The Case for the Foreign Teachers Labor Union

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
21

[quote=“greves”]
This is an interesting point and I have talked about this before as well. Again, I think that a union could be used as a political platform to discuss these types of issues. As it is, foreign teachers who are completely unorganized have no unified voice, no political voice, and cannot push for any type of legislative reform. One of the rights of a union is to push for legislative reform, and again, if such reform ever passed, it would still be useful for teachers to have union support in their individual jobs.[/quote]

Ridiculous. People on working visas having a political voice and working for legislative reform. How does that work in your country? I know it wouldn’t work in mine.

You go to another country and get a job on a working visa, then engage politically for legislative reform…?

WTF?

22

And foreigners who are organized still have no political voice. They. Can’t. Vote. The only things the political apparatus in Taiwan pays attention to are money and votes. Foreign teachers, organized or not, have neither in the amount needed to influence much.

23

And foreigners who are organized still have no political voice. They. Can’t. Vote. The only things the political apparatus in Taiwan pays attention to are money and votes. Foreign teachers, organized or not, have neither in the amount needed to influence much.[/quote]
There might be no political voice, but a union could finance paying members a lawsuit if needed.
That by itself would already put some decent pressure on the employers.
When you say… By the way, I am a union member and from here, everything trough my lawyer, sounds much different than shouting helplessly “I sue you!”

The ability to sue without worrying about the financial outcome puts every member in a much better position.

Right now, you can take your contracts, if you even have one and w.u.r.as.

24

And foreigners who are organized still have no political voice. They. Can’t. Vote. The only things the political apparatus in Taiwan pays attention to are money and votes. Foreign teachers, organized or not, have neither in the amount needed to influence much.[/quote]
There might be no political voice, but a union could finance paying members a lawsuit if needed.
That by itself would already put some decent pressure on the employers.
When you say… By the way, I am a union member and from here, everything trough my lawyer, sounds much different than shouting helplessly “I sue you!”

The ability to sue without worrying about the financial outcome puts every member in a much better position.

Right now, you can take your contracts, if you even have one and w.u.r.as.[/quote]

A lawsuit here, a lawsuit there,
More people wearing lawsuits everywhere.

That’s progress?

25

And foreigners who are organized still have no political voice. They. Can’t. Vote. The only things the political apparatus in Taiwan pays attention to are money and votes. Foreign teachers, organized or not, have neither in the amount needed to influence much.[/quote]
There might be no political voice, but a union could finance paying members a lawsuit if needed.
That by itself would already put some decent pressure on the employers.
When you say… By the way, I am a union member and from here, everything trough my lawyer, sounds much different than shouting helplessly “I sue you!”

The ability to sue without worrying about the financial outcome puts every member in a much better position.

Right now, you can take your contracts, if you even have one and w.u.r.as.[/quote]

A lawsuit here, a lawsuit there,
More people wearing lawsuits everywhere.

That’s progress?[/quote]
That’s what it comes down to when claiming your rights in a legal system.
It’s not that you should, but could, if you had to.
What are your rights without the recourses to fight them through?

Have you ever been ripped off, deciding what to do with your last money?
Paying the rent or paying a lawyer’s first consultation and risking to end up worse.
I have and told the lawyer to write a very decisive letter which really helped.

26

I still have no idea what teachers would actually get from joining this union.

Any illegal activities done by buxibans would be directed to the CLA.

Buxibans won’t alter the pay scale offered for jobs. They will still offer jobs but it will be a take it (sign our contract) or leave it (we’ll find someone else).

Basically this seems like a scheme to take money (union dues) to perform ‘administrative tasks’. I don’t see anything concrete offered aside from basically running a helpline offering advice.

27

[quote=“Abacus”]. . . the CLA.[/quote] I don’t know what the effect is or will be, if any, but the Council of Labor Affairs was recently elevated to ministry status:

[quote]Taiwan’s Council of Labor Affairs (CLA) was formally upgraded to a ministry on Monday. . . .[/quote]–CNA, “Taiwan’s Council of Labor Affairs officially upgraded to full ministry,” China Post, February 18, 2014 chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati … ouncil.htm

Ah, the old “administrative tasks” trick.

28

You can make a pressure group to force the CLA to adhere to existing regulations and bring test cases. Some ABC teachers organized in a similar manner and had some success.

29

Ironlady’s right. No votes, no clout.

30

Many English teachers have a proxy vote though.

31

So the OP, who was to be the savior of the under-privileged English teachers, has appeared to give up half-way through the second page of (mostly) arguments about why a union wouldn’t work. I would expect wannabe union heads would have more gumption than that.

1 Like
32

Back in the early 'seventies, a few years after Vassar College went co-ed, a male friend of mine was admitted to it on a partial scholarship (being from the Southern U.S., he was considered by that liberal institution to be a member of a minority group even though he was white). He told me that Vassar’s janitorial/housekeeping personnel were non-English-speakers from various countries. He said that they began to take English instruction from some of the students, and that the first thing they did when they got the rudiments of English was to get together with each other and attempt to form a labor union.

My friend further informed me that upon learning of that attempt, the administration of Vassar announced that its students were forbidden from giving English instruction to its workers.

I also recall that during the latter part of that decade, I had a conversation with a chemical engineer, in which the engineer told me that unions weren’t necessary at his company, because the pay, benefits, and conditions were so good there. I asked him why his company behaved so generously toward its workers, and he replied that it did so in order to prevent the workers from forming a union.

33

8 years here. Have I ever really been ripped off by a school? Maybe. Probably not.

I think the key is knowing what the laws are specifically and knowing how to play a smart hand if a school tries to screw you over. I had a school try to mess with me when I left. I told them my leaving date, which was a few weeks past when I had to give notice. They said I needed to work for a few weeks past that. I wrote a letter, sent it certified, that included the actual law of how much notice I had to give, as well as the law citing that they cannot withhold my pay (both in English and Chinese). I heard nothing about it until my last day, when they came in with an envelope of cash for the time I had worked.

Working extra days: it is actually part of the job here. Question is how far can you let it go? I see myself as someone who is actually there to not just clock in and get paid to teach English, but also help the school grow. That attitude has made me worth having. Schools tend to give me enough notice and have always been open to me not being able to do things when I cannot.

I’m of the mind that if you hate doing extra work outside of paid class time, teaching is not the profession for you. Whether it is grading tests, making materials, correcting homework, or attending training, my parents (who were both teachers) spent countless hours in their office at home or in a seminar hall somewhere doing extra work. I guess I see the possibility of people to just claim laziness and not do what they need to do to become a good teacher just because you’re a contracted hourly worker.

34

I guess your parents may have got a pension, union , paygrades and decent holidays too. Just pointing out the obvious.

35

Here’s “a ludicrous idea from the outset.”

If you have perspiration, the world is your oxster.

36

I’ve been cataloguing all TEIT threads for the past 2 months. Insane, yes.
This is the only repetitive topic that makes me :roflmao:
Imagine picket lines: “+2X minimum wage & 600/hr is injustice! Exploited stickyballers unite!”

Adding to the valid reasons offered by others, I’d personally never join a union because:

  • the union would be mostly newbs wanting help but not knowing how (or too lazy) to help themselves (like TEIT)
  • vets would spend too much unpaid time & energy helping union newbs (like TEIT), & pay dues for it
  • when (if) a union ever had any influence, vets would be retired or dead

But I respect your effort; your presentation & pitch were better than all past unionists:

'02: Rights for English Teachers (6 pages)
'04: The Democratic Alliance for Foreign Teachers in Taiwan (3)
'04: Are you a member of SSETT? (2)
'05: The state of ESL teaching in Taiwan: A call for Solidarity (6)
'06: EFL teacher unions in Korea and Japan. Taiwan next? (2)
'06: Christoper Veal’s “Foreign Teacher’s Association” (11) :roflmao:
'06: Foreign Teachers’ Society (4)
'08: Realists vs Idealists (2)
'08: Association for native English-speaking instructors? (30!) :thumbsup:
'09: English teachers of Taiwan, untie! (2)
'10: English teachers’ union (2)
'10: Unions in Taiwan & elsewhere (7)
'14: The Case for the Foreign Teacher’s Labor Union

10 have sounded a call to arms; 10 have been shot down. Insane.
Future unionists (& TEFLers) should learn from their predecessors & build upon them.

Study the above Union 101 archives, and you might notice the same strategy & pattern of defeat:
A unionist (usually a newb) sounds the charge, a few newbs rally, most vets stand fast, and the unionists retreat.
They target the wrong audience, and battle with just ideas… but no network, exp, quals, resume, or demo.

Perhaps future unionists could first, either:

  1. Be an agent/recruiter/advocate for newbs (many opps here). Build relationships with newbs, schools, & the CLA.
  2. Or just band with other teachers, start a school, & give yourselves better pay & conditions. Union English School.

Do real work first to build up your experience & credibility. Then talk.
Instead, every unionist steps onstage armed with nothing but talk… so nothing happens. Talk is cheap.

It’s fascinating how our strategies are diametrically opposite:
Group power in numbers = coerce employers to pay more. Wolf pack. Individuals are powerless & irrelevant.
Individual knowledge & skill are power = leverage higher pay or self-employ. Lone wolf. What others do is irrelevant.

Either way, best to read the archives. Wish you good luck/work.

37

:roflmao: :roflmao: Revolutions are always verbose. :laughing:

38

Interesting analogy, but I believe that in fact, there are no lone wolves, because a lone wolf would not survive, and if, by freakish mutant chance it did, it’d be…er…irrelevant.

EDIT: Oops. Seems I’m wrong again. (CHECK BEFORE POSTING)

“However, lone wolves have difficulty hunting, as wolves’ favorite prey, large ungulates, are nearly impossible for a single wolf to bring down alone. Instead, lone wolves will generally hunt smaller animals and scavenge carrion.”

Mech L.D., Adams L.G., Meier T.J., Burch J.W., Dale B.W. (1998) The Wolves of Denali. University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis (but I just got it off Wikipedia)

Scavenging carrion sounds about right.

ENDEDIT

39

You don’t think you’re a lone duck?

Try partnering with just 1 other person to: negotiate pay, improve skills, develop new methods or curriculum, start a school, etc. See what happens. The highest probability outcome is…. nothing. Or worse, lost time, energy, money.

Long-term, everyone navigates this field independently… not as part of a wolf pack, duck flock, team, group, or union.

You work as a university contract lecturer??? Who is the moron… you or your employer?

You assumed I was speaking from theory, and not personal experience.

To clarify: competition is always relevant… in highly competitive markets.
But in TEFL, most competition is migrant labor on extended (or permanent) working holiday. Employers act accordingly.
And TEFL is a nascent field based mostly on hypotheses, so most are relatively unskilled… both employers & employees.
And they quickly give up trying to be skilled… and become irrelevant. See your own threads.
Some try to improve skills via the traditional path of “qualifications”… based mostly on hypotheses.
Regardless, the few who can deliver competitive, relevant results… students & employers react accordingly.

A field based on hypotheses, staffed by transient labor who don’t want citizenship, don’t speak the local language, & don’t view TEFL as their career… but get paid more than average local citizens. Not much case for a labor union.

Said the duck. Go ahead - keep quacking. Don’t be afraid.
I’m not really a lone wolf, and you’re not carrion. Those are just analogies.
You’re a uni contract lecturer who can wiki-cite the feeding habits of lone wolves on a topic about TEFL unions in TW!

40

One person can only do so much, but organise the many and they can do a whole lot more. These guys are starting to figure it out, and I believe they will get most of what they want.

taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c … id=2536149

latinpost.com/articles/13121 … n-hour.htm