I’m seeing in another forum that team is plural in England as in: Man U are the best team in EFL.
I’m seeing the evidence here (4th paragraph): soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story … ed?cc=4716
I’d use: Man U is the best team in EFL.
Whaddya think? 
:s :s
[quote]Two good examples of collective nouns are “team” and “government,” which are both words referring to groups of (usually) people. Both “team” and “government” are count nouns. (Consider: “one team,” “two teams,” “most teams”; “one government,” “two governments,” “many governments”). However, confusion often stems from the fact that plural verb forms are often used in British English with the singular forms of these count nouns (for example: “The team have finished the project”). Conversely, in the English language as a whole, singular verb forms can often be used with nouns ending in “-s” that were once considered plural (for example: “Physics is my favorite academic subject”). This apparent “number mismatch” is actually a quite natural and logical feature of human language, and its mechanism is a subtle metonymic shift in the thoughts underlying the words.
In British English, it is generally accepted that collective nouns can take either singular or plural verb forms depending on the context and the metonymic shift that it implies. For example, “the team is in the dressing room” (formal agreement) refers to the team as an ensemble, whilst “the team are fighting among themselves” (notional agreement) refers to the team as individuals. This is also British English practice with names of countries and cities in sports contexts; for example, “Germany have won the competition,” “Madrid have lost three consecutive matches,” etc. In American English, collective nouns almost invariably take singular verb forms (formal agreement). In cases where a metonymic shift would be otherwise revealed nearby, the whole sentence may be recast to avoid the metonymy. (For example, “the team are fighting among themselves” may become “the team members are fighting among themselves” or simply “the team is fighting.”) See American and British English differences - Formal and notional agreement.
A good example of such a metonymic shift in the singular-to-plural direction (which, generally speaking, only occurs in British English) is the following sentence: “The team have finished the project.” In that sentence, the underlying thought is of the individual members of the team working together to finish the project. Their accomplishment is collective, and the emphasis is not on their individual identities, yet they are at the same time still discrete individuals; the word choice “team have” manages to convey both their collective and discrete identities simultaneously.[/quote]
Would British teachers here teach in such a way though?
Ummm…can anyone answer my last question without going oblivion?
Hahha, :bravo: fair enough - YES, I have heard British teachers use this form.
The only time that I heard (actually, saw in a sub-title) “The Data is correct” was when I was watching Star Trek.
[quote=“PigBloodCake”]
Wait…so why some folks use “The data is correct” when ‘data’ is the plural form of ‘datum’? :s :s :s[/quote]
This comes up a lot in academic editing. Turns out data is plural, and datum is singular. It feels incredibly awkward though, doesn’t it? Don’t even get me started on “researches” as a plural noun…
[quote=“merge”][quote=“PigBloodCake”]
Wait…so why some folks use “The data is correct” when ‘data’ is the plural form of ‘datum’? :s :s :s[/quote]
This comes up a lot in academic editing. Turns out data is plural, and datum is singular. It feels incredibly awkward though, doesn’t it? Don’t even get me started on “researches” as a plural noun…[/quote]
That’s like forums vs fora. The majority has decided that we/they don’t care what those latins say, we’re going to keep it simple. Data is, data points may be.
Team is like staff. It can refer to an entity or to the individuals en-masse, as an abbreviation of “team members”. Generally, it’s the latter case, and therefore I would use “are” most of the time.
My team is bigger than yours: I have more people in my time than you.
My team are bigger than yours: the people in my team are bigger than the people in your team.
Are there others? Clique? Cabinet?
The Cabinet were divided by the Prime Minister’s plan.
The Cabinet was divided by the Prime Minister’s plan.
Hmmm. I prefer the latter in this case.
If we was all Londoners then we wou’n’t have this problem, would we?
[quote=“Loretta”]
That’s like forums vs fora. The majority has decided that we/they don’t care what those latins say, we’re going to keep it simple. Data is, data points may be.[/quote]
“forums” and “fora” are alternatives. Both are plural forms of forum.
Data, on the other hand, is simply never singular, Loretta, if that’s what you are implying. That’s right out of order. Data ARE composed of many individual points.
You can say “a data set” if you want to use it in some singular construction.
I’ve never taught here, but in the UK I’d teach team, staff, family etc. as singular. But there is confusion because in some contexts it sounds awkward. I’ve even seen family used as a plural noun in an exam paper.
The OED says: Sentences such as “data was (as well as data were ) collected over a number of years” are now widely accepted in standard English.
The Guardian says: Technically the singular is datum/agendum, but we feel it sounds increasingly hyper-correct, old-fashioned and pompous to say “the data are”. :raspberry: :raspberry:
Man U are the best in the EFL
Man U is the best team in the EFL
Man U and Arsenal are two of the EFL teams …
Simple, easy, no discussion …
The OED says: Sentences such as “data was (as well as data were ) collected over a number of years” are now widely accepted in standard English.
The Guardian says: Technically the singular is datum/agendum, but we feel it sounds increasingly hyper-correct, old-fashioned and pompous to say “the data are”. :raspberry: :raspberry:[/quote]
Perhaps I am a much more specialised user of the term than you.
Data are still plural in my sphere, and that of my clients, colleagues, and peers.
Hyper-correct my arse. What’s wrong with simply being ‘correct’, Mr fuckin hoi poloi Guardian?
The OED says: Sentences such as “data was (as well as data were ) collected over a number of years” are now widely accepted in standard English.
The Guardian says: Technically the singular is datum/agendum, but we feel it sounds increasingly hyper-correct, old-fashioned and pompous to say “the data are”. :raspberry: :raspberry:[/quote]
Perhaps I am a much more specialised user of the term than you.
Data are still plural in my sphere, and that of my clients, colleagues, and peers.
Hyper-correct my arse. What’s wrong with simply being ‘correct’, Mr fuckin hoi poloi Guardian?[/quote]
Popular albeit incorrect usage determines what is right and wrong. English has no master.
The OED says: Sentences such as “data was (as well as data were ) collected over a number of years” are now widely accepted in standard English.
The Guardian says: Technically the singular is datum/agendum, but we feel it sounds increasingly hyper-correct, old-fashioned and pompous to say “the data are”. :raspberry: :raspberry:[/quote]
Perhaps I am a much more specialised user of the term than you.
Data are still plural in my sphere, and that of my clients, colleagues, and peers.
Hyper-correct my arse. What’s wrong with simply being ‘correct’, Mr fuckin hoi poloi Guardian?[/quote]
Popular albeit incorrect usage determines what is right and wrong. English has no master.[/quote]
English (hopefully) will continue to have no master. English will possibly continue to evolve into Global English which means that culture-free and country-free (global user) consensus will actually prevail in the long term.
As for the phrase “hyper-correct”, I think that it is a far more acceptable term to replace the hurling and flinging about of the unacceptable “Grammar Nazi” phrase.
I really hope not. Because the average global user types fluent trailer trash, Chinglish or some other mangled version of the language on an internet gaming forum.
I really hope not. Because the average global user types fluent trailer trash, Chinglish or some other mangled version of the language on an internet gaming forum.[/quote]
OK, no argument in general … but I do not use gaming forums as a benchmark for assessing (any) language ability.
If for no other reason, you have given a good justification to continue your endeavors as an English teacher!
I really hope not. Because the average global user types fluent trailer trash, Chinglish or some other mangled version of the language on an internet gaming forum.[/quote]
I don’t think it’ll go that far, but data as singular is used by many educated native speakers of the language. I’m not educated but I also use data as singular.
There’s no I in team.