'Taliban' making a come back in Pakistan

I really hope that things go well in Afghanistan, 'cause if not, and if things continue to go this way in Pakistan, that’ll be a very large, very backwards and dangerous corner of Asia for a long time to come.

I wonder what the Pakistani military would do with their nukes should it appear that the local Taliban were about to overthrow the government.

[quote=“Guardian: Pakistani Taliban take control of unruly tribal belt”]A powerful new militia dubbed “the Pakistani Taliban” has effectively seized control of swaths of the country’s northern tribal areas in recent months, triggering alarm in Islamabad and marking a big setback in America’s “war on terror”.

The militants are strongest in North and South Waziristan, two of seven tribal agencies on the border with Afghanistan. Strict social edicts have been handed down: shopkeepers may not sell music or films; barbers are instructed not to shave beards. Yesterday a bomb blew up a radio transmitter in Wana, taking the state radio off the air.

Militants collect taxes from passing vehicles at new checkpoints, and last week an Islamic court was established in Wana to replace the traditional jirga, or council of elders. Rough justice has already been dispensed elsewhere. A gang of seven alleged bandits were executed in Miran Shah in December and their bodies were hung from a post in the town centre.

The violent puritanism is spreading. On Sunday a remote-controlled bomb ripped through a police vehicle in Dera Ismail Khan, near South Waziristan, killing seven people. More than 100 pro-government elders and politicians have been killed in the past nine months, said a diplomat.
[…]
President Pervez Musharraf has vowed to quell the revolt. Since declaring a curfew in Miran Shah, government troops have regained control. But some people are worried. “The so-called war on terror is going badly,” said one diplomat.

Comparisons to the emergence of the Afghan Taliban in the early 1990s are increasing. Although they have distinct identities, the groups are strongly linked - both are ethnic Pashtun - and Afghans use Waziristan as a rear base.

Analysts say the Pakistani Taliban is a loose alliance of tribal militia operating under radical clerics such as Sadiq Noor and Abdul Khaliq. Many are angered by heavy-handed Pakistani military attacks against suspected al-Qaida hideouts, which are thought to have killed hundreds of civilians over the last two years.
[…]
The US is impatient to catch more senior al-Qaida figures. Unmanned Predator drones, now armed with Hellfire missiles, sweep over the tribal areas on surveillance missions so often that villagers now recognise their engine noise.

In January American forces destroyed a house in Bajaur tribal agency where it thought al-Qaida’s second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, was hiding. Thirteen villagers were killed. The US has carried out several strikes, said a well-placed diplomat, but it has let Pakistan claim responsibility.

Such attacks have won the militants much support. “These are not the proper Taliban,” said the refugee Mr Khan. “They are the common people who have revolted against the [Pakistani] government and targeted killings by Americans.”[/quote]

I think Canada has been flirting with Sharia law also.

One, not happening. Two, much of the issue here isn’t religion or law, but a specific cultural (conservative Pashtun) interpretation thereof.

Best expressed in song…Toby Keith

[quote]“The Taliban Song”

"I’m just a middle-aged, middle-eastern camel herdin’ man
I got a little, 2 bedroom cave here in North Afghanistan
Things used to be real nice and they got out of hand when they moved in
They call themselves the Taliban
(ooooo yeah the taliban) (taliban baby)

Now I ain’t seen my wife’s face since they came here
They make her wear a scarf over her head that covers her from ear to ear
She loves the desert and the hot white sand
But man she’s just like me, nah she can’t stand
The Taliban (ooo taliban baby)

You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do just fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip the finger to the Taliban
(oh yeah the taliban) (baby)

I know where you comin from brother!
This is a patriotic love song
So y’all feel free to salute if you want,
You got my permission.

Now they attacked New York City cause they thought they could win
Said they would, stand and fight until the very bloody end
Mr Bush got on the phone with Iraq and Iran and said “Now, you
sons-of-bitches you better not be doin any business with the taliban”
(Taliban baby)

So we prayed to Allah with all of our might
Until those big U.S. jets came flyin one night
They dropped little bombs all over their holy land
And man you should have seen em run like rabbits, they ran
(the taliban)

You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do real fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a couple fingers to the Taliban
(oh yeah, taliban)
we’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a finger to The Taliban (baby)"
[/quote]

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Best expressed in song…Toby Keith

[quote]“The Taliban Song”

"I’m just a middle-aged, middle-eastern camel herdin’ man
I got a little, 2 bedroom cave here in North Afghanistan
Things used to be real nice and they got out of hand when they moved in
They call themselves the Taliban
(ooooo yeah the Taliban) (Taliban baby)

Now I ain’t seen my wife’s face since they came here
They make her wear a scarf over her head that covers her from ear to ear
She loves the desert and the hot white sand
But man she’s just like me, nah she can’t stand
The Taliban (ooo Taliban baby)

You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do just fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip the finger to the Taliban
(oh yeah the Taliban) (baby)

I know where you comin from brother!
This is a patriotic love song
So y’all feel free to salute if you want,
You got my permission.

Now they attacked New York City cause they thought they could win
Said they would, stand and fight until the very bloody end
Mr Bush got on the phone with Iraq and Iran and said “Now, you
sons-of-bitches you better not be doin any business with the Taliban”
(Taliban baby)

So we prayed to Allah with all of our might
Until those big U.S. jets came flyin one night
They dropped little bombs all over their holy land
And man you should have seen em run like rabbits, they ran
(the Taliban)

You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do real fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a couple fingers to the Taliban
(oh yeah, Taliban)
we’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a finger to The Taliban (baby)"
[/quote][/quote]

Not one much for Mr. Keith’s poppier numbers, but this is a CLASSIC!
A crowd pleaser : “I said, ‘Ride, Sally, ride!’!”,
except for those pouty Canucks,
a perennnial pustering plurality of posturing, poseuring Pogues!
The Ugly Ones, At Least. They’ve got The Syndrome… :boo-hoo:

And as for Waziristan, it 's always been a hotbed of fundamentalist insurgents. The Pakistani Military has always run Search & Destroy missions. The terrain is ideally suited for defence. Osama and his buddies have probably hung out there once or twice.

I hope those Taliban meet their just rewards as soon as possible. :grrr:

I see Mr Keith’s knowledge of history and geography is right up there with his musical ability

Well it is about religion…it’s about a strict interpretation of Islam, none of which is limited to Pashtun culture. Similar Islamic societies exist in other parts of the world with completely different languages and ethnicities. Considering that religion is in most instances an integral part of culture, we’re kind of splitting hairs here. But to say that it has little to do with religion is inaccurate. It’s certainly inaccurate from the standpoint of the Taliban, who believe they are obeying God’s Law.

Fortunately I have a very uplifting story to add to this. A couple of months ago I watched a Discovery Times special on Pakistani Taliban. The woman reporter was a native of the region and spoke their language. She visited a village in the far north of Pakistan near the Afghanistan border. The reporter was really fantastic. In the car she’d take off her hijab, which itself was far more colorful and stylish than the village women wore (some even wore full burkas). Anyways, it’s starts off pretty depressing. She interviews some bearded old guys who tell her in essence that women need to know their place, obey Islam and stay indoors, etc. The religious police of the village enforce the no music rule, but the reporter ends up interviewing a musician. He was a handsome man, with a mustache but no beard, and a big smile on his face. The interview took place in his home/workshop, and there was instruments everywhere. She asks him if he’s afraid to play music, knowing what might happen to him if he does. He says that the religious police quickly learned that he did not intend to observe the music ban, and so they came to his home and beat him, then took him to jail. By this point I’m pretty depressed and was about to switch the channel when the musician suddenlys says, “So yeah, now I’m more determined than ever to keep playing.”

The reporter looked as shocked as me. She asked, “But aren’t you afraid what they might do to you disobey them again?”

He responds, “Nope. My family has been playing music in this village for seventeen generations, and I’m not about to stop playing my music because some bearded jerks who think they’re more Islamic than me tell me to. Let them come. It shouldn’t be hard to find me again. All they have to do is listen for my music.”

I do believe he deserves the Stephen Colbert Big Brass Balls award:

After that she interviews some other men, both young and old alike, many of whom tell her that they don’t want their wives to wear burkas, or have to stay inside all the time. And they don’t appreciate the “beardos” telling them what to do. One of the funniest and even a little heart-warming aspects of the show was all the wisecracks I heard about beards. They even had a clip of President Musharraf saying that he’s not going to be told to grow a beard by anybody. At the end of the show they went back to the village where that musician was holding a huge party by this pool thing resembling the one at the Washington Memorial. Unfortunately I didn’t see any women there, but the guys were playing music and dancing and really just having a great time. I suspect they feared to bring their wives because of the ever lurking religious police. Anyways, it made me feel really good to see that even in the most isolated parts of Pakistan where the Talibani religious police control the villages, there are still people who openly resist them.

Exactly what is factually incorrect about those lyrics? Pretty simplistic and lunkheaded, but I don’t see any major factual boners there…

MikeN, Mod Lang, TheGingerMan -
I do hope you have the opportunity to actually hear Tobys song sometime. Its an acoustic guitar tune thats quite humerous. A tender, yet ironic, love ballad.
Quite funny and entertaining.

p.s. - TheGingerMan - Have you read Donleavys “The Beatly Beatitudes of Balthazar B” ?
One of my all time favorite books. I re-read it every 2 years.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]MikeN, Mod Lang, TheGingerMan -
I do hope you have the opportunity to actually hear Tobys song sometime. Its an acoustic guitar tune thats quite humerous. A tender, yet ironic, love ballad.
Quite funny and entertaining.

p.s. - TheGingerMan - Have you read Donleavys “The Beatly Beatitudes of Balthazar B” ?
One of my all time favorite books. I re-read it every 2 years.[/quote]

I must have heard that song about 87 times, usually when I’m out drinking with my LunkHeaded American friends. I like it, it’s humorous.

TC: While I have often admired that title “Beastly Beatitudes”., I’ve never read it. A good read, yeh? I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for the reccommend!

Exactly what is factually incorrect about those lyrics? Pretty simplistic and lunkheaded, but I don’t see any major factual boners there…[/quote]

To spend time deconstructing Toby Keith- and you’re right TC, that was a bit of snark- I’d probably like it- I’m a fan of country music, always excepting the full Nashville Sound- but here goes

[quote]“The Taliban Song”

"I’m just a middle-aged, middle-eastern camel herdin’ man
I got a little, 2 bedroom cave here in North Afghanistan
Things used to be real nice and they got out of hand when they moved in
They call themselves the Taliban[/quote]

Taliban era -1995 -2001 (all approx)
Warlord era -1992-1995
Communist/Soviet war 1979-1992

When did things used to be real nice? The reason the Taliban swept over almost all of Afghanistan was that people were sick of the chaos of the warlords, and the Taliban imposed (very harsh)Law and Order- they got things back in hand. At the beginning at least, they were disciplined and non-corrupt.
Of course, he could be lamenting the passing of the looting, kidnapping and rapine of the good ole’ Warlord days…

[quote](ooooo yeah the Taliban) (Taliban baby)

Now I ain’t seen my wife’s face since they came here
They make her wear a scarf over her head that covers her from ear to ear
She loves the desert and the hot white sand
But man she’s just like me, nah she can’t stand
The Taliban (ooo Taliban baby)[/quote]

Of course, a man can always see his wife’s face in private, and sometimes among close relatives.
And in Kabul and among the educated classes, many women didn’t wear the veil, going back to King Amanullah (who was chased out for such modernisation)
The communists banned the burqa, along with setting up schools for women and giving them equal rights, which only made them more unpopular among traditionalists ( just like the Shah next door)

I suspect that any middle-aged, camel herdin’ cave-dwelling Northern Afghan would happily chop Mr. Keith into little pieces if he suggested that his wife bare her face in the company of male strangers.

(Full disclosure- I’ve only spent about three weeks in Afghanistan, it was thirty-two years ago, and I was stoned out of my gourd the whole time.)

[quote]You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do just fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip the finger to the Taliban
(oh yeah the Taliban) (baby)[/quote]

Now this does make me wonder whether the whole thing is brilliant satire.
To suggest Palestine - under the boot of the hated Jews- or Turkmenistan- ruled by a former Communist megalomaniac who makes Kim Jong-il look like Jimmy Carter - as examples of freedom to an Afghan nomad seeking escape from oppression…

Or maybe it just rhymed

Wag the Dog-

Willie Nelson: Albania… it’s hard to rhyme.
Dustin Hoffman: What do you want me to do, it’s the name of the country…

Willie: Albania, Albania
Dustin:That rhymes.

[quote]Now they attacked New York City cause they thought they could win
Said they would, stand and fight until the very bloody end
Mr Bush got on the phone with Iraq and Iran and said “Now, you
sons-of-bitches you better not be doin any business with the Taliban”
(Taliban baby)[/quote]

And Iraq said, you know we ain’t, so what is your complaint?
we’re not doin nothing with no Taleban
And Bush said that may be true, but what I’m tellin’ you
If you can’t find Osama , bomb Saddam

And Iran said:
Don’t worry, Mr. Bush, while you been sittin’ on your tush
And payin’ no attention to Afghanistan
For a guy named Ahmed Massoud, we’ve been doin’ what we could
To give him guns and money for to fight the Taliban

[quote]So we prayed to Allah with all of our might
Until those big U.S. jets came flyin one night
They dropped little bombs all over their holy land
And man you should have seen em run like rabbits, they ran
(the Taliban)

You know someday soon we’re both gonna saddle up and it’ll be
Ride Camel Ride
My old lady she’ll be here with me, smilin right by my side
We should do real fine out around Palestine or maybe Turkmenistan
We’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a couple fingers to the Taliban
(oh yeah, Taliban)
we’ll bid a fair adieu and flip a finger to The Taliban (baby)" [/quote]

They’re baaaack…

MikeN-
Its a song…not a documentary.
Enjoy, relax and put a smile on yer face… :smiley:

Sorry- get carried away at times.

Speaking of great country music-
The Dixie Chicks;
“Not Ready to Make Nice”:

[quote]Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I

The “Dixie Chicks” ?

My god man…next you’ll be sole sourcing your quotes using the crap on WikiWacki… :loco:

Okay, since they’ve won four Grammys and made $100 million bucks since then, it may be a little whiney…