Countrywatch mixes it up:
http://www.countrywatch.com/cw_country.asp?vCOUNTRY=37
China Airlines (Taiwan)
ICRT (Taiwan)
Stock exchanges:
Hong Kong
Taiwan
Shanghai
Really? The CIA isn’t acknowledging something? How strange.
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Originally posted by Flipper: looks like the cia isn't even acknowleding that the official name of the place is republic of china. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
The CIA could tell you…but then they’d have to kill you.
Have you considered contacting any of those US based “Taiwan rights” organizations and having them pursue this? Maybe they can launch a formal legal complaint.
Originally posted by Flipper:
quote[quote]looks like the CIA isn’t even acknowleding that the official name of the place is Republic of China.[/quote]That’s because the Americans have promised China that they only recognize “one China”. In fact, back around 1972 when the U.S. first recognized the PRC, the U.S. Congress passed a resolution stating that henceforth, the ROC would be called “Taiwan” so that there would only be one “China” in the world.
It wasn’t that long ago that all imported books/magazines/maps in Taiwan had censors go through marking out all references to “The Peoples Republic of China” and “The Mongolian Peoples Republic”. “Beijing” was marked out and “Nanking” was identified as the capitol of “The Republic of China”.
Please try to remember just who it was that started this stupidity.
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Originally posted by wwwright: One World - Nations Online Countries and Nations___Taiwanhttp://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/
Great…Here we see Taiwan lined up with such well-known “countries” as Svalbard and Jan Mayen Islands and Mayotte. Too bad the country names are so inconsistent - English: Taiwan, Republic of China; French: Taiwan, province de Chine; Chinese: T’ai Wan.
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Originally posted by M_Archey: Check out [url=http://www.countrywatch.com.]www.countrywatch.com.[/url] They claim to provide detailed information about "all 192 countries of the world". Taiwan does not appear on their list in any form. They used to include Taiwan in the drop down list for setting up user accounts, but dropped that recently.
Nice one Archey. This is just the kind of thing that I can’t believe and would love to see changed.
It never bothers me to hear BS coming from Chinese Communist Party members, however, I hate to see such things as you mention on sources outside of the People’s Republic of China.
I am glad to see President Chen speaking up, even if it does hurt my portfolio, if he doesn’t speak then who would, certainly not those PR Commie butt kissers Taipei Mayor Ma, KMT Chair Lien or PFP Gangster Soong.
Yes it does: It is there as a special section under China, as are Hong Kong and Macau.
Click here: Taiwan
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URL broken by question mark)
quote[quote] those PR Commie butt kissers Taipei Mayor Ma, KMT Chair Lien or PFP Gangster Soong. [/quote]Hobart
does wishing for eventual unification automatically make you a Commie butt kisser?
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Originally posted by salmon:Hobart
does wishing for eventual unification automatically make you a Commie butt kisser?
Yes, I think it does! Instead of talking about “eventual unification” they should be pushing the CCP in Beijing on human rights issues. How could they even think about eventual unification now?
Unification is a stupid pipe dream of old and dying mainlanders that came here in the 1940’s still day dreaming on the fading image in their head of good old China. But that China is gone now forever! They should get over it and talk about changing how the CCP governs in the PRC before they ever even think about a union of these two opposites.
The way the KMT and PFP talks is very similar to the way, the CCP officials and Xinhua (CCP Propaganda News Agency) talks and what they talk about! Openly criticize the CCP instead of being their mouthpiece in Taiwan, then I would stop calling the KMT and PFP PRC Commie Butt Kissers!
Alternatively:
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Instead of talking about “independence” they should be pushing the DPP in Taipei on economic and social issues. How could they even think about independence now?Independence is a stupid pipe dream of muddled foreigners and ageing activists dreaming of the days when they stood up to dictatorship. But that ROC is gone now forever! They should get over it and talk about changing how the DPP can improve the lives of the people before they ever even think about a declaration of independence.
Why is it that foreigners are among the most fanatical politicos on this island? Could it be that Hobart is right and that all unification supporters should just “get over” their “stupid pipe dream”?
Or could it be that Hobart displays the ridiculous arrogance of many foreigners who see all politics here in terms of straight independence / unification.
It’s surely not absurd to consider Taiwan and China parts of a divided nation, nor to want Taiwan to formalize its independence.
It is absurd though to talk about this in isolation. The fundamental issue IMHO is which choice under which circumstances will best promote the welfare of the people in Taiwan.
But then it’s far easier just to say that people who disagree with you are butt-kissing mainlanders.
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Originally posted by salmon: Alternatively:Why is it that foreigners are among the most fanatical politicos on this island?
My ideas come directly from talking with many people here in Taiwan and my feelings mirror theirs. There are many passionate and patriotic Taiwanese, but they are speaking Taiwanese and Mandarin and not posting on this forum for English speakers.
For example, head on over to the Chiang Kai Shek memorial, I read in the Taipei Times today that there is vigil going on over there to use the name Taiwan instead of the confusing misnomer ROC.
Salmon if you hope for eventual unification of Taiwan and China, that is fine. I don’t agree with that or thnk anyone should think about that until China democratizes, but for wanting eventual unification, I don’t think you are a butt kisser, but I do think that the CCP deserves your criticism more than the DPP does! Can you understand that? By the way, why do you favor eventual unification?
Perhaps many foriegners are freedom (Independence) advocates because they come from countries with democracy, UN Membership, etc. and they chersih these values and wouldn’t wish CCP to govern their worst enemy. Also, they come to identify with Taiwan after living here for a long time and perhaps dislike the way Taiwan is treated around the world. For example, CCP Chairman Jiang will visit with President Bush at his ranch in Texas, but Taiwan’s democratically president cannot even transit in many places around the world without an uproar.
Finally, it is not fair to call Taiwan advocates fanatical. They are advocating a change that allows the truth to come out, that Taiwan is not a province of China. Unifications are the ones looking for a big change which to me seems more fanatical.
I laughed today to hear Taiwan referred to as a “Renegade Province.” That is such Cold War Communist rhetoric. So the Communists are still Bandits in the eyes of the KMT.
I agree that political unification is still the dream of those that were Shanghaied by CKS during his retreat.
Soong, Lian, GO HOME if you want.
Leave Taiwan to the Taiwanese.
Economically, socially, and politically, Taiwan and China already are separate nations.
Seriously folks, to still call Taiwan part of China is to ignore the facts of history over the past 100 years. Taiwan has developed into a separate country from China. This is reflected in the history of former colonies or territories gaining their independence.
Otherwise, we might as well argue like the Jews in Israeli and argue that only the first settlers in an area have a right because they were here first. Start learning those Aboriginal languages.
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Originally posted by salmon: Alternatively:Why is it that foreigners are among the most fanatical politicos on this island?
I think the fact that they can leave in case things get too hot might have something to do with it. Also Hobart is right in that many Westerners do come from places like the US where Independence is synonymous with Good and Right, where the underdog often wins in a Hollywoodesque manner, so naturally Taiwan falls into this category in their eyes.
Also, I have a theory that many foreigners here live in such isolation and comparively restricted social circles that they feel a need to (at least appear to) contribute to a cause, and TI fits that bill nicely.
As for Hobart’s statement that his sentiments reflect those of the Taiwanese, I would say that’s an exaggeration at best. I know a fair amount of Taiwanese myself, and I’ve been here for a while, and polls even back me up when I say most of the Taiwanese I know don’t want either independence or unification right now. If you go by the last election results, the vast majority of Taiwanese voted for Lien/Soong rather than for Chen. I know what most foreigners say to that “Well, they were brainwashed.” Yeah, you know so much better what’s good for Taiwan than most Taiwanese do. Uh, ok.
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Originally posted by Poagao: I know what most foreigners say to that "Well, they were brainwashed." Yeah, you know so much better what's good for Taiwan than most Taiwanese do. Uh, ok.
Now Poagao, you know as well as I do that the only foreigner who REALLY knows even better than the Taiwanese what’s best for them is … Taiwan Status!
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Originally posted by Poagao:I think the fact that they can leave in case things get too hot might have something to do with it.
Right. When the missiles start flying, we’re going to cart our entire extended families to I-lan and try to rent fishing boats to Okinawa* a la South Vietnam 1975.
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Originally posted by Poagao: If you go by the last election results, the vast majority of Taiwanese voted for Lien/Soong rather than for Chen. I know what most foreigners say to that "Well, they were brainwashed." Yeah, you know so much better what's good for Taiwan than most Taiwanese do. Uh, ok.
I think the majority of Taiwanese simply wish to maintain the status quo (and make money)…unfortunately, that’s not going to happen. It really doesn’t matter whether Soong, Chen or Lien is president. Beijing is not going to stop until it gets what it wants…and by all indications, the squeeze is coming.
*I just hope the Okinawans give us a better welcome than the Taiwanese gave the Vietnamese…a lunchbox and tow back to sea!
i know plenty of locals who are very pro-independence. i also hear that some locals were so fanatical they went to jail for their beliefs.
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Originally posted by Flipper: i know plenty of locals who are very pro-independence. i also hear that some locals were so fanatical they went to jail for their beliefs. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
You’re talking about the past. How many are willing to do it now? These are not the bad old days under the KMT when things were much more black and white. Nowadays the DPP is in power, people are doing business in China, have their kids in college there. The vast majority have an investment in peace and stability.
You ever hear the saying “You talk the talk but can you walk the walk?”