The 1619 Project

:roll_eyes:

For example, this assumes only one type of democracy (a value proposition where truth becomes slippery). Greek democracy was flawed in many ways, but was it not democracy?

Looks like you havenā€™t read what you quotedā€¦

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There are plenty of choice segments you ignore:

Their arrival inaugurated a barbaric system of chattel slavery that would last for the next 250 years. This is sometimes referred to as the countryā€™s original sin, but it is more than that: It is the countryā€™s very origin.

Out of slavery ā€” and the anti-black racism it required ā€” grew nearly everything that has truly made America exceptional: its eco-nomic might, its industrial power, its electoral system, diet and popular music, the inequities of its public health and education, its astonishing penchant for violence, its income inequality, the exam-ple it sets for the world as a land of freedom and equality, its slang, its legal system and the endemic racial fears and hatreds that continue to plague it to this day.

The issue contains essays on different aspects of contemporary American life, from mass incarceration to rush-hour traffic, that have their roots in slavery and its aftermath.

A word of warning: There is gruesome material in these pages, material that readers will find disturbing. That is, unfortunately, as it must be. American history cannot be told truthfully without a clear vision of how inhuman and immoral the treatment of black Americans has been.

Free black people posed a danger to the countryā€™s idea of itself as exceptional; we held up the mirror in which the nation preferred not to peer. And so the inhumanity visited on black people by every generation of white America justified the inhumanity of the past.

Just as white Americans feared, World War II ignited what became black Americansā€™ second sustained effort to make democracy real.

We were told once, by virtue of our bondage, that we could never be American. But it was by virtue of our bondage that we became the most American of all.

In order to understand the brutality of American capitalism, you have to start on the plantation.

It is the culture of acquiring wealth without work, growing at all costs and abusing the powerless. It is the culture that brought us the Panic of 1837, the stock-market crash of 1929 and the recession of 2008. It is the culture that has produced staggering inequality and undignified working conditions. If today America promotes a particular kind of low-road capitalism ā€” a union-busting capitalism of poverty wages, gig jobs and normalized insecurity; a winner-take-all capitalism of stunning disparities not only permitting but awarding financial rule-bending; a racist capitalism that ignores the fact that slavery didnā€™t just deny black freedom but built white fortunes, originating the black-white wealth gap that annually grows wider ā€” one reason is that American capitalism was founded on the lowest road there is.

Like I said, itā€™s a dark narrative of American history that is clearly driven by a political and ideological agenda.

The last gem I quoted is particularly ironic given that this was funded by and contains an ad for a charitable endeavor run by one of the biggest tax cheats in American history. Talk about low roads.

Iā€™d suggest that itā€™s possible to have an honest telling of Americaā€™s history that doesnā€™t gloss over the horrific treatment of not only African Americans but Native Americans, the Chinese, the Irish, women, etc. without pretending that the country is the work of satan.

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Why is it ironic that a tax cheat has supported this? Youā€™ve mentioned it a couple times, like itā€™s importantā€¦ Explain.

If you actually read the contents as you claim to, youā€™d understand. :wink:

My opinion, having only read what you posted, is that it was a dark time in American history and a lot of what you have excerpted here seems to me to be accurate and worth including in history class. Yes, it is driven by a political agenda, everything is. A political agenda that holds a mirror up to slavery is a good thing. For me the problem is the ideology, which inevitably hobbles SJW causes regardless of their merits. One group of people is taking it upon themselves to redefine what democracy is and the rest of us donā€™t get a say? Sounds kinda undemocraticā€¦

Would it be a good idea to also teach African history and install a sense of culture in African Americans so that they donā€™t learn to be victims? Probably.

Do I think modern slavery exists and is perpetuated by the very social justice warriors that scream white people are bad. Absolutely.

Youā€™ve listed a bunch of quotes, then simply conclude (once again) with your own assumptionā€“that this ā€˜darkā€™ [sic] narrative of American history is driven by a political and ideological agenda.

You have not actually explained WHY these quotes prove that. Whatsoever. This might be a more constructive and useful analysis if you did that.

If only readers would take as much time to consider these ideas as they did trying to find not actually that ironic ironies.

False choice all are possible

Your own words only, hyperbole.

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If you wanted to, you could paint all of human history as dark times.

I think itā€™s possible to look at history through a realistic lens that acknowledges the tragic parts of our existence without turning our entire existence into a tragedy.

The 1619 Project falls far short of this.

If you read more, youā€™ll see that the project paints a narrative in which all of the good things about America were built on the back of African-Americans and slavery. Even other groups that fought for their rights, such as women and Native Americans, really owe everything to African-Americans.

While there is no doubt that there is a relationship between freedom and justice movements, the narrative created is patently biased and driven by a very clear ideological and political agenda.

This project promotes an antagonistic, isolationist narrative that crudely assigns blame and takes credit on the basis of race, and not even in a coherent way. I mean, even the implied notion that thereā€™s a homogeneous ā€œwhite Americaā€ is an absurd oversimplification. There are tons of whites in America whose ancestors came to the US in the last 100 years, who never owned slaves, and who in many cases were themselves fleeing from persecution.

No group is spared. Just look at what is written about Asian-Americans:

It is a truly American irony that some Asian-Americans, among the groups able to immigrate to the United States because of the black civil rights struggle, are now suing universities to end programs designed to help the descendants of the enslaved.

Apparently the first waves of ethnic Chinese immigration into the US didnā€™t happen!

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Another place where I think we would agree. In Canada it has become very trendy for business/schools/government to begin anything with an acknowledgement that we are on unceded indigenous territory. And I always think, how do we know they didnā€™t take it from someone else?! It is trendy to dump on the English Empire, but how many times were those islands invaded? My ancestors didnā€™t come here from Ireland because Ireland was awesome for them. How can some groups see so clearly in black and white who is responsible for what injustices over what specific amount of time? This is ridiculous.

Yes. Not easy, but possible

I believe you, because I am familiar with the NYT and similar Canadian curriculum documents (not that the teased curricular documents have made an appearance, ahem)

No thanks, I believe you

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In August of 1619, a ship appeared on this horizon, near Point Comfort,
a coastal port in the British colony of Virginia. It carried more than
20 enslaved Africans, who were sold to the colonists. America was
not yet America, but this was the moment it began. No aspect of
the country that would be formed here has been untouched by the 250
years of slavery that followed. On the 400th anniversary of this fateful
moment, it is finally time to tell our story truthfully.

I already have to question whether itā€™s worth it for to read this, because it is not truthful. Iā€™d call it a lie. That was not ā€œthe moment it beganā€. One aspect of its beginning and a very important one, yes. But their framing is clearly ideological. Well, it is the NYT so unsurprising. I donā€™t waste my time reading that these days either. Maybe Iā€™ll try to come back to this again, I was thinking now I really have to read this thing to comment intelligently on it, but, I donā€™t know. Thereā€™s a lot of things I could be reading.

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Aside from the obvious ideological bias, I see another rather large potential problem with the project. If the provocative takes on history the project presents were used as a starting point for honest, open discussion about the legacy of slavery, that would be one thing. But anyone who thinks the material here wonā€™t be used as basis for classroom struggle sessions against students who question the narrative is being naive.

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https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/61820065/the-night-is-dark-and-full-of-errors.jpg

So what does the 1619 Project want from white people now? Money? An apology for slavery?

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:man_shrugging:

Depends on your political agenda? I think they mean well, but execute poorly.

Generally, I like Hanlonā€™s razor but when it comes to extreme ideologues, itā€™s dangerous to attribute to stupidity that which is more adequately explained by malice.

I donā€™t think anyone could write even a fraction of the stuff in this ā€œprojectā€ and not know exactly what they were doing.

Hm, this is familiar but I should remember it. It is a good rule, though at what point does gross stupidity become malicious?

Academically I have met many true believers* (students, professors, schools, government), there were a cynical few milking it

*in fairness, i find the basic idea of social justice very easy to defend

If the 1619 Project is just some loopy historical revisionism and not a setup for cash or perks then itā€™s a lot of effort for not much payback.

Canā€™t it be both, and also a genuine effort at positive change? When you get a lot of different people involved, there are a lot of different agendasā€¦

I have an ex who makes over $100,000 USD/year teaching some of this stuff. Sheā€™s not teaching American Misogyny or Latinx Sexual Dissidence and Guerrilla Translation, but thereā€™s a lot of overlap with all the social sciences these days because thatā€™s the direction the curriculum is going.

Thereā€™s also plenty of money in grants, fellowships, etc. Not so much to make people wealthy, but enough to have a comfortable life, provide free travel around the world for conferences and workshops, etc.