Taiwan has room for another political party

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

Okay, the pan-greens have the “nationalism” issue nailed down. People who feel nationalistic, vote for them. The KMT is now wondering whether to imitate them, which seems ridiculous, or keep on clinging to their original (and unpopular) view on nationalism.

I think though, there is a whole 'nother major category of political party possible here–namely a political party whose appeal is economic rather than patriotic. The number of people here who love money, could rival the number who love Taiwan!

Imagine a group of filthy rich people, coming together and starting an explicitly pro-business political party. The economy would always be the Number One issue for them. Corollaries would include low taxes, less government, and while seeking as much autonomy as Taiwan can manage (cheaper not to pay taxes, better for business not to have China interfering with it), they would not be ideologically committed to either independence or unification. The easiest way to sell it would be “status quo forever, or failing that, the best we can get”, and do their best to not do anything at all that touches the issue.

I think this would sell. I also think that it would be difficult for the pan-blues to occupy this political niche, as much as they might like to. The main problem is that they give the impression right now of being incompetent, which is hardly persuasive as a platform for a business-oriented party.

2

The (excellent) idea of establishing another political party that would be neither pan-green nor pan-blue occasionally gets floated, but so far nobody has put up the money that would make it possible.

You might recall the talk last year about creating a “pan-purple” party. However, the people pushing this idea were not wealthy pro-business types, but rather more along the lines of pro-labor, middle-class, and disgusted with the stupid grandstanding fuck-up politicians slinging mud and spouting idiotic slogans. Since they weren’t rich, they couldn’t raise the NT$10 million bond which is required to put a presidential candidate’s name on the ballot. During the election, most of the potential pan-purples wound up not voting, or deliberately spoiling their ballots (which accounts for the record number of spoiled ballots in that election).

Going back further in time (early 1990s), when the New Party as first formed, it almost fit the definition of being a reform-minded, anti-corruption pro-business party without much Nationalist political baggage. The NP experienced a brief surge of popularity - they gained 21 seats in the National Assembly, and came a close 2nd place to Chen Shuibian in the Taipei mayoral election. Unfortunately, the NP’s reform agenda didn’t last long - the KMT hardliners who detested Lee Tenghui saw their chance and jumped in with both feet, and took over the party, transforming its ideology from “reform” to “reunification.” The reformists left the party in disgust, and the NP has (deservedly) declined to near extinction.

In the early days of the PFP, some people held out the hope that it could become a reform-minded party. However, James Soong has made that impossible - for him, the PFP is simply his path to power (at least in his dreams). Unless he does us all a favor and emigrates to The Congo, the PFP will probably soon go down the toilet, joining the NP in oblivion.

Similarly, the KMT will probably never be able to reform itself unless the old mainlanders (including Lien Chan) do us all a favor and move back to the mainland soon. There are younger people in the party who would like to stop the corruption and aren’t committed to a reunification agenda either, but they can do nothing while the doddering old thieves continue clinging to power.

So yes, a “third way” based on economic development, anti-corruption and not changing the status quo (as regards China) sounds like it would make sense. But when did common sense ever prevail against character assassination, flag-waving and empty slogans?

still digging the bomb shelter,
Robert

“The president is always in need of new cliches.”

  • White House intern
3

Despite what you say about the KMT not being able to do this, I think you are describing the only survival method for the KMT.

Filthy rich? I think the KMT qualifies on that one …

Well, given that they’ve pretty much disavowed LTH (and so the political reform carried out under him), the economy is their clear strong suit. Whether you think they were really responsible for it, it’s undeniable that the last 20 years of KMT rule saw a huge economic boom.

But how would that work? Surely a pro-business party would do whatever it could to e.g. open the 3-links and improve economic links with the PRC. So, they’ll accept the One China principle then. That’s consistent with the KMT. Surely a purely pro-business party would be more pro-unification that the KMT is today?

Well, sure they need to clear out the incompetent goons at the top. They need to do that whatever path they take.

I’ve left the strongest reason why you’re describing the KMT to the last:
A filthy rich, pro-business party in Taiwan would be synonymous with corruption on a massive scale. Now, who has the most experience in that area?

4

[quote=“robert_storey”]Unless [James Soong] does us all a favor and emigrates to The Congo, the PFP will probably soon go down the toilet, joining the NP in oblivion.[/quote]Gee Robert, I had no idea you bore such a grudge against The Congo. :astonished: :wink:

5

I assume the number is about this now. Given this, do you not think that at least some of these parties are concerned about the economy or whatever issues you are thinking about? Do we really need another political party? Perhaps the Screaming Jesus Party? Sounds like a winner to me.
Seems either cooperation or reformation would be more in line with achieving your goal.

6

Any fool with a bit of money can announce a new political party. Throw in a bit of brains, and their party can even have a rational-sounding ideology. But selling the result to the people is another matter entirely. Who would the electorate find credible?

That’s why I mentioned the filthy rich–because they’d command respect here. I don’t see second-tier KMT / PFP people as having this kind of charisma, let alone the sort of people who found the other 90 or so parties whose existence is basically a waste of time. You want leaders who ordinary business people would trust to champion their interests. At a minimum, they must seem competent and successful.

Soong’s party was an impressive accomplishment in the beginning (like Perot, I guess), but now it gives the impression of just being a vehicle for him. Whatever comes of their relations with the KMT, their day is basically over.

Bribes primarily flow to those who have power, which describes the KMT less and less. I don’t see why hard-nosed business types would waste their money on what is basically a dying concern. If the KMT seriously wants to survive, I’d say their best bet would be to institute democratic primaries–give whoever wants to take over the party, whatever candidates (Ma Ying-jeou I guess) their little hearts desire.

Yeah, I guess a pro-business party would probably sign the dotted line which says Taiwan is a part of China, if that seemed to promise economic benefits.

7

A reformed KMT under the leadership of capable, highly experienced and patriotic (pro-Taiwan) technocrats like Vincent Siew and P.K. Chiang would fit the bill very nicely.

And they could embrace Siew’s platform of pushing for the establishment of a cross-strait common market modeled on the process of European integration.

8

[quote=“robert_storey”]The (excellent) idea of establishing another political party that would be neither pan-green nor pan-blue occasionally gets floated, but so far nobody has put up the money that would make it possible.

You might recall the talk last year about creating a “pan-purple” party. However, the people pushing this idea were not wealthy pro-business types, but rather more along the lines of pro-labor, middle-class, and disgusted with the stupid grandstanding fuck-up politicians slinging mud and spouting idiotic slogans. […]

So yes, a “third way” based on economic development, anti-corruption and not changing the status quo (as regards China) sounds like it would make sense. But when did common sense ever prevail against character assassination, flag-waving and empty slogans?
[/quote]

From my point of view, both green and blue are too much in thrall to the rich and powerful in Taiwan.

That pan-purple group still exists and issues press releases from time to time, I think. It was called the ‘Alliance for Justice and Fairness’ as far as I recall.

The economic and political elite of this country have served the ordinary people of this country so badly. I would love to see the emergence of a moderate, left-of-centre party that could begin to build some the social cohesion that is so needed in this society… or at least encourage a coherent and rational policy-making process.

And to think the DPP is affiliated with the Liberal International (along with, for example, the Liberal Democrats and the Alliance Party in the UK). The mind boggles!

9

Interesting, Screaming Jesus calls for the rich to establish a party:

While Kategelan pans the monied political establishment:

May I mention that the last serious party formed, the TSU, was funded in part by billionaire Lin Rong-san of the Liberty Times, Union Bank and others. Rumor had it that the sum he put in was NT$1,000,000,000 or so.
Is the TSU serving your needs?

10

Well I think it would be difficult since flithy rich people on Taiwan are also divided on the Strait Issue.

But there is always the Taiwan Business Committee in PRC made up of Taishang. They always request that Taiwan politicains tone down a bit.

11

[quote=“ac_dropout”]Well I think it would be difficult since flithy rich people on Taiwan are also divided on the Strait Issue.

But there is always the Taiwan Business Committee in PRC made up of Taishang. They always request that Taiwan politicains tone down a bit.[/quote]

They are hardly a political party… Rather some businessmen saying anything to keep themselves in business.

Would not expect them to be elected here on that platform they have to espouse there…

12

Mr He,

I would have to agree with you that Taishang living in PRC do not have the time to form a political party on Taiwan.

The other point about a political party of rich people, is that they would be extremely unpopular with the masses and just make themselves and their family a nice visible target for kidnappers.

13

The spectrum of (wellknown) parties: DPP, KMT, PFP, TSU and the New Party, all have different opinions on unification. The right to left in Taiwan goes from who wants unification to who wants independence.
As long as this stays the major issue in Taiwan politics, I believe any new parties would have to be clear on their positioning in this issue. Anything else becomes secondary.

14

The Me First Party

15

Lysfjord, I don’t think the China / Taiwan issue has to BE the major issue. It’s only because the KMT / PFP have allowed the DPP to set the agenda for their political debate, that it has. But most people probably care more about economic concerns. The moment the DPP can’t deliver on that, it’s vulnerable.

I agree that a new (viable) party would have to be consistent and clear about its attitude toward China. I suggest the best course would be to mirror the most usual attitude among people here, and strongly support the status quo. The DPP is vulnerable on this too, I think.

16

[quote=“lysfjord”]The spectrum of (wellknown) parties: DPP, KMT, PFP, TSU and the New Party, all have different opinions on unification. The right to left in Taiwan goes from who wants unification to who wants independence.
As long as this stays the major issue in Taiwan politics, I believe any new parties would have to be clear on their positioning in this issue. Anything else becomes secondary.[/quote]

That’s what’s so disgusting about Taiwan politics (well actually, there are a lot of things disgusting about politics, and not just in Taiwan). There are numerous major issues facing Taiwan that are just being totally ignored while the Neanderthal politicians slug it out over boneheaded “issues” like who loves Taiwan, call Taiwan Taiwan, the design of the national flag, the national anthem, etc.

I wonder, for example, how many people realize that the government is teetering close to bankruptcy? If the pan-Blues weren’t so focused on cross-strait issues, they would (should) be making the national debt crisis the centerpiece of their campaign in the upcoming legislative elections. But no, there’s not a word said about it. And if somebody within the DPP were to stand up and criticize the government’s lack of interest in balancing the budget, he/she would immediately be labeled “pro-China” and “disciplined” (probably kicked out of the party).

I could think of about a dozen major issues which are plaguing Taiwan but arent’ being discussed at all, or at least not in any serious way. Just as in America, the McWalmart crowd has a short attention span, and prefers sound bites to meaningful discourse.

But I guess it’s the same all over - any good politician knows, the way to get elected is to wave the flag, babble some clever slogans, make totally unrealistic promises, and accuse your opponent of having sex with an altar boy.

“A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage”
? Herbert Hoover, 1928

Robert

“Two Koreans can form three political parties.”

  • Lee Byung-chull, founder of Samsung, in his biography
17

[quote=“robert_storey”]
That’s what’s so disgusting about Taiwan politics (well actually, there are a lot of things disgusting about politics, and not just in Taiwan). There are numerous major issues facing Taiwan that are just being totally ignored while the Neanderthal politicians slug it out over boneheaded “issues” like who loves Taiwan, call Taiwan Taiwan, the design of the national flag, the national anthem, etc.[/quote]I think that this a corollary of such a free press, and one that is so polar on this issue. It reminds me of India where it’s obvious that the media effectively controls political dialogue by focusing on certain issues at the exclusion of all others. It gets to point where politicians are only discussing issues that the media is focused on for fear of appearing either to have nothing to say (no coverage) or ignoring the key issues (which the media itself has decided on).

Oh, and that Korean quote sounds like the old adage about 2 Israelis equalling 3 factions.

18

The KMT was/is the richest political party in the world. See what wonders having lots of money can do for your morality?

19

[quote=“ac_dropout”]In Japnese Yen CSB would be a billionaire. Not that I would suggest CSB would want to merge with Japan to inflate his personal wealth.

But I think is was just a figure of speech to illustrate CSB has become much more wealthy than your average ROC citizen.[/quote]

Oh yeah, and Yugoslav Dinars, I would be a billionaire too… :loco:

He’s more wealthy then your average rice farmer… and so what… Links to the sources please, and not to the KMT links, which are worthless, given the highly dubious source.

20

Looking at the last posts in this thread it seems pretty obvious that the position as the party representing the filthy rich is taken.

So a viable challenging party should perhaps act as a stinkin’ poor party? :slight_smile: A raving left-wing perhaps? An anarchistic, social left-wing party? (to differentiate with the commies).

:stuck_out_tongue:

Ofcourse, it’s always possible to focus on the character of the leader of the party and just forget about policies. Works everywhere!