The camera mentality is akin to that of car-towing. What a waste of time and resources, not to mention the disruption to traffic when the tow-truck arrives.
Surely the draconian punishments should come after a intensive effort at public education. I don’t watch the Chinese TV channels much, but i rarely see any public information ads. Oh, there is that stupid turtle cartoon character, but those ads are just targeting drunk drivers I think.
Anyone remember Tufty?
2. Damn straight crack down on them scooters. They are such a pain anyway.
I never said that. I said enforce the rules - and they apply to all motorists, not only scooters.
3. People should get tickets for breaking the law, no matter how tiny. How else are they going to learn?
“How tiny” is tiny, i.e. where do you draw the line?
Fact is this would come down to personal interpretion and point of view and thus never reach a common consensus.
Some people might think reckless driving or drunk driving is only a “tiny” break of the law.
If you have clear rules and regulations then there is nothing to argue about, no matter “how tiny” you think it is.
4. And being 2 centimeters over the white line is “sheer ignorance” or represents sheer ignorance.
Towards the law, yes. Or what else do you call it?
Nobody forces him to stand on or over the line, so stop making excuses for your own (or others) misconduct.
5. You shouldn’t complain when you get a ticket cause you know them laws. Just shutup and pay up.
Well, at least I can admit to my mistakes and take responsibility for my actions.
But perhaps you can’t!? Go and scream at the cop, yell at the judge, write a letter to the president or bitch around in public - but it doesn’t change the fact that you are at fault and that it was your decision to break the rules.
6. Cameras are used elsewhere, so what’s the problem with them in Taiwan? Gosh, Australia does it, and you can even look it up on the Web! Golly gee wilikers!
Your point being?
7. Germany is such a perfect example of a driver’s utopia. [We could even be like Sinapore!!!]
Care to elaborate?
My point is actually that people are aware of hefty fines and thus the overall conditions on German roads are far better then in most Asian countries I have been.
While driving in Malaysia I had no hesitation to speed on the freeway when traffic conditions allowed so, because I knew I will get away with NT$500 no matter how fast I actually go.
But I know if I do the same in Germany I will not only have to pay a hefty fine but also may loose my license; thus I drive closer to the limit (if imposed on certain stretches or other roads).
Sure, we do have people breaking the rules and we have accidents, but be honest - Asian countries are some of the most dangerous places to be on the road.
8. Maybe we should reward cops for corrupt behavior with bonuses.
Thanks for not allowing me to make up and express my own opinion. If you think it’s not a good idea or you have something better in mind then why don’t you argue (friendly) or write down how you would solve this?
Reaction like yours usually come only from people who can’t abide the rules nor admit to their mistake when being caught.
That said there are situations when you are perhaps forced to bend, even break, the rules but that’s hardly applicable to everyone all the time.
Surely there is more to it than fining people, traffic education in Asia is pretty much non-existent and often enough I see parents or older drivers setting a bad example, yet I think fining is a good way to create “awareness”. But more than that needs to be done.
Can’t shoot them, can we? 
Can you address “the spirit of this topic?”
Not sure if I want to because I see a contradiction in your statement: you say using the camera is cowardly and then scream “corruption”.
So how can you acuse the cop taking the picture of corruption if he makes a record and you don’t pay the fine to him?
Furthermore I find your conclusions of “the real issues” rather absurd and lacking any substance, a nice theory or personal opinion but nothing more in my humble opinion.
But yes, the entire police cum government is corrupt - but they don’t need to write tickets for cashing in on you, just raise the taxes or whatever.
I think your argument related to this topic / particular case is flawed, not to mention that you admitted not having a clue what this picture is actually all about …
Goddammit, Monkey, I sincerely hope your post is not some kind of lame attempt at denigrating Tufty.
As a former member of the Tufty Club (class of '67), I can attest to the principles upon which Tufty and his wee pals based their creed.
World domination, my arse! And you should know better than to even infer such a heinous idea.
Your punishment is to recite the Kerb Drill 25 times while standing on your head in the bus lane on Songjiang Rd.
Shame on you!
[quote]Quote:
This just proves that how many people (locals and foreigners) think that it’s OK to break a law just because it’s just a tiny mistake and the police should focus only on big events.
Gally Gong wrote:
That really isn’t brought up here in this thread. [/quote]
Well, you probably have amnesia. Look back to your very first post in this thread. Aren’t you the person who brought up this issue by relating to “fining little violations that are so innocent” to “corrupt cops”? Cops may be corrupt, but your argument is so slim.
So what is being discussed here? Are cops corrupt? I don’t think that’s even an issue - everybody knows the answer to that.
Should cops be nitpicking on the little things?
IMHO, yes, but only after they nitpick to some level of success on things such as running red lights, illegally parking and blocking traffic, turning right from left hand lanes, turning left from right hand lands, and other dangerous activities. I think if they came down hard on those offenders, people wouldn’t complain at all (or nearly as much) about the little things.
Does that mean I won’t pay if I’m fined for little things, even though there’s no effort on the larger issues? Of course I’ll pay. But I’ll bitch about it too. Blame it on my ethnocentric attitude of expecting police to be enforce laws fairly, protect citizens and maintain order.
The law is the law, and it should be followed, but of course it’s going to piss people off when three people run the red light and almost run over pedestrians while the cop gives you a ticket for not having two rear view mirrors.
Besides, there’s no police in Taiwan. They’re just the IRS with guns.
That’s strange. I haven’t got any fines yet, but then, I have only been driving an average of 110km a day for the last 6 months.
Cameras aren’t corrupt. Come on 
If they pull you over and give you a ticket without providing any reason, now that’s corruption, but sending parking and speeding tickets through the mail? They do that the place I’m from and the police force there is one of the least corrupt on the planet.
I’m all in favour of cameras and fines. Whenever I see a policeman wielding a camera with intent, I beam with approval. And when I see a guardian of Taiwan’s law issuing a ticket, I positively gush with approbation.
The lawlessness on Taiwan’s roads is the single factor that most reduces the quality of life on this island. One of the main reasons why I feel so good when I go to Penghu is that the traffic laws are stringently enforced there in a most unTaiwanese way, so that using the roads, as motorist or pedestrian, is the almost totally unthreatening convenience and pleasure that it should be.
The more strictly the traffic laws are enforced here, the better I’ll like it. Mere persuasion, moral exhortation, the sweet chimes of reason, are totally ineffectual with most Taiwanese. The only thing that works is hitting them with fines when they transgress, and making it more than likely that transgressions will be caught on film, transgressors will be fined, and payment of fines will be stringently enforced.
Just look how well it worked with the motorcycle helmet law. Remember how it was in the old days, with so many people riding helmetless? Efforts to make them change their ways proved totally futile – until the big crackdown and strict imposition of on-the-spot fines. And then, lo and behold, what a miraculous transformation overnight! One hardly saw anyone riding unhelmeted. The crackdown was maintained, the habit of wearing a helmet became ingrained, and how many lives have been saved and terrible injuries prevented as a result?
It isn’t at all difficult to obey the traffic laws. They’re there for a very good purpose, and should be obeyed for the good of all. I have been riding motorbikes and scooters on Taiwan for a dozen years or more, and I’ve been fined only once (a parking ticket, issued about ten years ago – it was actually a mistake, but with such a trifling sum involved it wouldn’t have been worth contesting, so I just went ahead and paid it without complaint). I ride on average 1,500 km. a month, and have clocked up nearly 200,000 km. of motoring on Taiwan’s roads. Not getting fined is really easy and not at all scary. Contending with those who flout the traffic laws is not at all easy and is often very scary indeed.
[quote]The lawlessness on Taiwan’s roads is the single factor that most reduces the quality of life on this island. [/quote] — Omniloquacious
Wow. I am speechless. Well, almost. 
You make it sound like people are routinely having shootouts, demolition derbys, road rage beatings, Deathrace 2000 point systems and Gone in 60 Seconds vehicle security.
I have been driving a Vespa here for the past 17 years. It is a bit chaotic, dirty at times (but cleaner than before) and the drivers are often rude…but I’ve never considered the traffic situation the overwhelming problem.
Anyway, you are all talking of the symptoms and not addressing the causes of poor law enforcement (which as I said in an earlier post, consists of much, much more than mere traffic cops).
Horror of horrors! That I could come even close to robbing you of your power of speech, Mr. Reinhold! That would be a severe disservice to perusers of this forum. I ought to be thoroughly photographed and heavily fined for straying so far beyond the pale.
But actually, your description does ring rather true of the mayhem on Taiwan’s roads … and pavements.
And symptoms do need to be treated, in addition to taking prophylactic measures and addressing underlying causes of malady.
I don’t think the photo is evidence of corruption, although corruption surely exists in the ranks of Taipei’s finest.
What bothers me is spotty, inconsistent enforcement of laws, because this just encourages us to become scofflaws. The motorcycle box for two point left turns is just one example. The box painted on the road can not always acccomodate the traffic intended for it. This means that the police enforcement of the laws becomes arbitrary and even whimsical, weakening my respect for both the police and for the by-laws they are enforcing. Can you imagine if the lines on the highway were narrowed so that none but the smallest cars could navigate the roads without breaking the laws? It would make the desire to uphold the laws of the land a little less compelling, wouldn’t it?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I have yet to see any proof that cops actually ticket those not stopping in the motorcycle turn box. The earlier post assumes this is a law, but I am not convinced.
For one thing, this box idea is a relatively new one and knowing how slowly the wheels of legislation turn, I seriously doubt there is a new law on the books regarding this.
And no doubt, uneven enforcement of laws is unacceptable. Has anyone ever seen a cop pull someone over (except on the freeways) for a moving violation? I don’t recall seeing this.
There are laws for everything on the books. They look lovely in print, fill vast stretches of shelf space, and are almost universally ignored.
I haven’t seen les flics issuing tickets for out-of-place riders – just sometimes crossly waving them back into bounds.
The box painted on the road can not always acccomodate the traffic intended for it.
I don’t ride a scooter but have noticed that not the size of the box is the problem but scooter drivers going straight, i.e. they cross the stop line and pedestrian crossing, then waiting in the box and taking away the space just to be ahead of the cars.
I assume this was not intended and the box is meant for scooters turning only!?
Please clarify if this is correct or not.
[quote]There are laws for everything on the books. They look lovely in print, fill vast stretches of shelf space, and are almost universally ignored.
[/quote]
Easily said, but this does not address the question at hand: Is there a law on the books stating that motorcyclists must come to a stop fully inside these boxes? My feeling is no.
Yes, the boxes are, in theory, for those making the turn.
The boxes ahead of the cars at the stop lights is a new addition too. I think that was a reasonably shrewd thing to do, one of the few smart ideas I’ve seen.
Wolf, a friend got fined for going over the white line and so, presumably, did the bloke in the photo. Wouldn’t any law that covered the breaches also cover the boxes.
These people are sure that the fine was for this and not for some other infraction that could have been misinterpreted for the box deal?
By the way, I have been told that if you fight a ticket, particularly a photo ticket, the adjudicator is pretty sympathetic, especially if you have the pic and can point out where you think the error (in the cop) lies.
I’ve never tried it, but it seems reasonable if you don’t want to cough up NT$600 or so.
A short story…a friend of my GF was waiting at a light and a copper approached her. He said that he was giving her a fine for crossing the white line. She was pissed off but pulled over to the side of the road to take the ticket. Mel (the friend) said that the cop was leering at her (she is a very attractive woman) and he said that she should accompany him to the copshop. Mel was very nervous and told him to give her a ticket there and then as she was late for work. He insisted that she go with him. Mel went into a panic, called a friend who worked at a TV news company for advice. TV friend told Mel that she’d be down with a TV camera. Mel told the cop what was happening. He told her to leave straight away. Mel stayed, cop left. Nothing else happened.
[quote=“Anonymous”]What rubbish, Flipper.
Its always seen as somehow 'cool" to slag off the West. However, let’s face it, the West has been far more successful at building free, civilised, and wealthy societies. The East has only “caught up” by adopting many of the features of the West.
[/quote]
please, go rent a clue before you try to flame a post you don’t comprehend. the same individual who admitted he doesn’t follow the traffic laws(some of which were designed to save lives…those of the drivers and the pedestrians) because he ONLY gets marginally more tickets breaking laws then goes on to slag on chinese culture as without morals.
do i need to explicate my post further? i was using a rhetorical question to highlight the inherent hypocrisy in galley’s post. comprende?
and please spare me the philosophy of western superiority bs. i grew up in the west. i’ve been on both sides of the argument. frankly, i don’t need someone throwing around gross generalizations(west = individual, east = collective) to convince me of anything. yes, yes, all eastern police forces are corrupt and all police forces in the west are angelic and look out only for the greater good. keep telling yourself that. the police in tokyo should go to los angeles or new york and learn how a police department SHOULD be run, right?
once again, in case you didn’t get it the first time, i was NOT slagging on the west, i was making fun of galley’s hyprocrisy. okthxbuhbye.
ps: if you’re going to flame someone, at least use a registered name.