Teach English w/o a passport from 1 of 'the 7 countries'?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
401

While I admire you detective work, to me the answers you have got are not definitive.

Especially in Taiwan, where the only black and white you can expect is possibly gray, or maybe yellow.

It reminds me of the traffic laws when I was studying for my drivers test for both a scooter and car.

There is a law stating you may not modify your scooter with all the neon flashing lights all over the place. The dude doing the riding test before me had a scooter that looked like it was straight outta area 51.

No problem.

The traffic cop did not seem to mind, and judging by the number or similar scooters I see, this seems to be commonly accepted.

Why should this case any different?

The point I have made on a few posts, is that what the law/regulations state is not relevant.

What is practiced in reality is.

Every buxiban owner, administrator etc, tells me you will not get an ARC to work legally teaching English, without the required passport.

I admit, I have spoken to only about 5 people personally, who have confirmed this, and Funkymonkey does too. None of these people have any reason to lie.
Shit, 99.9999% of the school owners would love an impoverished Eastern European, that they could pay NT $ 200 an hour to if they could. If they can,why don’t they?
The average parent would not know the difference between a Kiwi and a Khazakstani, even if it kicked them in the ass.

Pick a 100 buxibans to walk into, and you will not find a person legally working outside the 7 (obviously JFRV and APRC excluded).

402

[quote=“Tempo Gain”]

In a nutshell, the school has to be one that has been pre-approved by the MOE, or the applicant has to get the degree certified at their home consulate. Will try to find out more. Quick look on MOE site didn’t turn up anything.[/quote]

I believe this is the list, thanks to CJ here:

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 5#p1305603

edu.tw/bicer/content.aspx?si … nt_sn=8487

Over 100 Nigerian institutions listed for arguments sake. Many countries not listed, but I’m getting the feeling this won’t be a big issue under stipulation 2 I posted above if one has attended any kind of reputable institution.

403

[quote=“Icon”]The thing is, Teacherlin, that the old hands here have seen it all: I’ve seen teh agents who give people paper ARc, supported by no documentation at that time the police -before NIA… and the subsecuent debacle. I’ve seen agents bend the rules to the fifth dimension to get people who are not native speakers work permits under the strangest banners. There are lots of ways to bend the rules. For instance, we’ve seen people time and time again teach with what they thought was a straightforward permit for one school just to find out that legally they “belonged” to another. Hence when someone come swith a “new” avenue for permits, we get a bit distrustful.

So, the problem is, that if the CLA policy is so “transparent”, why has no one heard about the changes widely and openly? For the old hands, the spidey senses are tingling. Probbaly we are going overboard, but please understand that, as far as we have seen before and as per previous experience, it is a normal reaction. Please do not look down on our defense mechanism, it has helped us survive so far. As to the people who have made it so far on this “new approach”, well in Spanish we say “one swallow does not summer make”. When you have a flock nesting in your port, you know summer is near. Let us hope there is some sunshine at the end of this discussion.[/quote]
Now with that I can agree. You are saying that while it is possible and probably likely to happen, you have doubts about some things. Big duke is calling those who know Filipinos working here liars and then when that failed he called them scaly people who bend the rules and bribed officials without taking into consideration that they might be dear to some people here. He also seems stuck in the fact that he cannot distinguish between the facts against his argument and what he so firmly believes based on having asked 5 people who clearly doesn’t have a clue. See the difference?
You I believe. Big Duke, not if my life depended on it. Hardheadedness brings no swallows. He wouldn’t recognize the swallows if they pooped on his scooter. TG has replied patiently to every ridiculous question posted after he made the call. His patience deserves some reward. I can only think of P9

404

[quote=“E04teacherlin”][quote=“Icon”]The thing is, Teacherlin, that the old hands here have seen it all: I’ve seen teh agents who give people paper ARc, supported by no documentation at that time the police -before NIA… and the subsecuent debacle. I’ve seen agents bend the rules to the fifth dimension to get people who are not native speakers work permits under the strangest banners. There are lots of ways to bend the rules. For instance, we’ve seen people time and time again teach with what they thought was a straightforward permit for one school just to find out that legally they “belonged” to another. Hence when someone come swith a “new” avenue for permits, we get a bit distrustful.

So, the problem is, that if the CLA policy is so “transparent”, why has no one heard about the changes widely and openly? For the old hands, the spidey senses are tingling. Probbaly we are going overboard, but please understand that, as far as we have seen before and as per previous experience, it is a normal reaction. Please do not look down on our defense mechanism, it has helped us survive so far. As to the people who have made it so far on this “new approach”, well in Spanish we say “one swallow does not summer make”. When you have a flock nesting in your port, you know summer is near. Let us hope there is some sunshine at the end of this discussion.[/quote]
Now with that I can agree. You are saying that while it is possible and probably likely to happen, you have doubts about some things. Big duke is calling those who know Filipinos working here liars and then when that failed he called them scaly people who bend the rules and bribed officials without taking into consideration that they might be dear to some people here. He also seems stuck in the fact that he cannot distinguish between the facts against his argument and what he so firmly believes based on having asked 5 people who clearly doesn’t have a clue. See the difference?
You I believe. Big Duke, not if my life depended on it. Hardheadedness brings no swallows. He wouldn’t recognize the swallows if they pooped on his scooter. TG has replied patiently to every ridiculous question posted after he made the call. His patience deserves some reward. I can only think of P9[/quote]

Please advise where I called them liars? I asked for proof, and there is nothing definitive.

The 5 people I asked are all school owners or those who deal with employment ARC’s for chain schools.

Surely they would know a little more about it than you? What exactly are your credentials? Do you own a school? Do you hire for a school?

Oh, also please advise where I used the word scaly? Are they reptiles?

Again, show me one school where people work legally without a passport from the 7?

Surely there must be quite a few considering anyone can work here.

BTW, my hardhead has resulted in a lot of swallows.

405

We don’t need to show you anything. I know of them. Mups knows of them and like I said before, I have personally helped the school I work for get an ARC for someone outside of the 7. school owner is just that. Not a lawyer who knows the law back to front or a government employee who needs to tick boxes before something is approved or declined. I am sure there are many reasons why there aren’t more people from outside the 7 working here. One might be that the schools don’t want to employ them. BUT - That wasn’t the question. The question was whether they could or not and the answer is a CLEAR yes.
Now you did imply that Mups was lying or that his friend lied to him about what he/she wrote on the ARC application. That is calling someone a liar. You also said that they probably paid bribes to get their ARC approved meaning they are not above board and hence the use of scaly. Certainly you know that word considering you are from inside the magical mystical 7.
My credentials are of no importance here. A process that is not fully understood by those on the outside of that process might consider it arbitrary, but no-one at any office can decline and ARC based on “I feel so”. I know there are some snide comments coming about Taiwanese people and Taiwanese law and how it is enforced, but the fact of the matter is that it just shows a misunderstanding of either the regulations or the process.
As far as I am concerned you owe mups an apology, but then again that’s not for me to decide arbitrarily.

406

[quote=“E04teacherlin”]We don’t need to show you anything. I know of them. Mups knows of them and like I said before, I have personally helped the school I work for get an ARC for someone outside of the 7. school owner is just that. Not a lawyer who knows the law back to front or a government employee who needs to tick boxes before something is approved or declined. I am sure there are many reasons why there aren’t more people from outside the 7 working here. One might be that the schools don’t want to employ them. BUT - That wasn’t the question. The question was whether they could or not and the answer is a CLEAR yes.
Now you did imply that Mups was lying or that his friend lied to him about what he/she wrote on the ARC application. That is calling someone a liar. You also said that they probably paid bribes to get their ARC approved meaning they are not above board and hence the use of scaly. Certainly you know that word considering you are from inside the magical mystical 7.
My credentials are of no importance here. A process that is not fully understood by those on the outside of that process might consider it arbitrary, but no-one at any office can decline and ARC based on “I feel so”. I know there are some snide comments coming about Taiwanese people and Taiwanese law and how it is enforced, but the fact of the matter is that it just shows a misunderstanding of either the regulations or the process.
As far as I am concerned you owe mups an apology, but then again that’s not for me to decide arbitrarily.[/quote]

Ok, lets get down to brass tacks. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. Are you?

Find me evidence that 0.5 % of English teachers here are from countries outside the 7, and that they are legally employed by an English school, as an English teacher and their ARC is sponsored by the school.

It must be on record, and as you have experience in this area it should be pretty simple.
So assume their are 10 000 English teachers, you only need to find evidence of 50 such teachers.
Do this and I will donate NT $ 10 000 to the charity of your choice and issue both you and Mups a public apology.

I think 0.5% is fair, as anything less is really irrelevant.

If you can’t you can donate NT $ 100 to the charity of my choice.

407

Typical.
I just donated 20000 to a charity of my choice - The Eden Foundation if you must know.
There is no need to find 1 teacher as that was not the original question. The original question was can someone outside of the 7 work here and in case you haven’t realized it, you were wrong. Game over.

408

There is no end to this. Even the heading says what the original question was. No need to continue a discussion with someone over this as it has been clearly answered.

409

No. A clear answer has not been given. TG’s discussion with the CLA was ambiguous, and the Buxiban Ass is not a decision making body.

There have been claims by various posters with zero proof. “A friend of mine…yada yada”, is far from proof, and as GIT pointed out, common business sense could result in many a highly profitable business, if indeed anyone could be hired.
Why pay NT $ 650 an hour, when you could be paying 300?

So either put your money where your mouth is, or zip it. Can you find 10 such teachers?

You personally sorted out the application of one such person, surely this is public record? That only leaves 9.

As I have said plenty times, what is actually practiced is what counts, not what a regulation might or might not say.

If the CLA does not issue ARC’s/work permits to those outside the 7, than no. They cannot work here legally. How can you work legally without a work permit?

410

Among the English teachers I know, I don’t know any whose surname begins with “A”.

I have never met any in the past either.

(I did hear of guy once who said his surname was Abercrombie, but that doesn’t count because I didn’t see his ARC, so he may have been lying. Hell, he may have even been lying about being an English teacher.)

Despite the lack of any official list of permitted surnames for English teachers, and despite official documentation that says that the national language of the country whose passport the teacher holds is the main factor in determining whether she/he can work here or not, I refuse to believe that any teacher with a surname beginning with “A” could possibly be employed to teach English in Taiwan.

Government policy is not the issue anyway. The fact is, no language schools that I know of employ any teachers whose surname begins with “A”. (Perhaps they’re superstitious about it.)

Based on this evidence, I would therefore advise anyone with a surname beginning with “A” who is thinking of coming to Taiwan to teach NOT to come.

Until anyone provides me with a list of 50 names of such teachers, I will continue to believe teachers with a surname beginning with “A” cannot be employed in Taiwan.

Sound familiar?

411

Regulations Governing Educational Institutions at All Levels Applying for Work Permits for Foreign Teachers and their Administration
http://edu.law.moe.gov.tw/EngLawContent.aspx?lan=E&id=304

Article 4
any language course taught by that person shall be a course on an official language of the nation that issued the passport of that foreign teacher.
教授之語文課程應為外籍教師護照國籍之官方語言。

各國之官方語言將依外交部網站「國家與地區」認定，該語言如另註明為「通行語言」、「通用語言」或「普及語言」，則非為官方語言

外交部網站「國家與地區」

Some countries using English as an official language. This is not a comprehensive list.

  • English is their official language
    India 官方語文為印度語(Hindi)及英語
    Singapore 官方語言為英語，華語、馬來語及印度塔米爾語
    Nigeria 英語為官方語言。
    Ghana 官方語言為英語
    Liberia 官方語言為英語
    Tanzania 英語及史瓦希里(Swahili)語 (官方語言)
    Zambia 英語（官方語言）
    South Africa 憲法規定共 11 種官方語言，包括英語
    Ireland 官方語言為愛爾蘭語及英語
    Canada 官方語文為英文及法文
    Belize 英語為官方語言
    Samoa 官方語言為薩摩亞語及英語
    Tuvalu 英語為官方語言
    Vanuatu 萬那杜語（Bislama），英、法語亦同為官方語文

  • English is their national language
    Philippines 英語及菲語(Tagalog)
    Uganda 英語
    Kenya 史瓦希里語(Kiswahili)及英文
    Australia 澳洲並無法定的官方語言，但依據通用習慣，英語為全國性的語言
    USA 英語
    UK 英語
    Pakistan 烏爾都語(Urdu)、英語
    Jamaica 英語
    New Zealand 英語、毛利語、手語
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 英語
    Trinidad and Tobago 英語
    Saint Lucia 英語
    Kiribati 吉里巴斯語及英語
    Palau 英語及帛琉語
    Papua New Guinea 英語與原住民混合語(Tok Pisin)、英語、莫圖語(Hiri Motu)
    Tonga 英語、東加語

  • Region
    Hong Kong 依香港法定語文條例規定，中文與英文皆為官方語言

  • English is NOT their official language.
    Netherlands 官方語言為荷文，英語僅為普及語言，非為官方語言
    Malaysia 官方語言為馬來，語英語及華語使用普遍
    Macau 中文及葡萄牙文皆為官方語言

To teach at regular schools

外籍教師所附合格任教資格證明文件如以下說明：

  1. 美國、英國、加拿大、澳洲、紐西蘭、南非等國皆有核發教師證。
  2. 紐西蘭師範學制 diploma of teaching即可任教。
  3. 持英國 QTS（Qualified Teacher Status）教師資格證明文件者，應另加檢附取得 TRA（Teaching Regulation Agency）核發通過 QTS Induction 證明文件。
  4. 無核發教師證國家，則應檢具該國官方認可，且具有學校任教資格證明文件，並經我駐外館處驗證。
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For cram schools, the relevant rule is the “Qualifications and Criteria Standards for foreigners undertaking the jobs specified under Article 46.1.1 to 46.1.6 of the Employment Service Act”

https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=N0090031

Article 42
Foreigners to be employed as foreign language teachers as specified in Article 46.1.4 in the Act shall have the following qualifications, and their weekly working hours in teaching-related work shall be no less than 14 (fourteen) hours:

  1. Be 20 (twenty) years old or above.
  2. Be graduated from colleges or above.
  3. The language to be taught by the foreign teacher is the official language used in the country specified in the passport of the teacher.
    The foreigners mentioned in the preceding Paragraph shall have qualification certificates for language teaching if they have not obtained bachelor‘s degrees.
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