Taiwanese girls - dating + 1

Life Dating & Relationships
1

Most of the guys who have been here for longer than two weeks must have experiened something along these lines:

‘Sure, I’d love to go on a date with you! And I’m sure my friend/sister/brother/guy who’s more attractive than you/mother will love it too!’

Call me old fashioned, but when I go on a ‘date’, I want to spend time alone with the datee so that the magical process of awkward fumbling and hilariously misread situations can envelop. I feel especially perturbed if I make it quite explicit that I want to go on a date with a girl who then turns up with a hitherto unannounced male friend. Which has happened three times now.

So what do you do in this situation? Pretend that it’s completely normal and engineer some way to be alone for your second date? Stand back with an incredulous ‘woah’ and walk off? The last time I dealt with this by thinking, ‘what the hell’, and started slapping the girl’s arse while winking at the guy - who for some reason departed after a remarkably brief time.

What about if your potential date makes it known that she’s going to bring someone along? I racked my brains and can’t think of any way to politely state a ‘two people only’ rule that doesn’t involve profanities or an amusing anecdote about sausages.

Personally, even if I liked the girl I find this sort of thing a complete turnoff. It says to me, ‘hey, I’m completely inexperienced and brought someone else along on our date because quite frankly the idea of spending time alone with a guy scares the military-issue pants off me’.

2

[What is it with Dating IN GROUPS?

But you’re right. Most of them are probably scared of going out with a stranger.

Though after she shows up with a friend, there isn’t much you can do without being rude I suppose.

Guess you could emphasise the “you and me” bit. Like asking, “Want to go do something together? You and me? You and me, the two of us?”
Hold up two fingers in peace sign for emphasis

3

It was probably explained in the thread that Lupillus referred to, or another one in there, but in short:

There is no such thing as casual dating here, in the Western sense. While this behavior is based on old relationship ideas and is evolving, it is still basically true.

As a rule, if Taiwanese people (especially people about 30 and older, whose opinions count more than the younger set in this society) see a man and woman sitting alone together, they come to one conclusion – the two are romantically involved. Not friends. Not business associates. The two are seen as either married or soon to be married or scandalously connected.

While fear of strangers surely plays a part in the desire to “bring a friend,” as far as I can tell, the desire to avoid misperceptions is even greater.

4

what to do?

Move on to another who perhaps has some sense of self or maturity.

Or spend the next few months baby sittin’ her/his ego and demands.

5

[quote=“shifty”]what to do?

Move on to another who perhaps has some sense of self or maturity.

Or spend the next few months baby sittin’ her/his ego and demands.[/quote]

Precisely.

6

I have to agree… the fundamental problem for me is not the issue of her bringing a friend on some casual date, but of the deep-rooted immaturity revealed by such behaviour.

I’m sure not everyone finds this a negative thing but I happen to be attracted to confident, open girls. Therefore any hint of fear and I get turned off quicker than a gas main in a bomb scare. There are enough Taiwanese girls with great, confident personas that I don’t have to mess about with the ones still finding their feet.

[quote=“shifty”]what to do?

Move on to another who perhaps has some sense of self or maturity.

Or spend the next few months baby sittin’ her/his ego and demands.[/quote]

7

I really do think it’s a much bigger issue with younger Taiwanese girls. I’m ‘casually dating’ a girl a few years my senior right now and feel much more comfortable. I should point out that I see casual dating as a healthy precursor to a long term relationship and not casual sex.

I’ve been out for friendly chats with female friends, alone, in a coffee shop or similar. I’m not sure if I buy that external perception is the key to the Mystery of Taiwanese Dating.

I’m not bothered in the slightest by getting to know a girl first, going out with her friends for a few dates etc. but I make it very clear from the beginning if I’m interested in a romantic relationship. I just find inexperience and immaturity such a huge turn-off that I lose all interest.

[quote=“seeker4”]It was probably explained in the thread that Lupillus referred to, or another one in there, but in short:

There is no such thing as casual dating here, in the Western sense. While this behavior is based on old relationship ideas and is evolving, it is still basically true.

As a rule, if Taiwanese people (especially people about 30 and older, whose opinions count more than the younger set in this society) see a man and woman sitting alone together, they come to one conclusion – the two are romantically involved. Not friends. Not business associates. The two are seen as either married or soon to be married or scandalously connected.

While fear of strangers surely plays a part in the desire to “bring a friend,” as far as I can tell, the desire to avoid misperceptions is even greater.[/quote]

8

The fact that she did that just told you what type of girl she is - exactly the type you don’t like.
So she saved you a lot of time. Move on, keep looking, she isn’t that confident, open WOMAN you want. She’s a shy, insecure, immacure GIRL and she’s not ready for you, and you don’t want to wait for her to grow up.
There are other girls out there who is confident and more mature, so date those type of girls.

So simple. All is right with the world again.

1 Like
9

Eh. I think you are being a TAD hard on the girls.

Most westerners I know outweigh the prototypical Taiwanese xiao jie by like 60-80 pounds. For a girl to go out on a date with a near stranger with little to no protection is like sucking on the barrel of a gun and trusting the person holding it isn’t in the mood to see brain.

It’s a safety issue. Those additional people disappear after one or two dates. I’d only be concerned if you still saw those people on date three and four.

10

I’m not being hard on anyone, just stating the obvious.

No matter how wonderful a girl might be, this kind of inexperience is telling of a future personality clash. I’ve dated shy girls before and it’s never lasted very long at all because when the cuteness wears off I just find it irritating. They won’t open up and talk, they avoid you rather than discuss any problems, and sex can be… weird. And let’s face it - I probably got on their nerves something terrible as well.

So it’s not just the bring-a-friend-or-four thing that bothers me. I’ve been on a ‘date’ which has involved me going to an event the girl has organised, then left on my own for the rest of the night. Normally I would take this to mean ‘I’m not interested - let’s be friends’, but nope… I find out from a mutual friend that she’s really into me. I don’t care where you’re from; this is not correct dating protocol and is verging into Mind Games Territory.

[quote=“pissedpookie”]Eh. I think you are being a TAD hard on the girls.

Most westerners I know outweigh the prototypical Taiwanese xiao jie by like 60-80 pounds. For a girl to go out on a date with a near stranger with little to no protection is like sucking on the barrel of a gun and trusting the person holding it isn’t in the mood to see brain.

It’s a safety issue. Those additional people disappear after one or two dates. I’d only be concerned if you still saw those people on date three and four.[/quote]

11

Mmmm…

I don’t know how you guys read this but it sounds to be like a gentle “no” to the date. Don’t you think?

12

[quote=“llary”]I’m not being hard on anyone, just stating the obvious.

No matter how wonderful a girl might be, this kind of inexperience is telling of a future personality clash. I’ve dated shy girls before and it’s never lasted very long at all because when the cuteness wears off I just find it irritating. They won’t open up and talk, they avoid you rather than discuss any problems, and sex can be… weird. And let’s face it - I probably got on their nerves something terrible as well.

So it’s not just the bring-a-friend-or-four thing that bothers me. I’ve been on a ‘date’ which has involved me going to an event the girl has organised, then left on my own for the rest of the night. Normally I would take this to mean ‘I’m not interested - let’s be friends’, but nope… I find out from a mutual friend that she’s really into me. I don’t care where you’re from; this is not correct dating protocol and is verging into Mind Games Territory.

[quote=“pissedpookie”]Eh. I think you are being a TAD hard on the girls.

Most westerners I know outweigh the prototypical Taiwanese xiao jie by like 60-80 pounds. For a girl to go out on a date with a near stranger with little to no protection is like sucking on the barrel of a gun and trusting the person holding it isn’t in the mood to see brain.

It’s a safety issue. Those additional people disappear after one or two dates. I’d only be concerned if you still saw those people on date three and four.[/quote][/quote]

Just a thought, but how about this? She wants to bring a friend along, you bring one along too. That way she can still feel safe (if indeed the issue is that you’re a big strong stranger…), and your friend can keep her friend occupied so you can have more time to chat to her somewhat alone…

13

Just different culture, don’t have to 2nd guess that much if you ask me. If you like her, you’d better like her friends too, things run differently here, of course if you want to play by your rule, then by all means, go find someone else who will play by your rule.

14

For the OP, it’s not a matter of immaturity. If I bring a gun into a bad neighborhood, I’m not immature. I’m being practical. I don’t think trying to prevent a rape or sexual assault on your person is in any way “immature”.

As for bismark’s comments. Amen, brother. You bring a lead-blocker to take out the cockblocker and that sweet poontang is all yours.

…

Or something like that.

(I swear it was funnier in my head than online.)

[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“llary”]I’m not being hard on anyone, just stating the obvious.

No matter how wonderful a girl might be, this kind of inexperience is telling of a future personality clash. I’ve dated shy girls before and it’s never lasted very long at all because when the cuteness wears off I just find it irritating. They won’t open up and talk, they avoid you rather than discuss any problems, and sex can be… weird. And let’s face it - I probably got on their nerves something terrible as well.

So it’s not just the bring-a-friend-or-four thing that bothers me. I’ve been on a ‘date’ which has involved me going to an event the girl has organised, then left on my own for the rest of the night. Normally I would take this to mean ‘I’m not interested - let’s be friends’, but nope… I find out from a mutual friend that she’s really into me. I don’t care where you’re from; this is not correct dating protocol and is verging into Mind Games Territory.

[quote=“pissedpookie”]Eh. I think you are being a TAD hard on the girls.

Most westerners I know outweigh the prototypical Taiwanese xiao jie by like 60-80 pounds. For a girl to go out on a date with a near stranger with little to no protection is like sucking on the barrel of a gun and trusting the person holding it isn’t in the mood to see brain.

It’s a safety issue. Those additional people disappear after one or two dates. I’d only be concerned if you still saw those people on date three and four.[/quote][/quote]

Just a thought, but how about this? She wants to bring a friend along, you bring one along too. That way she can still feel safe (if indeed the issue is that you’re a big strong stranger…), and your friend can keep her friend occupied so you can have more time to chat to her somewhat alone…[/quote]

15

[quote=“pissedpookie”]For the OP, it’s not a matter of immaturity. If I bring a gun into a bad neighborhood, I’m not immature. I’m being practical. I don’t think trying to prevent a rape or sexual assault on your person is in any way “immature”.

[/quote]

First dates are almost always in a public place. You don’t invite a girl home on the first date, unless… :smiley: Yeah, like a guy is going to rape a girl in the middle of a restaurant. Or on the dance floor, or whatever public place you two are. So the “fears” don’t really make sense.

16

Man, you sure love your guns! Maybe now I understand why the girls out here ARE so cautious…

17

Does double-dating somehow collapse the Taiwanese Dating Space-Time Continuum? What happens when the girl thinks she got one over on you by bring two - count em, TWO - girlfriends, to find you countered her counter-plan and brought THREE strapping manly specimens to keep her chaperones otherwise engaged? News at 11.

18

Good theory, but this is Taiwan. I’m also talking about instances where a girl asks ME out and does this. Or sets off my ‘let’s be friends’ alarm then professes her love to me after two months of non-contact because I thought she wasn’t interested. I’m assuming you’re either a foreign overseas Chinese woman, but ask any foreign guy and I’m sure they will tell you the same thing.

Your response pretty much sums up my point. This kind of behaviour in any other society would suggest to me a polite but firm rejection. God knows you women are complicated enough and it took me a while to figure that one out, and now I have to relearn the whole shenanigans. I think I’m going to become a gay mormon Buddhist monk.

[quote=“cyf1155”]Mmmm…

I don’t know how you guys read this but it sounds to be like a gentle “no” to the date. Don’t you think?[/quote]

19

I get the ‘you just don’t understand Taiwanese culture’ line a lot if I bring this up. Culture shmulture. I have no problem with testing the water at first by hanging out with mutual friends and whatnot. However, when it’s clear that two people are romantically interested in each other and a DATE is on the cards, I find it offputting when I don’t quite know what a DATE involves any more. I don’t think anyone here could argue with a straight face that Taiwanese girls in their early 20s are universally mature, open and worldly. Of course there are many exceptions (especially in the rural areas, oddly enough) but I’m not the first to make this observation and won’t be the last.

Call me heartless, but I see relationships - or even friendships - as a kind of investment. Being asked to put in 3 months of my time chasing a girl before I even get to spend any real time alone with her is like making a business plan and putting up finance for a venture I know very little about. If I’m putting in the work, I want to know I’ll get a return on my investment in the form of a good friendship or fulfilling relationship.

PS - I should point out that I’m not asking for advice about some specific girl. I was really fishing for stories of other guys’ dating experiences with Taiwanese girls that have gone the same way. By the PMs I received, a few people seem to be taking this more seriously than the lighthearted look at Taiwanese dating it was supposed to be.

20

[quote=“mod lang”][quote=“pissedpookie”]For the OP, it’s not a matter of immaturity. If I bring a gun into a bad neighborhood, I’m not immature. I’m being practical. I don’t think trying to prevent a rape or sexual assault on your person is in any way “immature”.

[/quote]

First dates are almost always in a public place. You don’t invite a girl home on the first date, unless… :smiley: Yeah, like a guy is going to rape a girl in the middle of a restaurant. Or on the dance floor, or whatever public place you two are. So the “fears” don’t really make sense.[/quote]

… Uh, one walk down a darkened street after the date to your scooter or stopping to look for your keys before entering your apartment? Please do not play the blithering idiot and suggest that first dates are perfectly safe, because they SURE AS FUCK ARE NOT. I’d rather stick my dick in a bear trap than trust a person I hardly know anything about. At least with the trap I’m pretty sure what’s going to happen and can plan accordingly (mostly a lot of howling, putting the partially crushed/severed member into a waiting icebox and a very long drive to the nearest OR all the while clutching what remains of the one thing which gives my pathetic male existence meaning).

…

In short, it is my opinion that the fears I described earlier are perfectly founded and reasonable.

I believe strongly that when you’re in Taiwan, you play by Taiwanese rules. Sure, yes, there is a lot of immaturity in the typical xiao jie. There would be in any girl who is age 24, has never had a job and still lives at home. However, this is also just how things are done. There’s a lot more “courting”; a lot more investment before anything happens in romantic relationships here.