I’ve just finished working in a buxiban with some shady aspects it would be TMI to mention. I’m self-admittedly not a great teacher but have worked hard at the place (~110 hours a month) and been respectful to everyone.
I’m considering going back to get a job in the UK so I’ve requested reference letters from the manager of the school to do that.
However, my request has so far been ignored. The manager was educated in the UK and has near-fluent English, so would understand the importance of reference letters; she I think just doesn’t want to give me them as a sort of bullying gesture.
Can anyone advise me of what to do in this sort of situation? There are lots of crazy managers out here and a manager refusing to give reference letters can hardly be unique to my situation.
I can’t request a reference from my last British employer because that was 10 years ago.
Ask for a 工作證明 (proof of having worked). I’m pretty sure your employer is legally required to give it to you. It takes them like two minutes to throw your name, ID number, and dates of employment into the form. It’s literally just a form with the stupid official stamp on it that says “bla bla worked at yadaya from x date to y date”. You basically need them for any job in Taiwan with salary based on years worked, so it’s quite SOP. Take it up with the labor bureau if your boss says no.
It is not customary to give letters of reference/recommendation in Taiwan. Many Taiwanese managers think it is an unreasonable request. She may be educated in the UK, but has she ever worked there? Also, while she may be nearly fluent in English, writing a letter in a foreign language is a big ask especially if she doesn’t know what it should say (likely).
I would write the letter for her and give her the draft with an appropriate gift in fancy packaging.
But @nz is correct that they must give you a certificate of separation that states the facts of your employment. You’ll typically get that on your last day. She may think that’s what you are asking for.
I seel a lot of room for potential miscommunication and misunderstanding here.
Contact the HR department and request a proof of employment.
In my experience, locals don’t typically prioritize reference letters. When applying for a job, HR usually contacts previous employers for references. Therefore, it may be better to obtain an English document, such as proof of resident status and a work permit, which specifies the place of employment
Also, something like that (“I confirm that @Gromit666 is a human that I employed between xx/xx/xx and yy/yy/yy”), just stating the facts but nothing positive, might be interpreted almost as badly as not having a reference letter at all.
If someone isn’t willing to write a reference/recommendation letter that reflects well on the person, I don’t see much point trying to force them to write one. In that situation, maybe OP could ask a friendly co-worker to write one instead.
That’s all I’ve ever had on the forms. Maybe “completed contract” tacked to the end. But future bosses call former bosses and talk about me. I’ve had more than one message me to say something along the lines of “I had a great chat with [name of person hiring] about you. I hope you get the position!”, which means “I employed them” on the form was a rubber stamp, not an insult.
Yeah, but that’s within Taiwan right? I’m talking about internationally, as in OP’s case. For potential employers in other countries, something like that just listing the bare facts can be interpreted negatively.
The answer would be the same regardless of whether they were Taiwanese or not.
Be a nice person and ask them politely and nicely. Prepare a draft and explain the importance of it and that it’s a common practice in your country even for relatively bad employees and not having one is basically you and the boss hating each other’s guts. Nothing more you can do.
Yes but outside of Taiwan, I’ve never heard of people needing official forms to “prove” you worked there. You go lying about your work history in the US and you’re going to be in serious legal trouble if they find out. Letters of rec are something else entirely, but also something you don’t usually ask for from people who you didn’t get along with…
I used to get employers to give them a letter of employment when the employee would tell them they wanted to apply for post graduate study. Even in Taiwan you would need that. Often a manager or HR department would sign the employment letter I wrote on the company letter head.
@Gromit666 Perhaps write your own reference on company letter head and have a company partner snr manager or HR department sign it. Assuming your manager perhaps is not the owner of the business that employs you.
My clients I would tell them to get multiple copies signed so they had more than one original.
References should love you in order for you to want their referrence. Additionally, they are not required to do so. If you try to force them, work through the process first before handing out resumes:
Potential future employees see your referrence letter and check the reference, let’s say a phone call. How would that go? Do you really want that referrence after causing a problem for them? That’s why the proof of employment is probably good enough, maybe even a risk if you think you werent anything but excellent there. If you were not indespensible to the company, think of a good excuse for the potential new employer on why you do t have a *good reference letter or recommendation. No employer would be thrilled with 110 hours/month. Thats more like decent part time. 110 hours/week is something to brag about! But thats more boss/owner level work hours, so they wouldn’t likely believe that from the average employee. Doesn’t matter if that’s on you or the company, not working full time often looks bad. Just a reality
Reference letters arent common in Taiwan because work culture here is not about what you do at work but whats your position at work so a person working as a project manager for example is assumed to have very high skills without any need for anyone to see the proof of it. Thats why how many years u have worked matters most because here thats experience and everyone think that longer u worked means more experienced and skilled u are.
Is there even a point to them? I get the purpose but I just feel like they don’t do anything meaningful in reality.
I either will refuse if they’re that bad or just write some generic fluff. I haven’t had anyone leave me that was excellent so maybe this is where it actually matters.
The reason I don’t write negative ones is that my understanding is that it could potentially open up liabilities of getting sued.
Wait, what? Not even full time…or is this a weird government rule for foriegners?
Seems odd. Back when I taught early 2000s, it was easy to get 80 a week spread across different schools. Has it changed that much?
Either way, that doesn’t matter. Future employers need to be re assured if a prospective employees worth. I won’t argue much if half time looks good or bad, I seem to not be up to date on the rules. But a GLOWING reference, as well as proof of success seems basic.
