oh jeez, I think I will delete them. Don’t wanna get kicked out of the country, better be safe than sorry.
Just to add:
its interesting how more of the higher use ones have some of the most oppressive laws around, and places that are lower like Portugal and other euro countries have fewer. exceptions sure. there are lots of interesting stories around about various countries doing drug law reform/experimentation to loosen the shackles a bit and in some cases even help their people with the harder more dangerous substances. Whereas other places, Australia, are hardcore in their race to beat the US on whacky law count.
Let’s see posters guesses on where taiwan fits on that map. Copy the image, paste into your own image software, add a red dot for taiwan, uload somewhere, and link to it here.
Thanks!
if we include betel nut, alcohol and tobacco i would put it somewhere around NZ as far as drug use goes. but that graph only compares countries to each other without any reference which makes it kind of useless. I’m always shocked at jsut how common drugs are here. I have fairly detailed conversations about alcohol and domestic abuse with my students in kindergarten-grade 3. when i go to kenting and get all red, i am accused of being drunk by at least 5 students the next day and even a few parents. freaky.
cuz asians get red from drinking really fast and easily. fact. and i guess kenting is known as a partying and drinking town.
Well, im not asian, im white, but i see that. the part that shocked me is its so common 6 years can pick out drunkards and parents think its semi-ok that i would show up drunk (i wasnt drunk by the way, just sun burnt), we dont live near a party town either.
In regards to ILLEGAL drugs
There is a serious drug problem here right in Taipei county. I have unfortunately had problems with family members and synthetic drugs such as Ketamine. Ketamine is available in most senior high schools in Taipei or certainly easily available to those high school kids that want it. The Ketamine problem here is VERY serious. It is not a nice drug at all and causes severe bladder problems as well as dependence (and why Cannabis is classed as more serious than “Ket” I will never know).
There is also a large problem with Ice (crystal meth) and a smaller one with heroin in Taiwan. When I first came here in the 1980’s Ice was everywhere I sometimes witnessed gangsters smoking it openly in night clubs now the problem seems to have gone more underground but it is here for sure.
Most of my foreign friends in those days were also Ice addicts and were supplied by Taiwanese. Some quit the habit and some died. Around 50/50
Anyways Ket is the number one problem here these days in regards to drugs whereas it was once crystal meth (ice),
Above is based on my own observations below is some info from wiki about Ketamine use is Taiwan
"
A survey conducted among school-attending Taiwanese adolescents reported prevalence rates of 0.15% in 2004, 0.18% in 2005, and 0.15% in 2006 in middle-school (grades 7 and 9) students; in Taiwanese high-school (grades 10 and 12) students, prevalence was 1.13% in 2004, 0.66% in 2005, and 0.44% in 2006.[23] From the same survey, a large portion (42.8%) of those who reported ecstasy use also reported ketamine use.[23] Ketamine was the second most abused illicit drug (behind ecstasy) in absconding Taiwanese adolescents as reported by a multi-city street outreach survey.[24] In a study comparing the reporting rates between web questionnaires and paper-and-pencil questionnaires, ketamine use was reported a higher rate in the web version.[25] Urine sampling at a club in Taipei, Taiwan showed high rates of ketamine use at 47.0%; this prevalence was compared with that of detainees suspected of drug abuse in the general public, of which 2.0% of the samples tested positive for ketamine use.[26]"
Keep in mind that Ketamine is rapidly expelled from the body meaning that testing probably under-estimates its use in comparison to other drugs whose metabolites hang around longer in the body. Apparently Ecstacy is widely used as well, all I can say is that personally I have seen a lot of Meth, Ket and heroin here but not much E.
Yes the drugs are widely used but are they really causing huge issues for society in general, I just don’t see it yet. I think a lot of kids and students experiment but few go on to be active users in adulthood.
Doesn’t this same ‘fear’ rear it’s head every ten years or so. When I came here first there were loads of illegal dance clubs and there was a lot of paranoia and police raids to shut down the drug dens.
Meth is a terrible drug though from what I’ve seen of the epidemic in the US, addictive and highly damaging to physical and mental health, again though more a side effect of the economy than anything else I’d say.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]Yes the drugs are widely used but are they really causing huge issues for society in general, I just don’t see it yet. I think a lot of kids and students experiment but few go on to be active users in adulthood.
Doesn’t this same ‘fear’ rear it’s head every ten years or so. When I came here first there were loads of illegal dance clubs and there was a lot of paranoia and police raids to shut down the drug dens.
Meth is a terrible drug though from what I’ve seen of the epidemic in the US, addictive and highly damaging to physical and mental health, again though more a side effect of the economy than anything else I’d say.[/quote]
Yah I would agree that they are not causing a huge effect on society in general as in say the US or UK.
Meth was a definite exception and in those days as it was starting to effect wider society. Ket causes some problems here but nothing on the scale that meth did back in the day.
Ket mainly causes serious urinary tract problems, some dependence (not as much as heroin though) and is also used as a date rape drug. I am still not sure how the Taiwan gorvernment curbed that meth explosion of the 80’s and early 90’s so well, but they were successful at curbing it; much more successful than our own governments in curbing the use of hard drugs. (I don’t have stats or a link that is just personal observation)
[quote]Yes the drugs are widely used but are they really causing huge issues for society in general, I just don’t see it yet. I think a lot of kids and students experiment but few go on to be active users in adulthood.
Doesn’t this same ‘fear’ rear it’s head every ten years or so. When I came here first there were loads of illegal dance clubs and there was a lot of paranoia and police raids to shut down the drug dens.
Meth is a terrible drug though from what I’ve seen of the epidemic in the US, addictive and highly damaging to physical and mental health, again though more a side effect of the economy than anything else I’d say.[/quote]
though meth is really nasty shit, dirty tainted meth seems to be far worse. One, of many, reason that the drug scene here is not as damaging as it is in say the USA is because the government hasnt really gone to war with it. What is/has happening in the states is nothing short of criminal, and its gone too far in the other direction on all sorts of different substances. Here it isnt, and that translates directly into (usually) more pure product. lesser of 2 evils. Also getting caught with drugs in the US can literally fuck your entire life and lose everything, here is generally not nearly as oppressive.
[quote]Yup, and we’re all racist cunts too.
And sweeping generalisers to a T.[/quote]
They were not being racist at all, it had literally nothing to do with the fact im white. It has to do with the severe alcohol abuse in homes here. I would say any given day 5+ students come to our school on the back of a scooter that has a drunk person operating it. Its not that they think white people party, its just they see red and the first thing they assume is alcohol because here they dont go in the sun and they drink heavily, so it makes sense to assume it. But its scary to see such young kids have such a firm grip on drugs. I dont drink anymore, and i didnt when i first came, so we always tell them i dont drink at all, and they get it. there is not hugely negative impact on it, just shocking for me to see young chillins know about this stuff like its a part of everyday life.
also need to keep in mind drugs play a vital role in the economy here. stimulants are used a lot here because they drive people to work shitty long hours. betel nut, nicotine, caffiene, meth etc are all used commonly, and are widespread island wide. cracking down hard core just on amphetamines i bet would cause a noticeable dip in manufacturing output and would surely slow down delivery times.
here’s the latest news of an american celebrity needing rehab:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/23/showbiz/green-day-substance-abuse/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
how come no taiwanese music or acting star ever has major drug problems and needs rehab?? why is everyone so well behaved there even people in the entertainment industry??? why???
Simply because the “west” is by far THE most oppressive cultures when it comes to substances. Be it food, medicine or narcotic. The war on drugs (probably better named war on substances as many people find drugs synonymous with narcotics, despite it not being the same) has gone on for centuries, all the way back to europe. When you look at what has happened it is likely the most devastating form of genocide caused by man on record. The west has a fetish for demonizing anything it does not readily accept and oppressing those who do not conform. Which hunts were exactly that. And though there has been slight alteration, essentially witch hunting never stopped and continues on to today.
there has been oppressive prohibition over numerous natural products, even coffee. it has not ever worked long term, and continues to not work (despite incredible loss of life, assets and general quality of life). once we start getting just the tiniest bit responsible for our actions and not demand government hand outs when we muck up our bodies due to eating something poisonous, then the government might actually loosen its grip. Drink too much, legal but you pay for the bill of putting yourself back together.
It is ironic how the control of most substances often, if not always, far exceeds the damage done by taking said substances. And now a days we have nastier shit, eg meth, and also dirtier stuff (directly caused by controlling it) which ignorant folks in power always lump together with legitimate, or at least not so harmful ones, to ban everything across the board. Thankfully in the USA right now they have gotten so power hungry and radical in government policy there will likely be a tipping point where their whole show gets blown back in their face. they are pushing their nanny state too fast in some areas, such as food, i think and people are actually noticing it now.
But why does Taiwan, seemingly, not have this mass oppression like the west? not sure. Asia surely has its fair share of ego trippers, so i really dont get it either.
I would hardly say the ‘West’ is the most oppressive. How about the Middle East and North Asia?
Sure Taiwan is liberal with regard to betelnuts and cigarettes and alcohol, although cigarette smoking is getting pretty difficult now. I wish they would ban betelnut altogether, that’s the worst of all.
[quote]I would hardly say the ‘West’ is the most oppressive. How about the Middle East and North Asia?
Sure Taiwan is liberal with regard to betelnuts and cigarettes and alcohol, although cigarette smoking is getting pretty difficult now. I wish they would ban betelnut altogether, that’s the worst of all.[/quote]
When it comes to controlled substances, i dont think anywhere even comes close to “the west”. And by the west i mean places like present day USA and Australia.
Asia and middle east seem to have harsher maximum penalties, granted, but there is no where near the actual amount of forced oppression and hunting down of people like in the west. I am not talking about general oppression, I am only talking about oppression related to consumption of substances. I know this is kind of cliche now, but when government forces storm your place for selling health food without their stamp of approval (which costs unreal amounts of money to just get tested), you know you are in a scary fucking place. Machine guns and handcuffs, for raw foods. Thats oppression at its finest. It used to be easy to demonize healers as witches and medical pot growers as heartless thugs. But people are opening their eyes a bit because now its not just narcotics that are being controlled but food, and i think its this that is going to be the melting point for the masses. I hope so at least. The idea of being threatened with guns, loosing your home, assets and family for self medicating, practicing some obscure religion, or just having fun is pretty damn scary no matter how we try and twist it.
On the flip side, if someone is a chronic drinker, i dont see why the gov should be expected to foot the bill and there is a degree of self responsibility which people never tend to think about. its not black and white, there is an entire spectrum of issues and people just need to back the fuck off, let people do what they do and let them also deal with the consequences. But this mentality in most societies we deem respectable is pretty much not allowed.
The difference here in contrast to places in the west is that the government here does not spend a lot of energy going out to hunt people who use drugs, not in the same way the west does. Though there is oppression here as well, no doubt, there is certainly a far greater “live and let live” policy here i find, and this is the main reason i choose to continue living here. If i want my house to look shitty, no one can do anything. Back in Canada the gov would threaten the title of my land. There are problems with that way as well, but ultimately i prefer a more self responsible type lifestyle than one filled with rules and policies which directly interfere with my personal freedoms.
@pindong, are you saying that countries that arent oppressive about drugs would have less of a drug problem? in that case you can cite the example you used regarding taiwan’s laxed attitude regarding property maintenance. if taiwan was laxed about drug use, perhaps they would have a bigger drug problem.
on a side note, i wish the govt was as strict about property maintenance as they are in the west. there’s no reason why a country like taiwan with a population as educated, cultured, and hi-tech with a per capita income higher than some european countries should continue looking like a third world country with citizens still living with a mentality and habits like that of a third world country. i just dont understand why home owners would spend more money decorating interiors to luxurious standards yet dont care one ounce about exterior appearances. who would want to live in a place that looks like a shithouse no matter how nice the insides are?
[quote=“Pingdong”]
When it comes to controlled substances, I don’t think anywhere even comes close to “the west”. And by the west I mean places like present day USA and Australia.
Asia and middle east seem to have harsher maximum penalties, granted, but there is no where near the actual amount of forced oppression and hunting down of people like in the west. I am not talking about general oppression, I am only talking about oppression related to consumption of substances. I know this is kind of cliche now, but when government forces storm your place for selling health food without their stamp of approval (which costs unreal amounts of money to just get tested), you know you are in a scary fucking place. Machine guns and handcuffs, for raw foods. Thats oppression at its finest. It used to be easy to demonize healers as witches and medical pot growers as heartless thugs. But people are opening their eyes a bit because now its not just narcotics that are being controlled but food, and I think its this that is going to be the melting point for the masses. I hope so at least. The idea of being threatened with guns, losing your home, assets and family for self medicating, practicing some obscure religion, or just having fun is pretty damn scary no matter how we try and twist it.
On the flip side, if someone is a chronic drinker, I don’t see why the gov should be expected to foot the bill and there is a degree of self responsibility which people never tend to think about. its not black and white, there is an entire spectrum of issues and people just need to back the fuck off, let people do what they do and let them also deal with the consequences. But this mentality in most societies we deem respectable is pretty much not allowed.
The difference here in contrast to places in the west is that the government here does not spend a lot of energy going out to hunt people who use drugs, not in the same way the west does. Though there is oppression here as well, no doubt, there is certainly a far greater “live and let live” policy here I find, and this is the main reason i choose to continue living here. If I want my house to look shitty, no one can do anything. Back in Canada the gov would threaten the title of my land. There are problems with that way as well, but ultimately i prefer a more self responsible type lifestyle than one filled with rules and policies which directly interfere with my personal freedoms.[/quote]
Can’t speak for the US, but in Australia unless one has commercial quantities no one really cares. Not the police, not the courts. They don’t waste a lot of time hunting drug users, and if a user is arrested for something, they’re more than likely offered a rehab place or given a slap on the wrist as punishment.
The situation isnt so 2 dimensional, there are more, far more, aspects to it than regulation and direct quantity of use. The word drug alone makes things cloudy. But some countries have loosened their grip on “drug” laws and seen a very positive change. Case in point, Portugal.
[quote]
Can’t speak for the US, but in Australia unless one has commercial quantities no one really cares. Not the police, not the courts. They don’t waste a lot of time hunting drug users, and if a user is arrested for something, they’re more than likely offered a rehab place or given a slap on the wrist as punishment.[/quote]
That may be true on a person to person basis with individual police, the story is far different with customs! In Australia one such fun law is a container plant equates to pure product. This means if you had 1kg of marijuana it can be treated as 1 kg of pure THC. Now for other drugs where the raw product is more unknown, say like ayahuasca, the raw herb will be treated as pure product. And in these cases it is always fought in court where it depends entirely on the judge and how much of a dick he or she is. But maybe i was wrong comparing Aus to US, at least on the streets. But the laws there are incredibly strict. You cannot even buy legitimate herbs form out of country unless it is manufactured and packaged by a large company (meaning you cannot import raw herbs or herbs without “industry standard” type packaging). I’m not sure what its like within the borders, other than living flora/fauna rules between states. But then they ban certain species as potential invasive species. Species such as a cactus which takes 5 years in great conditions to make a flower and then makes 5 seeds per flower and dies relatively easily. Just strange, but i give htem credit for taking a new approach to limiting peoples access to food, medicine and drugs.
The problem with any such oppressive laws is that they exist and are in place ready to be abused. Though i know a number of Ausie folk arrested for rather ridiculous things. Australia has also proposed some of the strangest laws, but sticking with the OT they tried to pull this one: foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/0 … ns-nature/
I dont think they got far, there is only so much stupidity a nation can handle in a short period.
Netherlands has one of the most liberal drug use laws in the world, I don’t know about customs but the law is more or less “tolerance”, meaning that drugs are illegal the government chooses not to enforce them and tolerate their presence. Drug use (regardless of type) is actually not against the law, meaning if you did Heroin and overdosed, you can (and should) go to a hospital and tell them you’ve OD’ed on heroin. Punishment for various drug violations are relatively light, but I don’t know if trafficking is heavily penalized in the Netherlands.
They have one of the lowest drug use in the world too, it seems the only one who does marijuana is tourists in The Netherlands…
Drugs kill many young people in Taiwan. Although not to the extent of many other countries. But the problem exists.
Here is the case of a man who was on drugs (not sure what kind) and finally killed his ten year old son and his stepmom in a fit of anger over the lack of money from his drug habit and gambling. He wasn’t bringing home enough money due to his habit.