I heard many people say that. esp, comparing taiwan with CHina,
like: better method, better qualified teachers.
Anyone know things about this.
Oh, one thing in China, most of my men dont regard asian-look English teacher as Foreign teacher. So many people have big trouble to find a teaching job in qingdao, beijing, if they only certificate,but not caucasian looking…yeah, even hard for african-backgroud dude.
Welcome, Keith. Interesting discussion.
I get the impression that the overall quality of English teaching in Hong Kong and Thailand is quite good. At least they have more connections to the wider world of ELT in some ways, such as qualifications and maybe also research, writing, and publication.
Yeah, hongkong is good, but they are ruled by Britain for one century, English is more like another language… plus I heard a theory,which I am not sure about, that the prononciation of Cantonese is much more similar to English than other languages among the area(or other dialect around China, I forget)
For southeast countries, I have no idea why, but most people I know, (from philipino, indonesia) speak quiet good English, much better than China…
[quote=“joesax”]Welcome, Keith. Interesting discussion.
I get the impression that the overall quality of English teaching in Hong Kong and Thailand is quite good. At least they have more connections to the wider world of ELT in some ways, such as qualifications and maybe also research, writing, and publication.[/quote]
I heard English teachers in Japan are quite good ,too.
Korean accent is more like British accent.
Am I right?
[quote=“wisher”]I heard English teachers in Japan are quite good ,too.
Korean accent is more like British accent.
Am I right?[/quote]
There is no one British accent so its hard to answer this question. If you hear how I talk to my brother for example many Taiwanese (some Americans too) would have no chance understanding what the hell I’m on about. My accent is actually different to somebody living in a different part of my city and on and on it goes.
I have met people in China with excellent English who have never been abroad. I have also met people who have been abroad to study and who can hardly string a sentence together. Those with better English tend to be more self-motivated and do not rely on a teacher to pour English into their heads while they sleep.
I think this is universal. Many people in ex-colonies Hong Kong and Malaysia and India can’t speak English. Or do maths. And so on.
The majority of Filipinos can speak reasonably fluent English because all higher educational instruction past the sixth grade is taught in English. It was an American colony for half a century. Same as Hong Kong, Singapore, and Malaysia were UK colonies for a century, so of course the locals there speak better English than people in Taiwan.
The pay offered in mainland China does not seem competitive for the Asia region. English teachers can make the most in Japan, I believe.
When I went to Japan last year.I saw many Ads.about learning English.And it all about the adult English learning which is different from Taiwan.Most of Taiwan’s Ads. are kids English learning.And I really saw many adults learning English on a cafe.
But when my English friend wanted to ask the direction ,they just walked away.So I asked them in my very poor Japanese.
And My English friend felt Taiwanese can speak better English than japanese.
I have some friends that have taught in both Japan and Taiwan and they all say that the Taiwanese accent is more understandable.
From my experience of Taiwan (14 years), Japan (2 years) and Thailand (2.5 Years), English teaching in Taiwan is more sophisticated and delivers better outcomes for English learners. Granted it’s a long time since I taught English in either Japan or Thailand. My experience of Japan was that kids started later and spent less time studying English. However, for the most part I taught adults in Japan and they were pretty hopeless.
The Thai’s seemed to have a better knack with English. I don’t know if you can quantify this. I think it was largely to do with exposure through the tousim industry. Most of my work in Thailand, though, was in the refugee camps. Many Thais, Lao, Burmese and Khmer had excellent English. Motivation was very high for some. As for methods, it was my job to introduce better techniques than the ones that were being used. When I think of that time I’m always reminded of that scene from Good Morning Vietnam:
let’s start off with the fact
that English is a fantastic language.
Let’s try a little phrase,
uh, I like to call…
“My boyfriend’s back
and there’s gonna be trouble.
Hey-nah, hey-nah, my boyfriend’s back.”
Can we try that one?
Can we try “My boyfriend’s back”?
Anybody?
This is not for you.
Why do I feel like
the Miracle Worker up here?
Even saying that means
I don’t know dick. I–
I can’t really teach English.
That’s what Sergeant Sloan’s going
to do when he comes back.
I can only tell ya
about how you can talk on,
maybe, the real streets of America.
Like, if you’re walking on the streets
of New York and someone says, "Hey!
Excuse me. I would like to buy
some cheese and some butter."
No. No, come on.
Basically, we talk, “Hey, man,
what’s happening? Ahh, you look
hip today. Slip me some skin.”
Now, if someone in
America comes up and says, “Hey,
slip me some skin,” don’t be afraid.
They’re not a leper,
and they’re not gonna go–
No. It means, “Hey, baby,
slip me some skin.” It’s a greeting.
It’s like, “How’re you doin’?
Nice to meet you. Slip me some skin.”
Now, here’s how you do it.
You say, “Slip me some skin.”
Put your hand out there.
Then you go, “Yeah, there’s some skin.”
Now you do it to me.
Yeah! Then you say,
“Groovy. Yeah.”
Yes! Baby!
If something’s really nice,
you say, “It’s groovy.”
Doesn’t mean you’re going like,
“Yo!” No. It means “groovy.”
Try that one. Say, “Hey, baby,
what’s happening? Let’s groove.”
Hey, baby, wh-wh-wh-wh-what’s
happening? Let’s groove.
I asked the “Washington hotel” but they gave me the dircetion of Hilton Hotel.
And it spent us 2 hrs to get back Hotel (Washington Hotel).
That doesn’t make much difference. A professional teacher will have read about the phonemic make up of a language and deal with it. The point is not whether a teacher can understand anyway, the point is whether a Canadian bus driver or a British hotel receptionist can understand, as wisher’s experience demonstrates.
Taiwan’s overseas’ teachers are, for the large part, completely unqualified. Taiwan’s Taiwanese teachers have mostly fairly basic level language skills. Can’t see it improving because the economy’s on a downturn so the salaries and money/attitude necessary for training and development aren’t there. I’m not seeing enough of a desire to learn English, as a society, to change this situation.
I’ve taught in Thailand. It depends where you work. More sex tourists/drug addicts than Taiwan, but fewer kids with little experience and few skills. The salaries in Thailand, compared with the cost of living, are higher in Thailand than in Taiwan, so the good schools can pick or choose more. Thai schools are increasingly asking for EFL qualifications, but this is fairly unusual in Taiwan.
IMO, English ability depends more on the gap between the students’ native language and the target language than many other thought to be important condition. Native speakers of Korean, Chinese and Japanese and to some extent Arabic (I am sure there are others), for the most part, tend to hit their plateau at the intermediate level. It takes a lot of commitment and motivation (aptitude also plays a part) from the student to get beyond that. Past perfect continuous, anyone?
I don’t know if Taiwan’s teachers are ‘better’ or not, but teaching is only a small part of the pie. I’ve found in Taiwan that many students assume that the teacher and the lesson is all they need, whereas in language learning, a class is simply a springboard, or a chance to practice. The real learning happens alone, at home.
That doesn’t make much difference. A professional teacher will have read about the phonemic make up of a language and deal with it. The point is not whether a teacher can understand anyway, the point is whether a Canadian bus driver or a British hotel receptionist can understand, as wisher’s experience demonstrates.[/quote]
Very true - I should have mentioned that my post was entirely anecdotal, and based on an exhaustive survey of…three. Two and a half, actually, as one was drunk.
Again anecdotal, but compared with ten to fifteen years ago, I would say that level of the teachers, both native and foreign has improved quite a bit. The number of native speakers who considered themselves professional teachers was practically nill. Illegal bushibans with closets for foreign teachers to hide in case of police raids were far more common than now. There really were local teachers that were only a few poorly written textbook pages ahead of their students.
It was really a function of supply and demand regarding teachers back then, and remains so now. There are more foreigners here teaching English now, students that want to find experienced, “qualified” teachers have many more opportunities to do so.
Now that the market for English teaching is so bloated, the consumer has far more options. It boils down to supply, demand, and the exhange rate, IMO.
Again, I don’t know if Taiwan’s teachers are better than anywhere else in Asia, but I would be willing to bet on a supply/demand/exchange rate formula. What I can say is that overall, they’re a hell of a lot better than they were, and will continue to be just as good as the market demands.
Having worked a lot in teacher training, I think Taiwan does have better systems for molding native speakers of little or no teaching experience into reasonably competent classroom teachers.
There are many young Taiwanese coming through the kindergarten, anchingban, bushiban education system with excellent English. I have seen many young students whose level of reading competency, and writing ability are on par with expectations of native speakers for their equivalent ages.
Sometimes I’m gobsmaked at some children’s ability to learn English. Much of the credit lies with the kids themselves, but I think a lot belongs to their teachers as well.
I wouldn’t say the “majority” of Filipinos can speak reasonably fluent English because the majority do NOT get past the sixth grade. I believe 60% (or more) of the population remains under the UN definition of poverty (US$ 1 a day income). Of the remaining 40%, I wouldn’t be surprised if half are working poor or lower middle class.
I graduated from high school in the Philippines just after Marcos fled. There was a 6-year wave of nationalism after he left that many blame for the decision to gut English from primary school curriculums, and switch to Pilipino (a dialect that more than half of the country would not care to speak, even if they could). The result was an unprecedented decline in the standard of education for the majority - a shock when you consider how dependant the economy is today on Filipinos working abroad and the call center industry, which relies on solid English communication skills.
Would anyone mind having a PM discussion about this topic? I ask because I have some specific questions about my own school and would hate to voice them publicly and have them be misread by anyone who might happen to find the site…then have it fall back on me.
Matt
Shure. Bit busy today and tomorrow, but I’ll definitely get back to you.
Thanks. I may reply later in a PM. Busy at the moment doing something else. If I do reply in PM, don’t feel like you have to answer right away.
Matt