The Bodhi Way (三乘菩提)

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
921

[quote=“iwonder”]Dear fellow readers, the above mentioned sure is a scaring fact, can easily find more info. Through web. Make sure to stay away from immoral, wicked Tantrism.,
Tibetan religion is not Buddhism, they just use Buddhism name in order to collect people to fall to their ultimate Rakshasa rim.[/quote]

You should study reasoning and logic, you cannot go around just babbling whatever nonsense comes to mind just because you believe it to be the case. That is not a civilized discussion, you are just tantruming.

No, the monk did not develop anything related to iron fists. They do not practice martial arts.

“Rakshasa rim leader is Padmasambhava”

Where did you hear of such an idea?

922

[quote=“triceratopses”]
“Rakshasa rim leader is Padmasambhava” Where did you hear of such an idea?[/quote]

What’s the use to quote you any reference? Those I’ve provided previously you simply could not face it.
Those clear evidences “Buddhism” provided as your request, you rudely brushed it off. Although according to your later on posts content, you clearly knew long ago for certain that Dalai Lama and his followers are involved in sexual activities. Then why should you even ask “Buddhism” for evidence to begin with?

It’s so clear that you either yakking or threatening when things doesn’t go your way.
Why should you even surprise at the fact that Padmasambhava is the king of his Rakshasa rim? After all, the studying of Tibetan Tantrism founder in 8th century, is a fundamental request for it’s followers.

923

You seem to have a severe inability of thinking clearly and reasoning. Just because you can quote someone saying “Buddhist tantra is not really buddhism” this doesn’t mean that this is something meaningful that should be taken seriously. Assertions are 100% meaningless without reasoning. Did you notice there is a total absence of reasoning in your quotes?

You say these practitioners are having sex, who cares? Even 'Buddhhism’s own quotes say that these are not sex activities of ignorant people driven by lust and desire:

“Actually, […] the sexual organ is utilized, but the energy movement which is taking place is, in the end, fully controlled. The energy should never be let out. This energy must be controlled and eventually returned to other parts of the body. And here we can see there is a kind of special connection with celibacy.” - Quoted from “The Good Heart,” H.H. the Dalai Lama

“Although I am using this ordinary term, sexual climax, it does not imply the ordinary sexual act. The reference here is to the experience of entering into union with a consort of the opposite sex, by means of which the elements at the crown are melted, and through the power of Meditation the process is also reversed. A prerequisite of such a practice is that you should be able to protect yourself from the fault of seminal emission. According to the explanation of the Kalachakra Tantra in particular, such emission is said to be very damaging to your practice. Therefore, because you should not experience emission even in dreams, the tantras describe different techniques for overcoming this fault.” - The 14th Dalai Lama

And these are not even precise or detailed explanations. As for ‘Buddhism’ i already dismantled his assertions in a previous post. I showed that contrary to his assertion that gelug lineage is not authentic because it accepts consort practice, it is authentic, since consort practice is done by only 1 in 10,000,000 practitioners and it is irrelevant for everyone else. Instead of being something common, as was her assertion, it is utterly rare to the point of being irrelevant. Aside from those rare practitioners, everyone else is practicing standard madhyamaka and studying the tenet systems. You would have to argue that madhyamaka is not authentic in order to establish that gelug is not authentic. You cannot argue that gelug or tibetan buddhism is not authentic because they accept consort practice.

However these days not even theravadins are willing to make such arguments, many now even accept bardo beings and chi (energy winds) that are explained in tantra. Do you really think mental movements do not have subtle physical signatures findable in the body? That is all energy winds and tantra are about, how to use them, instead of only relying on samadhi. (You need both)

There is no such thing as tibetan tantrism and lamaism. The lineages derive directly out of india, they are the exact same lineage, just as tibetan buddhism will eventually find root in the west, it will not become “western buddhism” it is simply a continuation of the lineage. Very many indian yogis wrote amazing commentaries on tantric texts long before tibetans ever heard of buddhism.

924

[quote=“triceratopses”]You should study reasoning and logic, you cannot go around just babbling whatever nonsense comes to mind…
[/quote]

[quote=“triceratopses”]Then you are beyond clear thinking and reasoning…
Unless you are a scholar on the topic there is no real reason why your opinions or what it sounds like to you should be heard by anyone, or why you should say them in the first place.[/quote]

Wow!
What an asocial style of replying to others by starting in this way!
Clearly, this is by far not the Bodhi Way style!

Still, I appreciate everybody’s feedback.
Thank you.

925

This is in response to comments that said “i don’t care what your explanation is, i will never accept your point of view”.

As far as I’m concerned my responses were mild, normally I treat such close-mindedness much more harshly as it so rightly deserves.

Likewise for people who are stupid enough to spout assertions without any reasoning. I can’t believe I’m wasting time talking to people who are trying to prove their position by quoting other people’s assertions eg. Here in this book it says “Tantric buddhism is not buddhism” therefore it logically follows that tantric buddhism is not buddhism.

926

…
Likewise for people who are stupid enough to spout assertions without any reasoning. …[/quote]

Just like some audacious religious leaders and politicans said: Telling a lie, short and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

No one like to be fooled and manipulated espiecially it comes to religions and politics.

Buddhism is about panjra wisdom, how does it come to connected to sexual positions? Is it reasonable to eat nectar which consisted of urine, excrement, bone marrow, semen, and menstrual blood?

There are politicans and religious leaders declaring they are running positions for good of the people in order to serve people. Ironically, some of those so call " serve people" end up richer and living is a luxury life, what kinds of “serve” it is? Making me feel like suffer from sever impairment of understand the meaning of the words.

927

Prajna in the mind will have physical correlations. Even mere samadhi and dhyana has excellent physical results. Orgasm, sneezing, and death, according to mahayana emptiness in general but particularly madhyamaka practitioners, generates the subtlest type of mind which is very useful for advanced meditators to make use of in order to generate emptiness.

As I said before, you can either take trillions of lifetimes to become a buddha by avoiding suffering and trying to reside in emptiness and samadhi as much as possible.

Or you can take the much harder but much quicker path of using suffering itself to generate emptiness. This is very different and radical compared to the other method, where you simply try to avoid suffering as much as possible.

However as I also said, 99.999% of people do not and will not generate a real experience of dhyana let alone emptiness in the life, so for them they are just normal practitioners. In the old days 99.999% of practitioners would not even know about consort practice, since it is supposed to be secret, since it is so utterly irrelevant to most people. They would be as confused about it as you are.

How feces can be nectar is a question of emptiness. There are no findable characteristics on the side of objects. For normal people no it is not reasonable to eat such things, since they are not nectar, they are feces etc and will harm you. A person who experiences emptiness though… that is something completely different. As i said, you transform suffering into realization, and realization cannot ever harm you.

I agree that religious leaders who grow wealthy and seem to show no indication of renunciation nor capacity to explain dharma and instead are gluttonous and have poor minds for dharma, should be severely shunned. I hate most religious leaders and am very skeptical of them. They must REALLY be able to explain things well otherwise they are trash to me.

928

Ho ho ho!
A world of consort fantasies!
The birds and the bees, physical positions and exercises, channel chi and woman’s age are meant for wisdom achievements!

Obviously, language is not the issue, but your knowledge of “prajna.”
“Prajnaparamita” cannot be classified as higher or lower level.

Prajnaparamita is devoid of mundane characteristics as I have reiterated throughout this thread, so there can not be superlative existence.

It’s purely your learning that prajna possess higher or lower level, and still there are more to come about your brilliant writings. (Part 1)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prajnaparamita
Prajñāpāramitā (Sanskrit: प्रज्ञापारमिता) means [color=#0000FF]"the Perfection of (Transcendent) Wisdom[/color]" in Mahāyāna Buddhism.

929

I am sorry, but to me, it seems more enjoying than suffering. You might said male and female relationship is reciprocal. Look at the " those Kulus or maters or whatever in market", the percentage of male and Female, we can easily name many famouse teacher in male, but how many in female? It’s take a while to name it, right?

Buddha said, as long as one is in, they are eventually practice real intercourse in 9 ( or 7 ) lifes.

It’s written in Tantras. People in Trantic all know nectar and consider that are precious stuff.

This is extremly correct!! those who win fame and prosperity by false color should be unveild.

930

Sorry you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. There are coarser and subtler realizations of the 4 arya (noble) truths. There are also many schools who think they’ve realized the highest meaning of prajna when perhaps they have not. This is common knowledge and non-debatable, though you are free to try.

It doesn’t matter what it seems like to you. The topic is written about in great detail, if you want to have a clue what it is rather than the foolish idea that it is just simple enjoyment, you are free to find a qualified teacher and study it.

I’ve studied it, and to me you are completely ignorant to assert that it is just enjoyment of sex. It has very little to do with your idea of sex.

I agree there should be much more women lamas. I think that is changing and that will be happening now.

Yes but you didn’t understand what I said. The tantras are written from the point of view of realization practitioners, not normal people who become sick just by smelling it or thinking to eat it.

It is not difficult or skillful to be a samsaric afflicted person and prefer to eat gourmet pizza instead of feces.

For someone residing in emptiness however, there is no distinction between the 2 there is only purity, and the effects of purity. For them, eating feces is a direct cause of their imminent buddhahood. Of course it seems “yucky” or “gross” to you, but this is irrelevant. Study emptiness.

931

The foolish ideas that I have conclued are :

  1. Incest : Having sex with own sisters mothers
  2. Orgy parties : Group sexual intercourse
  3. Nectar : Eating nasty stuff.
  4. Bestiality : intercourse with opposite sex animal if can’t find human.

There is no point to discuss about qualified or non-qualified teachers as the doctrines itself is wrong.

Be sure wearing condom

The though inplant to tulkus as little boy is considering women as an obstacle and the best they can do is serve others and at worst they are a nuisance that expressions In the text of Milarepa’s life story-which all lay people and monastics read. Before 1959 , under Dalai Lama’s rule, the worth of women nothing more than a rope. How much women value in Dharmsala nowaday?

[quote=“triceratopses”]Yes but you didn’t understand what I said. The tantras are written from the point of view of realization practitioners, not normal people who become sick just by smelling it or thinking to eat it…It is not difficult or skillful to be a samsaric afflicted person and prefer to eat gourmet pizza instead of feces.
For someone residing in emptiness however, there is no distinction between the 2 there is only purity, and the effects of purity. For them, eating feces is a direct cause of their imminent buddhahood. Of course it seems “yucky” or “gross” to you, but this is irrelevant. Study emptiness.[/quote]

Why don’t they take a big bite of fluid from men and blood from women, urin, fece, bone marrow instead of drinking wine and eating meat? Plus sex, don’t forget. What a good life they have ! The life is people who makes good living can affront it, the difference is those realization practitioners need not to pay for it, they get paid instead. Anyone without moral standard would join that group I assume. What a job!

Correct dharma shouldn’t like that.

932

Now you’re just being silly and illogical and ignoring my arguments.

Doesn’t matter. Tibetan buddhism is the future, it already is.

And none of these things is relevant to 99.999% if practitioners… any attempt by you or anybody else to generalize these behaviors whether you agree with them or understand them or not is slander and deception, and is a heavy bad karma.

933

[quote=“triceratopses”]
As I said before, you can either take trillions of lifetimes to become a buddha by avoiding suffering and trying to reside in emptiness and samadhi as much as possible.
Or you can take the much harder but much quicker path of using suffering itself to generate emptiness. This is very different and radical compared to the other method, where you simply try to avoid suffering as much as possible. .[/quote]

  1. To view suffering itself, what Buddha taught us, is not as your misleading of “to avoid it as much as possible”. For suffering is part of impermanent phenomenons, Buddha taught us to face it wisely with an unattached mind.

  2. You can use suffering as much as you want with which ever way you thought fitted; but suffering itself will not, ever ever, leads you became enlightened. Buddha Sakyamuni had personally proven it to be irrelevant to enlightenment.

For six years severe austerities practices, did not lead to liberation in enlightenment, Siddharta abandoned them and concentrated on meditation in the “middle way” - - a practice of non-extremism … Extremism is the tormenting of the body or indulgence of sensual pleasures.

How do you think of the so call “ advanced practitioners, realized one, they would become so WISE to even want to eat nectar made out of feces eg. nasty stuff and group sexual intercourse ” ? Can these be wise thing to do?? and of non-extremism thing to do?? It looks fitted more to lowest ghost realm messengers.

Wow, leads to the ultimate path of Rakshasas realm. No surprise at all, the exact happening for “Like attracts like”; “ Habits forms the realm ”; for sentient beings whom like blood drinking, flesh eating, group sexual intercourse at most time.

Most people if by choice would rather stay of countless time with in human realm accordingly, waiting for their turns became liberated enlightened one. Instead of being misleading and trapped into beastly like Rakshasas ghost realm, to become its messengers, thus they will remain, until the end of the universe.

But hey, don’t worry, if you want to be excused from ending in Rakshasa realm … just do your most sincere repent to Buddha Sakyamuni or Avalokitesvara / Guanyin Bodhisattva; The Real Avalokitesvara of Buddha Sakyamuni’s path of course.
His World Honorable One understood your pain, your being cheated and misleading, for He already foreseen the happening of wicked heretics counterfeiting, penetrating into Buddhism after His departure. In His teaching stated lots warning for us to be alerted of being trapped into reborn to lower three realms.

Repent, and to follow Him, His true Bodhi teaching and true Buddhism enlightened mentors, for refuge and help.
“Surangama Sutra” for example, stated that Bodhisattva Guanyin will come to your rescuer, and teach you how to be saved from reincarnated to those rakshasa ghost realm or the three bad realms. Do it the sooner the better, time is clicking.

934

[quote=“iwonder”]1. To view suffering itself, what Buddha taught us, is not as your misleading of “to avoid it as much as possible”. For suffering is part of impermanent phenomenons, Buddha taught us to face it wisely with an unattached mind.

  1. You can use suffering as much as you want with which ever way you thought fitted; but suffering itself will not, ever ever, leads you became enlightened. Buddha Sakyamuni had personally proven it to be irrelevant to enlightenment.[/quote]

I’m happy you are using arguments and reasoning.

The historical vaibhahika, sautrantika, and mind-only schools do not accept emptiness. For them, unclean objects possess findable existence which identifies them as what they are. For example a cup is produced by physical causes and conditions and is subject to coarse and subtle impermanence, and is necessarily impure by virtue of being an illustration of the truth of suffering (at least the suffering of change and all-pervasive suffering of samsara)

However once you enter into the madhyamaka system and the world of Nagarjuna this changes, we find that nothing possess findable existence from the side of the object. Objects are established through mental imputation. Thus, it is possible for a pure mind to establish something as pure, whereas we normal people will see it as impure.

Tsongkhapa and his students have written mountains of logical proofs showing that 3 types of beings, a preta, a deity, and a human, can be seeing the same flowing fluid and yet each establishes 3 different parts to that object. The deity establishes nectar of the form realm, the human establishes water, the preta pus and blood. And they are all having valid perceptions.

What the buddha discovered prior to his enlightenment was that mortifying the body was not a path to nirvana. At the time most practitioners were highly skilled meditators with advanced samadhi the likes of which most likely no longer exists on the planet, they correctly viewed the body as an impediment to further and further mental development. When the buddha began taking care of his body again, he was mocked for being attached to his body. But he was not attached at all. This again shows points of view about 1 situation, depending on who is looking.

935

[quote=“triceratopses”]
… they correctly viewed the body as an impediment to further and further mental development. When the buddha began taking care of his body again, he was mocked for being attached to his body. But he was not attached at all. This again shows points of view about 1 situation, depending on who is looking.[/quote]

In Buddha Sakyamuni’s sutra already taught us : “A dish of delicious human food, to heavenly gods and goddess deem it as a pile nasty feces; they won’t want anything to do with this dish. Because their own heavenly food (the true nectar) is so nice that is beyond human realm can dream of.

Lower ghost realm sentient beings would deem this same food as blood, because that’s what they can manage to get hold of; for the rest of better food would be taking by higher ghost realm to eat. To poor hungry ghost realm, they deem it as pus and spit; for these are what is left for them to eat; even so they still need to fight over to get it.”

Logically speaking, if your monks had studied Buddha Sakyamuni’s sutras, they would have been wiser and know better not to eat fake nectar made out of human feces, urine, semen and blood etc., Things that only lower ghost realms would eat. No matter how you disguise it with whatever fancy name, those still is nasty waste coming out of human body; its just similar to ’ the King’s New Dresses.’ a deceptive foolish thing to do.

This goes the same to Rakshasa ghost realm, no matter how much it’s messengers varnished over it, with all sorts good fancy name and good excuese; Rakshasa ghost realms will always be Rakshasa ghost realms; like attract like, habits forms the realms. Be aware and stay far away from them, take Buddha Sakyamuni and his teaching for refuge, Do your best to stay in human realm.

When Siddharta, the Buddha-to-be, abandoned six years severe austerities practices, to begin taking care his body… He just drank a bowl of fresh gaot milk, took a clean bath in river, all were human basic needs for staying healthy, in order for Him to take the next meditation step towards His ultimate Buddha path enlightenment. All of these, had nothing to do with sex, not to mention the immoral impure group sexual intercourse; in which is only needed by Rakshasa ghost realm and it’s messengers.

The body is Not an impediment to further and further mental development. It’s a necessary tool in order to be in ultimate enlightenment. Take good care of our bodies and deeds.

936

You know that tibetan monks are master logicians right? They spend at least 5 hours a day in the debating courtyard, after studying logic and debate for 2 years before beginning their more general studies.

Logically, it is not fake nectar. You yourself have described how 1 object can function in 3 radically different ways based on who is establishing the object. Thus likewise, for an advanced practitioner who is accomplished in emptiness, they can observe purity where we will see only something impure and harmful.

Someone who is accomplished in emptiness is far superior to a deity of the higher realms. Those deities establish only form realm nectar, whereas a realized practitioner is creating the causes for their buddhahood using what you see as shit. If you did not have such poor karma, you could do it too, and I would be complaining at you that you are deluded for eating shit.

In any case, these are extremely rare instances that have nothing to do with the general practices of the tibetan traditions. 99.999% of practitioners are studying tenets, trying to meditate, and trying to understand emptiness 99.999% of the time. Out of the 1000s of western tantrikas I know, none eat shit during their rituals, they bring food that they actually like and can work with, since eating shit is harmful for people with normal karma of normal capacity.

937

Logically, to deliberately ignor Buddha Sakyamuni’s true Bodhi way, and His warning to stay away from heretics and their counterfeiting in Buddhism, for example, Tibetan Tantrism; you choose a bad ending.

The followers of Tibetan Tantrism, are most naturally followed their leader, the Tantrik Master, guru rinpoche, to his well known rakshasa ghost realm, become rakshasa messengers. This cause and effect, is their karma.

938

Again you are just making stupid assertions without any evidence. That’s what small children do.

Also in buddhism there is no such concept as a heretic, there are simply people who have realized the dharma and those who have not, people who commit non-virtuous actions and those who commit virtuous actions.

939

Dear Triceratopses, I mean no harm. But I also know a word “Sophistry”. I myself also studying English over 20 years, and you can see how it is, thank you all for tolerating my poor English by the way.

To my understanding, nectar is more like aspirine pill, anyone who has “good karma” or “lucky enough” can have it and bring it with them. During the rituals (only after 8th(include 8th) Abhiseka, however, what they are eating is sperm and menstrual blood collecting from Mater and consort(s) in stead of nectar. Tsongkhapa think there should have 9 consorts ( age 12 to 20 ), image how much sperm and menstrual blood the student need to swallow.

Take H
2
O for example, just one single drop of mercury into a swimming pool, no matter how much it be diluted, the H
2
O won’t as it was.

940

I guess you have not been informed, but I assure you that the millions of western baby tantric practitioners around the world are not eating such things. Also many times the explanations are metaphoric.

Take H
2
O for example, just one single drop of mercury into a swimming pool, no matter how much it be diluted, the H
2
O won’t as it was.[/quote]

It’s not an appropriate metaphor, since you can choose to accept whatever practice or part of the explanation you like and agree with. There are many who just study tenets intensely and do not pay much attention to any tantric practice, let alone consort practice which is just 1 small part within tantra. For example if the lineage that you practice in is authentic, we likely share the same sources on the instructions for how to achieve samadhi.

One practice does not necessitate another, nor do they make up a solid whole. You would like for them to, so that you could then go on to make the absurd claim that the entire lineage is bad because of your belief that 1 part is bad, but it doesn’t work like that.