Teach English w/o a passport from 1 of 'the 7 countries'?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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When a job requires a NATIVE ENGLISH speaker is it acceptable for people who are let’s say Afrikaans, Tongan, any other language speakers to apply? :?:
If the teacher does not have a good level of English is it just tough luck for the school??

To clarify the question again - WE are talking about positions for Native English Speakers, so posts about ABC’s and Taiwanese English Teachers and those from Non-English speaking countries are irrelevant.

This is not a troll.

I have a South African friend who told me that many Afrikaans speakers in Taiwan have difficulty conducting a conversation in English and yet are English Teachers.

What’s your opinion? :?:
I haven’t expressed my opinion yet, so let’s not start a flame fest :smiley:

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It’s just that the visa regulations allow RSA passports. They also exclude many speakers of English without certain passports who could teach English perfectly well. Plenty of British, Amercian, etc, citizens I am sure have poor English, but technically would not be barred by the Ministry of Fun from teaching English.

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To get an ARC teaching English, one must be from US, Canada, England, Scotland, N. Ire, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand or Australia. Even if you’re from Sweden and have superlative English skills (an old colleague of mine’s wife), you cannot get a visa to teach English here.
So, the South Africans with bad English who’re teaching English here are just lucky.
But personally, I’ve never met anyone from S.Afr who had crap English. It sounds like an accent problem, not an English ability thing. Perhaps there are some, but I would guess very few.

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What about the dulcet toned men of Harlech. Sniff :cry:

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thought it didn’t have anything to do with your passport, it had more to do with the fact that your degree came from a college or univeristy in the countries listed below

US, Canada, England, Scotland, N. Ire, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand or Australia

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[quote=“TNT”]thought it didn’t have anything to do with your passport, it had more to do with the fact that your degree came from a college or univeristy in the countries listed below

US, Canada, England, Scotland, N. Ire, Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand or Australia[/quote]

I think that it has to do with both your passport and degree.
You need to be a citizen of one of the English speaking countries.

Personally, I am from New Zealand, but there are plenty of NZers that have crap English that I wouldn’t want teaching English.

Should we have an English test for the teachers before they are given a work permit or should we continue pulling the wool over the eyes of the local authorities? :wink: I’m all for the wool thing being from NZ ‘n’ all. :laughing:

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[quote=“bassman”]
Should we have an English test for the teachers before they are given a work permit or should we continue pulling the wool over the eyes of the local authorities? [/quote]

Well, they don’t give the Taiwanese teachers much of a test to see if they can speak English before starting to teach it, so why would so-called “native” speakers be any different?

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The South African folks who teach in Taiwan can be classified into two groups:

English native speakers

Afrikaans native speakers

Schools in South Africa, at least when I was in high school, were arranged like this:

If, like me, your native language is English-both parents are of British descent-then you were placed in the system with English as your first language and Afrikaans as your second.

If, your native language is Afrikaans-your parents are of Dutch or French ancestry-then you were placed in the system with Afrikaans as your first language and English as your second.

Both languages were given equal importance. One could not graduate without passing both.

Both languages were compulsory for white and colored South Africans during Apartheid. Of the 7 million or so South Africans whose mothers first spoke to them in either of these languages, the majority are Afrikaners.

Most Afrikaners attend university at one of South Africa’s Afrikaans universities–Stellenbosch, Rand Afrikaans University, etc.

Many South Africans here in Taiwan are then graduates of Afrikaans universities, yet they speak English fluently. I’m South African, but having studied in the States and having lived in the UK for a few years, I too find their accents a little hard on the ear.

But hey, if little Jimmy can understand Pietie from Potgietersrus, then by god, he will be able to understand anyone’s English.

Give these guys a break. The Taiwanese government does not understand, and, as long as they don’t, any South African passport holder with a degree has every legal right to be here teaching English. Besides, “times are tough” in South Africa. Taiwan is a fascinating country and an economic opportunity for them, as it is for me and some of you.

Yes, I am not happy that although I am a native speaker and speak clearer than many Americans, Canadians, Englishmen, Australians, New Zealanders (the order of preference among hirers), I am still, because of my SA passport, ranked with Afrikaners in the job hunting game.

Thank god, however, I am out of that racket.

So Bassman, I am sure you by bringing this up must have some opinion contrary to mine. Where is your Christian goodwill? Or are you having trouble finding a job?

Many Afrikaners teach in Chiayi or some other god-forsaken small town? Would you like to?

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My friend took an English test (spoken, written and listening) to enter the national teacher training program for elementary school English teachers.
Her English is excellent but she says the same can not be said of her classmates who will soon be in classrooms teaching kids to say “ay bee see dee ee EFFOO…”

What about regional accents then? I know a Brit in Taichung with a strong cockney accent who teaches in a kindergarten. I often wonder how his students sound after a few years of his fine tutelage. I suppose as long as their pronounciation is clear, it doesn’t really matter.
A Scottish kindergarten teacher I used to know was given a hard time by the father of one student who wanted her kid to have an American accent. I taught her class once and all the kids had Taiwanese accented English without a trace of Scottish. I think Chinese teachers help to iron out any overly interesting regional wrinkles, for want of a better phrase.

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I’m not giving any one a hard time Alley Cat. My point is that one of my S.A co-workers made a statement that he has met many S.A teachers in Taiwan that could not hold a simple conversation in English with him. They could teach ABC and that was about it, so I am told. Now that I am looking for a new teacher and many S.A residents have applied, he warned me to be careful.

This is coming from a South African, so before you go accusing me of giving anyone a hard time you’d better check with your fellow countryman.

From what I understand personally this could be true. I do not by any means wish to discriminate against South Africans in Taiwan.

Oh and I have a good job teaching, same job 4 years, and never have any problem finding any students - So back the truck up because you are driving in the wrong direction.

South Africans, as far as people that I will hire as teachers, are way up there on the list, well above arrogant Americans and Canadians. I just raised this point to see the opinion of others as I don’t know just how true my S.A friends opinion is.

Ok - are we all clear on that now?

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Bassman:

I find it really difficult to believe some South Africans have trouble speaking English. It’s our official language.

If there are, however, surely, during the interview, you would be able to tell, even if the person is an Afrikaner, whether he or she is able to speak with enough fluency to teach English.

Why open this can?

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Curiousity killed the cat - That’s why I opened the can.
And that things have recently become complicated in getting teachers from S.A. My S.A collegue suggested that this may be the problem. He said 70% of his countrymen that he has met in Taiwan have appauling English. Obviously, from your reply, this is not the case at all.
Yes, it is easy to tell from a conversation on the telephone, however there are some agents who don’t allow contact - this makes me more than a little suspicious.

Back to entry complications - S.A people now require a local guarantor before a visa will be issued even for a tourist. Is this because S.A did the dirty politically on Taiwan or is it because of some other problems?

I think we are all big enough to discuss this without reading too much into it. I do not discriminate myself, but I am sure that the company I work for will if I cannot reassure them that S.Africans have good English. I know that it doesn’t sound fair, and I don’t think that it is fair either. I said at the beginning that I had not stated my opinion at all.

The can has been opened as Segue is a great place to gather information as the international flavor and opinion gives a great reflection of the reality of this situation. Please do not be offended as no offense is intended.

On another point, English may be an official language. But is that not true also of Singapore? Yet I have met many a Singaporean who could not string an intelligent sentence together in English, his Chinese on the other hand was awesome. The same can also be said to be true in my own country, for that matter maybe any western country. We have become so multi-cultural that for many of us our countries national language has become a second language because of it’s lack of use in our daily lives. For the most part could this also be true for South Africa?

Now, your point before about Christian Charity. That has nothing to do with it, this is business and I am conducting this enquiry as I have encounterend this issue is my workplace. I have found many South Africans willing to come and teach and would love to give them the vaccant position as they are more than suitably qualified. The last applicant that I interviewed gave his reason for wanting to teach in Taiwan as “I can’t wait to get out of this place”. I’d love to help him out too. For another position this language question has become an issue because of recent reports and visa application changes. I just want to get the facts…

Thanks a lot for your input, I am sure that I can put my bosses mind at ease if this is indeed the case.

Thanks Alley Cat

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I find that some South Africans are very critical of the “Afrikaner” accent. Grammatically there might be nothing wrong with somebody’s English, but it could still be viewed as inferior because of the accent.

On the other hand, location is very important in South Africa. Somebody who grew up in Cape Town or Johannesburg probably had more access to English friends and practice than somebody living in a small Afrikaans-speaking rural community (very intense generalization).

This is a case where you need to judge the individual’s ability, though I’ve yet to meet a South African that I thought couldn’t teach in Taiwan (but I guess I’m not qualified to judge).

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Even though we were a British colony, of the 50 million people in South Africa, only 5% speak English as their first language. Many native English speakers are first, second, and third generation British immigrants. You can tell, firstly, by our accents, and, secondly, more often than not, by our names.

Although English is our official language, there are 10 others, Afrikaans, Zulu, Sotho, Xhosa, Ndebele, etc.

The irony is that although Afrikaans was the language of the

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Further to my first post Bassman, I apologise for calling on you for your Christian goodwill. I’m a hypocrite as I’m in no way religious. That was a cheap shot.

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Thanks Alleycat, I think we understand each other now. I have a guy flying in from Nataal very soon, fresh out of school, 24 yrs old. My boss only accepted him because he could get here quickly, it is going to be a slow process to change this Taiwan train of thought about South Africans.

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Hi all!

I was just wondering if any of you are or have come across expat. esl teachers who are NOT from one of the following countries: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, UK & USA.
If so , then from whuch country?

Thx

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[quote=“berquist”]Hi all!

I was just wondering if any of you are or have come across expat. esl teachers who are NOT from one of the following countries: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, UK & USA.
If so , then from whuch country?

Thx[/quote]

The government has a list of countries it deems to be English speaking. If you do not have a passport, along with a credential (normally a BA degree), from one of those countries, you cannot get a work permit to teach English here. That is my understanding of the rules. Once in a while, I encounter someone not from one of the approved countries teaching here. They are, 99% of the time, working illegally without permits. The other 1% are married to Taiwanese.

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I’ve met a couple of people from Sweden who are/were teaching English here.

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Denmark