Terrorists in New Zealand? Bullshit!

Read about this in the paper:

taipeitimes.com/News/world/a … 2003383411

Police arrested 17 “terrorists”. It’s bullshit. Charging them with firearms possession at the moment bu throwing around rumours of napalm guns, terrorist training camps, molotov cocktails etc. Now there might be the slightest bit of truth to the charges laid against SOME of these people, but other were arrested from unrelated groups in different parts of the country.

stuff.co.nz/4238835a25364.html

I know one of these people. She’s my brother’s girlfriend. I’ve met her. She’s a lovely young woman who’s commited to environmental and pacifist causes, and also happens to be Maori. She is completely against violence and would have nothing to do with guns. Police have concocted a complete bullshit story because these four are connected with an activist centre (a sort of activist resource centre) in Wellington and are then connecting that centre to others and bullshitting about some sort of conspiracy. There were no firearms found in Wellington.

Just fucking incredible that this sort of bullshit can happen in NZ. If the public buys it, my faith in my home country is gone.

The government is trying to passsome new anti-terrorism legislature later this year. I’m sure a lot of NZers wonder if we really need anti-terrorism laws in NZ. But just in time they’ve found some terrorists. Coincidence?

Brian

There’s a whole bunch of others caught up in this. In particular is Tame Iti, who you could hardly call a peaceful activist. I am sure the police have just cast a wide net at this point and those who are peaceful will be released. In fact, I’d say all of them will be released.

stuff.co.nz/4240093a25364.html

[quote]Tame Iti was preparing to declare an IRA-style war on New Zealand in a bid to establish his long-standing dream of an independent Tuhoe nation, according to police documents.

A source close to The Dominion Post said the documents disclosed by police to legal parties for the accused showed police had been monitoring Iti’s movements for 18 months, videoing and photographing his Urewera commando training camps and intercepting text messages sent by Iti to his co-conspirators.

Iti christened the group “Rama”, the Maori word for enlightenment, and is alleged to have stated three months ago that he had stopped all his other activities in order to “make war on New Zealand”.

The source described the movement as “comical” and “amateurish”, with the group purchasing military uniforms from an Auckland army surplus store.

Numbering about 20, the participants were predominantly based in Auckland. Many were in their late teens, the youngest a 15-year-old girl.

During the training camps members were required to wear balaclavas in order to hide their identities from each other, and many of their methods were based on a “green book IRA manual”.

It is understood several of the group are former New Zealand Army soldiers, some of whom fought in the Vietnam War.

Iti is alleged to have purchased shotgun ammunition from an Auckland gun shop and tried to obtain grenade launchers.

It is not clear from the documents whether he succeeded.

But a document does suggest the arms dealer was willing to obtain grenade launchers.

No mention of targets is made in the documents, but it is believed the only explosives to which the group had access were Molotov cocktails.

The group was allegedly trained in ambushes and “IRA-style attacks”, with a “key camp” being held in the Ureweras last November.

Much of the police evidence is based on text messages sent between group members.

The police documents show the group had been under continuous electronic and visual surveillance.

No mention is made in the documents of which government intelligence units were involved.

Nine of the people arrested and charged after Monday’s raids remain in custody following court appearances yesterday.

Jamie Beattie Lockett, 46, unemployed, of Takanini, appeared in Auckland District Court yesterday morning, and was initially granted bail.

The Crown appealed against this decision and Lockett’s bail was revoked by a High Court judge later in the evening.

The Crown said police had intercepted text messages sent by Lockett, saying he was intending to launch a war on New Zealand.

“I’m training up to be a vicious, dangerous commando,” one message said; another text stated “white men are going to die in this country”.

Lockett, who said he was a friend of Iti, did not apply for name suppression.

He said he was not involved in any illegal activity: “I have never, ever, transported a gun or ammunition in any vehicle in New Zealand. I’m anti-ammunition and guns.” He dismissed police evidence against him as “lies, weak and uninvestigated”.

Four other men and a woman also appeared in Auckland District Court on firearms charges, including possession of a military-style semi-automatic weapon, an automatic rifle, Molotov cocktails and a rifle.

All five, aged between 18 and 58, successfully sought name suppression and have been remanded in custody till their next court appearance on Friday.

Iti is to appear in Rotorua District Court this morning to find out whether his application for bail has been successful.

Iti and a woman, who was granted name suppression, appeared in court yesterday charged with firearms offences.

The woman has been remanded in custody till October 29.

A man, 53, was remanded in custody in Palmerston North after appearing in court on two charges of unlawful possession of a firearm. [/quote]

You sure about that? Did you know they’ve all been denied bail?

Do you think it’s OK for the police to arrest peaceful activists under the Terrorism Suppression Act and then release them later if they’re innocent?

I don’t know much about Tama Ite, but he’s not a terrorist is he? And the guys in Wellington (and other parts of the country) have nothing to do with him (i mean they might ahve attended some fo the same conferences etc - but nothing meaningful). And these stories about terrorist trainign camps, naplam bombs etc are obvious bullshit. Even the mainstream media in NZ (I’ve been watching some TV3 reports and stuff) pretty well say as much.

I’m just horriffied at the thought that NZ might start going the way of the US and others into paranoid suppression of freedom in the name of the bogeyman terrorism. I sincerely hope that NZers are to smart for that.

Brian

You sure about that? Did you know they’ve all been denied bail?

Do you think it’s OK for the police to arrest peaceful activists under the Terrorism Suppression Act and then release them later if they’re innocent?

I don’t know much about Tama Ite, but he’s not a terrorist is he? And the guys in Wellington (and other parts of the country) have nothing to do with him (I mean they might ahve attended some fo the same conferences etc - but nothing meaningful). And these stories about terrorist trainign camps, naplam bombs etc are obvious bullshit. Even the mainstream media in NZ (I’ve been watching some TV3 reports and stuff) pretty well say as much.

I’m just horriffied at the thought that NZ might start going the way of the US and others into paranoid suppression of freedom in the name of the bogeyman terrorism. I sincerely hope that NZers are to smart for that.

Brian[/quote]
I hear where you are coming from, and obviously I’m not privy to first/second hand info like you are. However, personally, I think Tame Iti is an idiot. For years he’s championed a desired to ‘take out the whites’. IIRC he’s been in the courts numerous times for assault. In particular he whacked a journalist with a Taiaha, and also discharged a shotgun at a flag during a public meeting - there’s probably more. Sure, he’s probably just trying to make a point, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he was trying to form some kind of IRA style organization in NZ. If I spotted him running a training camp, I’d take it seriously.
I must admit I’m mystified why ‘peaceful’ activists have been caught up in this.

Is there no little island with some peace loving resolve your issues through neogotiation Moriari left we can send this bunch?

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Is there no little island with some peace loving resolve your issues through neogotiation Moriari left we can send this bunch?

HG[/quote]
yeah, the west island.

:laughing:

I erhm, actually never heard that one before and sort of had to think about it a bit while making crazy hand gestures at the desk . . that way would be . . . no, and left would be . . .

:blush:

HG

Terrorism is a myth perpetuated by “them”. if there is terrorism in your country, you can be sure that your government did ithat itself. Soon you will be wearing a microchip in your forehead connected to a GPS system monitored by the secret leaders of the New World Order. Don;t believe the lies about terrorism!

There may be a little truth in it. Whatever eventually emerges though I’m convinced the police have overreacted and been needlessly heavy-handed. I can’t see the justification for dressing up in SWAT team gear (dark goggles and everything) and sweeping through a whole rural community. Couldn’t they have got the people they were after with less drama and intimidation?

Tame Iti is an idiot, but occasional law breaking antics don’t make him a dangerous terrorist.

On the other hand, I guess the IRA used to blow up letter boxes and be seen as a bit of a joke before they progressed to bombing pubs. You never know where these things can lead. But still, I doubt there is going to be enough substance to justify the police reaction.

I think it’s the ‘space camps’ that Tame Iti is running that should be of more concern…

I also know several of the people involved, and have been (peacefully) involved in a range of political causes in NZ.

There may indeed be a few nutters involved - Jamie Locket for example, though I’ve never met him - but the law should be able to deal with these people as it is. Calling them terrorists is a worrying step. The fact that they communicated by emails and text messages shows they had neither the skills - if indeed the desire - to beciome a serious threat to national security.

It may be that other social activists attended a few of their “camps”; apparently invitations went out wide and a few naive people attended. Some loonys might have even brought guns to them. But that doesn’t make ordinary, law-abiding activists there criminals, let alone terrorists.

The NZ government has, quietly, been using house raids and confiscation of lawfully owned political paraphinalia to close down peaceful dissent which it doesn’t want, which is almost every type. Recall:

  1. Aziz Chowdrey / David Small and the SIS / Govt back in 96, before APEC.
  2. Animal rights protestors in 2003. Computers, dairies, other documents, banners, leaflets, posters, drink bottles all taken and held for months, without them being used in any trial. The only “crimes” were peaceful protests. It took tens of thousands of dollars to uphold the right to protest in the High Court.
  3. Anti-war activists soon had the same.
  4. Now Maori soverignty and environmental activists, complete with black-clad armed officers.

I can’t think of any social movements who have not had their houses raided as “terrorists”. These sorts of raids rarely happen in the US, or any other deomcracy, as far as I can see.

Call me an extremist, but I fear NZ is heading down a road from what was once seen as one of the worlds best democracies, to a country without basic democratic freedoms at all. And since we’re so small, with no consititution and little media coverage, its not an impossibility. It’s more believeable when both major parties supported the new terrorism suppresssion laws and recent “terrorist” raids.

I’m just glad I now live in a real free, democratic ‘country’.

Jesse

Too right Jesse.

I just watched the police dealing with protesters at the Labour Party Conference on Saturday. A Labour Party guy smacked a couple of protesters (hard) with a megaphone, and the police watched him walk away. Later the muscled in on the protest line and arrested protesters, including a 17 year old Maori doing a haka for ‘spitting’ (you try doing a good haka without some spittle escaping).

Most of the activists are still in prison without bail, but name supression has been lifted for most of them. My brother’s gf, Emily is having a bad time in prison. Her twin brothers are there too. There seems to be no reason to deny them bail, but the judges are waiting to see if terrorism charges are allowed. They seem to be saying that the fact of terrorism charges being laid is enough to deny bail on its own. They are definitely not being treated as innocent until proven guilty.

It’s clear that most of the ‘activists’ being charged and treated as terrorists are campaigners for the environment, peace and Maori rights. They are peaceful young idealists. They are now looking at between one and two years in prison before their trials are finished.

Worryingly most of them will likely be tried on sperate firearms and terrorism charges. Conveniently for the police and the government, the legal principle that the results of one trial not predjudice another means that the details of the ‘evidence’ will remain kept from the public for a year or two until both trials are complete. By that time the public will have forgotten and not care. Sadly it seems that a large number don’t care already. If you are a NZer you should. This isour freedoms and civil/legal rights under attack. This is the start of something dark and ugly.

Brian

Yoiks! What the hell is going on down there? Sounds like absolute madness. Mind you, you’d have to think running a military training camp in this day and age would court some degree of disaster.

HG

PNACofascism is popping up in the oddest places these days. I’m beginning to wonder whether there isn’t some sort of connection with global warming. Isn’t New Zealand a code red breach site in the ozone layer?

SOME of the accused supposedly ATTENDED wilderness survival camps in the bush where there may have been firearms. I attended wilderness survival camps in the bush and shot guns myself when I was young. They called us boy scouts back then though, not terrorists.

I say there MAY have been firearms, because no firearms were actually discovered in the raids in Wellington. Instead those arrested were charged with ‘group possession’ of firearms, on a number of ocassions, several months ago. :loco:

Brian

[quote=“Truant”]I think it’s the ‘space camps’ that Tame Iti is running that should be of more concern…
[/quote]

Look theres two islands down there for NZ… there’s plenty of room for unimportant activitists. They aren’t going to turn up with 30 farmers and overthrow the country are they? I thought that only happened in Cuba.

And for HGC

This is the west island part… Not really designed for kiwis though… too hot and rugged.

Also up there in space you can’t hear any choking

The criminal marsupial wrote: [quote]Also up there in space you can’t hear any choking [/quote]

:laughing: :laughing: :notworthy: Credit were credit is due - that is damn funny!

What doesn’t kill you, makes you drink more. Bring on the 2011 Haka World Cup! :yay:

A bit more has come out of these raids. Here are some of the transcripts from surveillance.
What would you suggest the police do based on this information? Nothing?

[quote]Suspect tells another it would be good to kill Pakeha to get trainees used to killing. Also suggests making their own tracer ammunition and using tungsten projectiles to go through a “cop vest” and through “his f… mate”.
Bug in vehicle, recorded April 6, 2007.

“Get someone to assassinate the prime minister, the new one, next year’s one. Just been in office five days, bang … Yeah. John Key … just drop a bomb … Just wait till he visits somewhere and just blow them … They won’t even find you.”
Two suspects in bugged vehicle, August 17, 2007.

“They want to start blowing shit up. You know, they want to blow up power plants, gas plants, Telecom, petrol f… places and shit like that.”
Two suspects in bugged vehicle, June 23, 2007.

“You know like the IRA in England … it’s gonna happen here … I’m ready to die, mate. I’m gonna hurt this country, I’ve had a gutsful … I wanna leave this planet making sure that I’ve done a f… huge amount of harm to this country.”
Suspect recorded on bugged phone, May 26, 2006.

“It’d have to be a, some sort of f…, sudden f…, because what it’ll do, it’ll come down on the thinking of the people, they’ll think it’s al Qaeda … It’s gotta be sudden and it’s gotta be brutal.”
Other suspect says: “Don’t piss around with cities or doing the bush thing … just go to Parliament.”
Two suspects in bugged vehicle, August 17, 2007.

“I heard you talking about the napalm shit.”
Response from unknown man: “I’ll make some and bring some next time round, show everyone how to make it.”
Conversation in bugged vehicle, September 16, 2007.

“No, I’m teaming up with the Maoris, we have to … I’ll come and see ya, I can’t f… take the white man on without the c…s … I’m declaring war on this country.”
Bugged cellphone, May 22, 2007.

“Tuhoe wouldn’t have popular support for a bombing campaign in New Zealand.”
Reply: “It would in Tuhoe though … What about if we did a bombing campaign that blew up Waihopai spy base, power dams, gas facilities, TV stations and radios … It’s a strategy that’s gonna be f… urban warfare. We are training in the wrong place.”
First speaker: “What’s going to be the strategy?”
Reply: “Strategy will divide, will divide Aotearoa … extreme violence and extreme f… actions too.”
Two suspects in bugged vehicle, June 23, 2007.

“I cut down all of my work, right down. Ah, I’m only focusing to go to war.”
Bugged suspect, April 26, 2007.

“There’s nothing in this country can stop you once you got it, you can kill anybody you want. They’ll never be able to find you.”
Suspect talking in bugged vehicle about asking for sniper’s rifle, August 16, 2007.

“Wait till bullets start going through people, that’s f… horrible … Wait till your mate’s head gets blown off because someone dobbed us in and we get f… shot at.”
Suspect in bugged sleeping room, June 23, 2007.

“There’s about 10 manuals … There’s the al Qaeda manual and that’s f… good. That’s right up to date.”
Later another suspect says: “That last exercise was a bit freaky for me, having a gun in my back.”
Response: “High level of secrecy, we needed, you know, we need to test people.”
Bugged training camp room, June 23, 2007.

Suspect X tells Suspect Y he is tired of playing games. Suspect Y says they need good planning so they don’t die on the first day. Both worry about the enemy within their ranks and talk about needing 20 small squads, such as in Iraq, carrying out their own missions.
Bugged vehicle, April 4, 2007. [/quote]

stuff.co.nz/4272185a25364.html

Another interesting point is that so far the raids have been touted as “Anti Maori” and “Anti Tuhoe”, when actually, it’s been reported that:

stuff.co.nz/4272131a10.html

So having a Anti “Anti Maori” Hikoi is one thing, but who is protesting for the rest? Or is that irrelevant?

Bunch of fuckwits. Lock them up and throw away the key. Alternatively, let them out, track them down and quietly and slowly knock them all off.

HG