The 1619 Project

You really seem to have a hard time following the plot.

I don’t wake up in the morning being reminded about the Holocaust. I haven’t been taught that everything that hasn’t worked out in my life is a result of anti-Semitism. I know there are people in this world who, if they knew I was Jewish, would discriminate against me or, in some places, attempt to do me harm. But I haven’t been indoctrinated into believing that I can’t be happy, get ahead, etc. because of those people and their issues.

No, like I’ve said repeatedly, it would be great if African American history didn’t start at slavery, because that’s not where it began. And it shouldn’t be crafted to fit a political, ideological narrative that is both inaccurate and unreasonably dark.

But isn’t that where African American history starts?

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What does this have to do with the 1619 project? These are your own subjective thoughs on the holocaust and your Jewish identity.

Tautology, circular logic. You are assuming ideology on the part of the 1619 scholars, without basis. That is only your thinking. And nice word choice at the end.

That’s about enough false equivalence for me for now. It would be nice if you would address the actual project, and not your own subjective interpretation of it.

The slaves who were brought over to the Americas were West African. The knowledge and culture that they brought over didn’t appear out of nowhere, and the many contributions of slaves to American culture then and now trace their roots to West Africa.

Right I get that and not to get pinickerty, but prior to being in America, it’s not African American history but African history.

Which is to say it is still history that relates to African Americans, but it is not longer history that relates to America.

The context of the project seems to be the 400th anniversary of a particular slave ship that arrived in the US and what happened since then. I’m going to read though the project before reaching any conclusions on what it’s all about and will probably take some time.

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I had to read this several times to figure out what you were referring to. The fact that you would even read something into the word “dark” that is so out of context and then raise it in a comment speaks volumes about your thinking.

That’s a wrap for me on this one.

The problem is that when you separate the two and pretend they’re really separate, you not only lose historical context that is important, you create the grounds for a political and ideologically driven narrative of history that is historically inaccurate.

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Same generic critique over and over again. Like other posters have said, why don’t you actually read the documents over carefully first. It is clear you have not read them and are formulating opinions about it. Your mind is made up. No bueno.

Regards, I’m out too.

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This can work both ways

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Both sides? The other side? There aren’t 2 ways here. There are a lot of ways and a lot of interpretations.

I would argue that African history does relate to American history, depending on what and how it is taught. I wonder, do US schools teach European history?

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I mean, it seems to have been an unproductive conversation on both ends (yours and his). Perhaps it is true that his mind is made up and that is no bueno, but can it not be somewhat true the other way as well?

I think you’re not understanding. This is supplemental material for american history; presumably american kids, who this is aimed at, receive additional context in the rest of their american history class and also have world history, which provides additional context.

Does that help you out with this at all? Or do you still want this to be somehow all encompassing?

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My mind is only made up that the 1619 project is a project about US History that places African American history front and center, and focuses on highlighting their accomplishments. This is paraphrasing from the NY times text directly.

Not so much in American History class.

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Then you haven’t even read the introduction.

It is not a year that most Americans know as a notable date in our country’s history. Those who do are at most a tiny fraction of those who can tell you that 1776 is the year of our nation’s birth. What if, however, we were to tell you that this fact, which is taught in our schools and unanimously celebrated every Fourth of July, is wrong, and that the country’s true birth date, the moment that its defining contradictions first came into the world, was in late August of 1619? Though the exact date has been lost to history (it has come to be observed on Aug. 20), that was when a ship arrived at Point Comfort in the British colony of Virginia, bearing a cargo of 20 to 30 enslaved Africans. Their arrival inaugurated a barbaric system of chattel slavery that would last for the next 250 years. This is sometimes referred to as the country’s original sin, but it is more than that: It is the country’s very origin.

Out of slavery — and the anti-black racism it required — grew nearly everything that has truly made America exceptional: its eco-nomic might, its industrial power, its electoral system, diet and popular music, the inequities of its public health and education, its astonishing penchant for violence, its income inequality, the exam-ple it sets for the world as a land of freedom and equality, its slang, its legal system and the endemic racial fears and hatreds that continue to plague it to this day. The seeds of all that were planted long before our official birth date, in 1776, when the men known as our founders formally declared independence from Britain.

The goal of The 1619 Project, a major initiative from The New York Times that this issue of the magazine inaugurates, is to reframe American history by considering what it would mean to regard 1619 as our nation’s birth year. Doing so requires us to place the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of the story we tell ourselves about who we are as a country.

Perhaps you need some persuading. The issue contains essays on different aspects of contemporary American life, from mass incarceration to rush-hour traffic, that have their roots in slavery and its aftermath. Each essay takes up a modern phenomenon, familiar to all, and reveals its history. The first, by the staff writer Nikole Hannah- Jones (from whose mind this project sprang), provides the intellectual framework for the project and can be read as an introduction.

Alongside the essays, you will find 17 literary works that bring to life key moments in African-American history. These works are all original compositions by contemporary black writers who were asked to choose events on a timeline of the past 400 years. The poetry and fiction they created is arranged chronologically through-out the issue, and each work is introduced by the history to which the author is responding.

A word of warning: There is gruesome material in these pages, material that readers will find disturbing. That is, unfortunately, as it must be. American history cannot be told truthfully without a clear vision of how inhuman and immoral the treatment of black Americans has been. By acknowledging this shameful history, by trying hard to understand its powerful influence on the present, perhaps we can prepare ourselves for a more just future.

That is the hope of this project.

And these are the words of the project’s creator:

Our founding ideals of liberty and equality were false when they were written. Black Americans fought to make them true. Without this struggle, America would have no democracy at all.

From the Times, once again:

“It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative.”

OK, so there might be 2 ways on some of the other stuff you two were discussing. It feels like you two are talking past each other. It is easy for us to get adversarial, but not helpful :slight_smile:

Also somewhat ironic that this project was funded by and contains a promotion for Robert F. Smith’s Fund II Foundation.

Robert F. Smith has the dubious distinction of being involved in the largest ever tax fraud case filed against an individual. He was accused of failing to pay $200 million in taxes as part of business dealings he knew were designed to help another billionaire avoid taxes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/09/smith-brockman-tax-evasion/

This is true. What’s your objection to this? If not TRUE with a capital T, at least it’s certainly a valid hypothesis that deserves careful consideration. Is it not?