It’s the opinion of most Taiwanese men I’ve talked to that the Taiwan army is pretty much a joke, a place to park themselves for a couple of years so the country “looks like” they have a “real” military. I tried to do some searching on the net and it seems that while you can find serious information on the capabilities of most of the world’s militaries, it seems like the purpose of the Taiwanese military is just so they can say they have one.
What are they really capable of? Defending Taiwan by themselves…from who?
Humanitarian efforts?..where?
Patrolling waters…my grandma can do that.
Anything else?
I am of the opinion that the purpose of Taiwan’s military is just to save face and be able to say that “yes, we have a military” until someone changes my mind. And if they do anything besides spin guns around and march around looking spiffy just for show, can you post pics of it? Thanks[/i]
And what was it with the sniper (from the 10/10 parade) in the news today? I saw it on the TV, but my Chinese is not good enough to completely follow what was going on.
It seemed (to me) that the problem was that he had his finger over the trigger. Isn’t that what a sniper is meant to do?
[quote=“cfimages”]And what was it with the sniper (from the 10/10 parade) in the news today? I saw it on the TV, but my Chinese is not good enough to completely follow what was going on.
It seemed (to me) that the problem was that he had his finger over the trigger. Isn’t that what a sniper is meant to do?[/quote]
Jesus, no! Not a real sniper, at least. Finger off the trigger until you have a target and a shot, surely? Pretty much rule number one, I’d have thought. Maybe he’s “sniping with Taiwanese characteristics” though. That might explain it.
Taiwan’s military is surely no joke. They actively defended the island (well outlaying islands) against attempted invasion and heavy shelling in the 50’s and 60’s. Unlike the militaries of many countries, Taiwan has a clear and present danger that it must remain prepared for at all times. Like Israel and South Korea it is at risk of invasion at any moment. Sure the military is a joke for those who go in because of the mandatory conscription, but for those who are career, they take it very seriously. In my opinion, and from what I’ve heard talking with military officers and a few soldiers, they mean serious business. In fact, given the islands relatively small population, limited resources, and international isolation, I think Taiwan has done a hell of a job trying to keep its military capabilities effective enough keep the mainland at bay (as though Taiwan would certainly lose any cross-strait conflict, the cost for China would be terrible enough, attack has been deemed a last resort in the CCP cadres.)
China has been busy fighting itself since the beginning of history. The Chinese are the biggest threat to themselves. Nobody outside of Japan (and the Mongols ala Genghis Khan) had wanted to take over China. And Japanese being Han people are the same race essentially as the Chinese and Koreans (many would dispute that I know). Maybe its that internal conflict gene working again there. A war between Taiwan and China would be very fierce. Taiwanese are Chinese people and Chinese people throughout history have been shown to be fierce fighters when warring.
China has always thought of itself as its own Universe and rarely battle outside of its borders (Genghis khan was Mongolian and was different).
I think given enough time, Taiwan and China can work out its differences as the life styles equalize among the two. I would hope there is never war between the two.
The Xiongnu, who raided northern Han settlements for centuries, creating a large part of China never firmly under Han control?
The Khitan (Qidan), who conquered northern China in 907 and ruled as the Liao Dynasty until 1125?
The Jurchen (Nuzhen), who conquered the Khitan and assumed control over their territories including northern China as the Jin Dynasty, until they were replaced by the Mongols in 1234?
Buwhaahhaahhaa. That’s funny stuff, tommy.
If that were true then China’s borders would occupy an area that is only a fraction of its present day dimensions. The Han conquered or displaced a variety of peoples as they expanded their territory, just like any other empire. In addition, China traditionally defined its relationship with other countries as either tributory state or enemy. The well-known adventures of Zhong He and his massive fleet were efforts by the Ming to restore the tributory status of nations that had fallen by the wayside during the occupation period (10th the 14th centuries).
We are just going to lump all those pesky nomadic mongol type warriors into the same bowl for the purposes of this discussion
And lets say HAN China basically was most kept busy warring against each other. All the pesky minorities simply were assimilated into the HAN over time.
Dont let the pesky details get in the way of a Good Story
p.s. besides all those minorities were really “Chinese” in the HAN way of thinking (much like Tibet today) so they were really "part of China " anyway
Unfortunately thats why China thinks TAiwan is part of China.
The 50’s and 60’s aren’t now. What are they capable of NOW?
I think a couple of bombs could take out Taiwan. Taiwan can’t live without electricity and fresh water. What if someone wants to surround Taiwan with boats to prevent any and all shipments of food and supplies coming in? What are Taiwan’s soldiers going to do in the face of that except wave white flags? (which is virtually all that the conscripted guys are trained to do)
The only conscripted guys who don’t say their service is a total joke are the Private Pyles being given such a rough time in it that they have to lie to their civilian friends about it so that they don’t lose respect in 100% of all areas of their social life.
The last link, though a pdf, was pretty cool. It states that in 2000 Taiwan’s solution to a naval blockade was to count on the U.S. for help. I guess the conscripted guys know how to use their cellphones pretty well.
I’ll look through your other links, some cool stuff there.
The second-to-last link was nice too, I wish I’d gone to the parade on 10/10 to see the equipment they trotted out for show. But c’mon, what can those two missiles do? How many does China have pointing towards Taiwan now?
Maybe Canada will give Taiwan some attack helicopters like the ones the Canadians just built for China.
The last link, though a pdf, was pretty cool. It states that in 2000 Taiwan’s solution to a naval blockade was to count on the U.S. for help. I guess the conscripted guys know how to use their cellphones pretty well.
I’ll look through your other links, some cool stuff there.
The second-to-last link was nice too, I wish I’d gone to the parade on 10/10 to see the equipment they trotted out for show. But c’mon, what can those two missiles do? How many does China have pointing towards Taiwan now?
Maybe Canada will give Taiwan some attack helicopters like the ones the Canadians just built for China.[/quote]
Taiwan has some excellent fighter pilots and helicopter pilots, many were trained in the UK.
Their new missile (indigenous) which can hit many targets in mainlad China was not on display. When you can make one you can make many more. Taiwan’s strategy is the same now as thirty years ago. They will hit China where it hurts, like Shanghai etc. They will damage China’s economy and centers of commerce.
Getting onto this island is not joke. China until this day does not even have enough landing craft.
As Hitler learned in WWII taking an island is a hell of a lot harder than taking a land locked target. YOu must first neutralize your enemy’s air force and navy before you can even think about landing troops. And then you must find a nice beach (something Taiwan doesn’t have a lot of) and then, get your troops on shore amidst a hail of artillery and machine gun fire. No easy task for even the largest militaries.
The allied did in WWII … but with heavy losses … and the US forces did in the Pacific against the Japanese … with heavy losses …
… but now there are different weapons used …
Not one of my friends, who have all completed military service, are willing to make a stand and fight-off an invasion from China. They told me so in no uncertain terms. Maybe they are just not a particulary patriotic group. Also, I have spoken to no more than a handful of locals who have not described their military service a complete waste of time with ma-ma-hu-hu basic training that involved firing no more than 12 live rounds. Maybe I’m just moving in the wrong circles, but the impression I get is that the majority of Taiwanese are not ready to fight, not to even mention die, for their country.
Taking the military serios? I think not. But that’s just my perception. Maybe we can hear from somoene who actually did military service here/are connected to the miltary in some way.
Doesn’t really matter what they’re like or their attitude. The draft plan as such is not to invade but rather blockade, isolate and rain down missiles until the government gives up screaming before a very fed up population turn on it. Three months tops.
So you say HGC, but there have been numerous times in history where raining down missiles and bombs have only strengthened your enemy’s resolve. I think it is hard to say what the people of this country would do until the bombs actually start falling and people start dying. Dire times tend to bring out extraordinary feats. I’m no idealist, but if I can recall my history correctly, relentless bombing campaigns alone have never defeated anyone.
Of course they think it’s a complete waste of time; they were draftees and would by definition much rather be doing something else, something fun, profitable, pleasant, whatever. Also, every guy loves to complain about his military service; it’s not seen as popular to say you enjoyed any part of it.
In any case, these days the military service has been cut down to almost nothing, with hardly more than a year’s time in, laughably easy alternative service plans and drastic reductions in numbers. It seems to me that this period of time in between trying to get rid of the conscription service and before a proper volunteer force has been cultivated, is probably the most vulnerable for Taiwan.
It won’t be too difficult for them to produce more missiles.
And thanks to the high tech industry, what used to be the hardest part of making a missile (guidance and control), can now be farmed out to Garmin and/or HTC.
They don’t need to match them missile for missile, if they have enough to put the hurt on Shanghai, that could prove to be a hell of a deterrant.
The KMT still controls the military though, so will they be willing to launch is another question.
Interesting point, Paogao. I wonder if Taiwan can make an effective transition into an all-volunteer force given the cultural leanings toward military service in this country. Yet, both presidential candidates have said they will work to toward that goal. Perhaps if the government can make the pay and benefits of military service profitable and appealing, like the US and other naitons, then maybe they will be able to attract enough men and women to serve. After all, the economy is very competitive and quite ruthless for those who don’t excel in bookwork. If soldiering paid well enough, it might offer a decent alternative for those who don’t make the grade for college.
