院勞工委員會八十八年十二月二十日台八十八勞資二字第○○五二三五五號函, a CLA interpretation from 1999. It doesn’t specifically address public insult or stalking, but it states that behavior that would normally be irrelevant outside of the workplace can be a basis for firing under certain conditions. The company is supposed to specify this in its (government approved) work rules.
[quote=“行政院勞工委員會八十八年十二月二十日台八十八勞資二字第○○五二三五五號函”]一、事業單位勞工於工作時間內倘確實有從事「色情媒介行為者」，工作規則將之列為不經預告終止僱用事由，當無不可。至於工作時間外，以其屬勞工私人行為，惟若其行為已有違社會公共秩序、善良風俗，具有具體事實足資證明已損害事業單位形象及名譽時，事業單位於工作規則將其列入不經預告終止僱用事由，尚無不妥。
[/quote]
(“Outside of work time, it would be the worker’s private behavior, but if such behavior has violated social/public order or good customs [moral standards], when there is sufficient evidence to prove harm to the business entity’s image and reputation, the business entity’s work rules may include it as a cause for termination of employment without advance notice, and this is not improper.”)
[quote=“cyberguppy”]Just for closure, the security gaurd and Mr Hall had their day in court.
The perpetrator pleaded guilty on all charges (not sure what exactly they were) and regretted his actions.
He pleaded for mercy since he has lost his job, respect and friends through this ordeal.[/quote]
Kinda hard to imagine him having respect/friends to begin with, but still…I guess I feel a little sorry for the guy. It must be hard being him.
Does anybody remember how in the video he says “I’m not guilty of anything”?
LOL.
[quote=“andyj”]Does anybody remember how in the video he says “I’m not guilty of anything”?
LOL.[/quote]
Well, Taiwanese can talk bad about non Taiwanese for hours on end. When he said that, he was assuming that because he is Taiwanese in Taiwan and that the victim is white, he is simply asserting racial superiority for which no reasonable Taiwanese would expect to be arrested in Taiwan.
The only reason he got busted was because the video went worldwide and Taiwan lost massive face. His punishment was a message to Taiwanese : yes, we Taiwanese are still racist, but you better not make us lose face and look bad, even if we Taiwanese agree with you.