At least they’re not speaking of an e-referendum.
Shhhhhhhh! They’ll hear you!
What is this defensive referendum gonna prove anyway? What a waste of money. They should plow the money into education to provide a better future for Taiwan!
I actually agree with the referendum. The recently passed law states (if I am not mistaken) that a referedum can be brought up in a situation of imminent danger. Well, having 400+ or however many missiles pointed at you everyday constitutues imminent danger in my book. Evoking the right to hold a referedum is in effect declaring to the world that people on Taiwan are constantly living with a loaded gun pointed to their heads. Even if it doesn’t change people’s stance on whether TW should be independent at least it racks their brain on whether siding with the Chinese is morally correct. This is about the only thing Chen can do without really making a mess of things. Clever guy, I say.
Well Canada never had a referendum over all those Soviet missiles pointed at us. My problem is that a referendum is a pointless excercise because China will flip the bird at Taiwan. Taiwan should build 800 missiles at China…well maybe not such a good idea.
This coming May, the Philippines is going to have a referendum to decide if its five regions-- Luzon, Cordillera, Visaya, Mindanao & Bansamoro – go their own ways. Well, soon we may need 5 visas to travel to the Philippines.
In the near past, the following “states” broke away via referendums:
Anguilla from the British Virgin Islands in 1969.
Anjouan from Comoros in 1997.
Armenia from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Aruba from the Netherlands Antilles in 1986.
Azerbaijan from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Bangladesh from Pakistan in 1971.
Barbuda from Antigua-Barbuda in 1981.
Belarus from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Belgium from the Netherlands in 1830.
Bosnia and Herzegovina from Yugoslavia in 1991.
Colombia from Gran Colombia in 1830.
Croatia from Yugoslavia in 1991.
The Czech Republic from Czechoslovakia in 1993.
East Timor from Indonesia in 1999.
Ecuador from Gran Colombia in 1830.
Estonia from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Egypt from the United Arab Republic in 1961.
Eritrea from Ethiopia in 1993.
Gambia from Senegambia in 1989.
Georgia from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Kazakhstan from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Kyrgyztan from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Latvia from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Lithuania from the Soviet Union in 1991.
Macedonia from Yugoslavia in 1992.
Mongolia from China in 1911.
Pakistan from British India in 1947.
Panama from Colombia in 1902.
Senegal from the Mali Federation in 1960, then from Senegambia in 1989.
Singapore from Malaysia in 1965.
Slovakia from Czechoslovakia in 1993.
Slovenia from Yugoslavia in 1991.
Syria from the United Arab Republic in 1961.
Tajikistan from the Soviet Union in 1991.
The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus from Cyprus in 1983.
Turkmenistan from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Tuvalu from the Gilbert Islands in 1975.
Ukraine from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
The United States from England in 1776.
Uzbekistan from the U.S.S.R. in 1991.
Venezuela from Gran Colombia in 1830.
We have a thread at Forumosa about the Mongolia case. Rumors said in Mongolian Congress there were debates recently about the possibilities of going back to China. As for Europe, after all those bloody efforts, many countries now are busy reuniting under a same roof. Will wonder never cease!
The following are trying to break away:
Chechnya from Russia
The Caucasus from Russia
The Cherkess Region from the Russian Republic of Karachay-Cherkessia
Caprivi from Namibia
The Chin State from Myanmar
Southern Bhutan from Bhutan
Montenegro from Yugoslavia
Kosovo from Yugoslavia
Tibet from China
Inner Mongolia from China
East Turkistan [Xinjiang Uighur] from China
Taiwan from China
The Tamils from Sri Lanka
West Bank and Gaza from Israel
Bougainville from Papua New Guinea
Scotland from the United Kingdom
Wales from the United Kingdom
Ulster from England
Ache from Indonesia
Riau from Indonesia
East Kalimantan from Indonesia
Sulawesi from Indonesia
West Papua[Irian Jaya] from Indonesia
The Spice Islands [Mollucas] from Indonesia
Lombok from Indonesia
The Basque Country from Spain
Somaliland from Somalia
Chiapas from Mexico
Quebec from Canada
Kashmir from India
Punjab from India
The Kurds from Turkey
The Kurds from Iran
The Kurds from Iraq
The Faroe Islands from Denmark
Saxia from South Africa
Southern Sudan from Sudan
Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia
Elsass-Lothringia from France
Brittany from France
Epirus from Albania
Flanders from Belgium
St. Kitts from St. Kitts and Nevis
Anjouan from Comoros
Padania from Italy
Puerto Rico from the United States
Hawaii from the United States
Jura from Switzerland
Crimea from the Ukraine
Scania from Sweden
Western Sahara from Morocco
Southern Yemen from Yemen
Nagorno-Karabach from Azerbaijan
Gagauzia and Transitria from Moldova
San Andres and Providencia from Colombia
Casamance from Senegal
Abidjan from C
Did you include Hawaii as one of the states trying to break away from the U.S.?
He did, but I’m sure he missed a few. For one, I know there’s been some talk about Northern California breaking free from Southern California. . . but people who advocate that also have seen sasquatch and been abducted by aliens. Then again, maybe the compiler of his list also fits that description.
Sure sounds crazy, doesn’t it? Go to Google, do a search with keyword “hawaii independence” and prepare yourself for some shocks and awes.
And no, I didn’t compile the list.
I knew about the Hawaiian independence movement, that’s why I asked.
I’m sure there’s all kinds of ‘independence-minded’ groups all over the world, in all different kinds of situations.
I think the list is a little silly in part because it says Tibet is “trying to break away from China.” While maybe Tibet should be a separate country I think the above characterization is ridiculous. It’s been a part of China for 50 years now, many millions of Chinese have been relocated there, and born there, and most of Lhasa is now Chinese. The possibility of Tibet “breaking away” is zero and even the Dalai Lama recognizes that and is not advocating it. While “Free Tibet” is a nice sentiment, it’s about as likely as Northern California breaking away from Southern Cal.
As for Taiwan “breaking away” from China, that assumes that Taiwan is now a part of China and many, such as myself, do not believe that. After all, if it is now part of China why do some talk about re-unification with China?
Those are a couple of my problems with the list. Many of the other situations I am less familiar with but I suspect others also aren’t quite accurate.
Well, it’s a good thing we settled this issue in America 140 years ago. Don’t want to go through all that again. You silly Yankees don’t know how good we’ve got it being the United States instead of an Articles of Confederation. Can you imagine trying to travel across the country if you had to check your passport & convert currency every time you crossed the state line? A lot of Europeans are annoyed by that, too, which is why they have the EU now.
Years back, I travelled from Peru to Chile and I vaguely remember this bizarre story of referendum (or plebiscite). Either someone told me or I read it somewhere(Lonely Planet?) that after a badly handled flood situation, the city of Tacna defected to Peru from Chile via a referendum, and that even as of today [1992], Chile entitles residents of Tacna to have Chilean passports.
I couldn’t find anything on the net mentioning this other than several US-mediated treaties between the two countries. Did I dream of this or my legs were pulled so good? Some of you must have been there. Help!
We know that over the world, no two cases are alike, but if domestic cities such as Gibraltar and Tacna could also decide their fates via public votes, I won’t be totally surprised to see Kinman/Matsu going back to China after a referendum.
Two of my friends have written an interesting dialogue in Chinese about the Referendum issue. That is a very hot issue in Taiwan now.
Another of my friends looked the dialogue over and said it was extremely interesting, in addition to providing a lot of local and international perspective that we don’t get in the Taiwanese newspapers.
So . . . . . the question is now, are there suitable “commentary” type websites where an article of this nature could be posted?? They would like to make it available to as many interested readers as possible, and think it would make excellent reading material for the Chinese New Year period!!
As I understand, it is currently in Chinese Word (.doc) format, and approximately 24 pages.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Three choices, the third being for those of you who can make a choice without first having to spit betelnut juice, as of course Taiwan already has Patriot 1 batteries in northern Taiwan, with MND budget already approved for further Patriot III batteries in central and southern Taiwan, as well as CIST-developed anti-missile missiles. Or does the Tainan snake-oil salesman mean “even further further further boosted defensive missiles than we’ve already planned and implemented without the help of you gullible public, thank you very much”?
And a peace mechanism? Oooh! Yes please! Let’s have yet another bunch of so-called “experts and scholars” sitting around drawing salary to come up with pointless exercises to keep themselves busy, because of course, Beijing won’t speak to them.
Or is Chen going to give up Taiwan’s insistence that Beijing drop its “one China” or its “one country, two systems” stance as a prerequisite for negotiations?
What a fucking joke.
Nice post, Sandman, but try not to belittle our polling mechanism to make a point.
Pogao, I saw you the other day but was feeling unusually antisocial. Sorry I didn’s say “hi.”
Shhhhhhhh! They’ll hear you![/quote]
Their waiting until they develop the computerized polling booths.
Belittle? Christ, if you’d seen my post before it was edited … I can’t wait to see what colours of bullshit the Taipei Whines comes up with to try and defend this piece of crap.
We all knew, of course, that 'Ol Greasy Pate would kowtow to the real powers, but who knew he would do such a fine job of rolling over and playing dead?
“Here Bian-y boy let me scratch yer tummy. Good boy. Now, FETCH the stick! Fetch! Fetch!”
What happened to my Taiwan referendum poll? Cranky, did you delete the poll, making my post meaningless? Haven’t you been reading the papers? Ah-bian himself says that the right to referendum is a basic human right. I’m crushed! CRUSHED, I tell you.