[quote=“cloud13”]
A field based on hypotheses, staffed by transient labor who don’t want citizenship, don’t speak the local language, & don’t view TEFL as their career… but get paid more than average local citizens. Not much case for a labor union.[/quote]
Couldn’t have said it better, but really, what field isn’t based on hypotheses?
Almost all workers in Taiwan have representative groups that they can join. It makes a lot of sense for a rep group to exist for English teachers just like any other group.
The problem is that most of the complaints can be solved by going to the CLA. I’m not sure how a group making 2x the local population and teaching 20-25 hrs/wk can feel abused. Yes, there are a lot employers that take liberties with the rules but the solution is standing up for yourself and not bringing more people into the issue. Complaining about something that you or your friends don’t say no to is not the answer.
What is needed is an improved CLA (or a foreigner run hotline) that new teachers can contact to get questions answered.
If I had given you any thought, I suppose I’d have assumed that you had a high opinion of yourself, which your personal experience has tended to confirm. Must be nice for you.
A basic question: Are you proposing a union for
(a) foreign teachers,
(b) foreign English teachers,
© foreign buxiban teachers,
(d) foreign English buxiban teachers
or what?
And what do you mean by “foreign”? (For example, what about dual nationals and ABC’s?)
It seems that there are reoccurring topics. Really? Ya, this is one. Every newbies ponders the question. Also, teaching on-line. Once you get down to what everybody else has been through, you will find the, 1) it doesn’t work and , 2, it’s a good way to go broke.
EDIT to add a link. thenewamerican.com/culture/h … d-sabotage
Labor unions came about in America and elsewhere with a great loss of life. I doubt many Western teachers are willing to face the billy clubs nor few will willingly pay dues to a an organization that isn’t getting the job done.
The problem is that most of the complaints can be solved by going to the CLA. I’m not sure how a group making 2x the local population and teaching 20-25 hrs/wk can feel abused. Yes, there are a lot employers that take liberties with the rules but the solution is standing up for yourself and not bringing more people into the issue. Complaining about something that you or your friends don’t say no to is not the answer.
What is needed is an improved CLA (or a foreigner run hotline) that new teachers can contact to get questions answered.[/quote]
The point is to get organised and support your members. Unions and rep groups almost always can get some improved conditions for their members. The CLA will be influenced by larger groups rather than individuals.
A lot of people in the US in particular have a jaded view about unions, and this view is promoted by right wing think tanks funded by big business, but unions are generally a positive thing for their members, and have had massive success in years gone past in improving workers earnings and working conditions in particular.
Promise made.
Send me $1000 NT per month and I will picket the hell out of them. I will even carry a baseball bat.
Deep question. Well, at least the physical & applied sciences aren’t based on hypotheses.
They study & manipulate unconscious “things” like rockets & baskets - observable, measurable, and fairly predictable.
Humans know certain proven methods which will consistently produce a functioning rocket, basket, or hamburger.
Social sciences (education, TEFL, etc) study & manipulate the human “mind” - not very observable, measurable, or predictable.
For TEFL, little is known how Second Languages are Acquired… especially in an EFL environment.
So, current methods such as CELTA, edutainment, etc… produce poor & inconsistent results.
Not saying social sciences are all pseudo-science. Teaching the same English song for 50 classes will produce few results.
No research necessary to know that.
More experimentation & innovation are necessary… but not much is done, due to numerous obstacles, costs, & risks.
Deep question. Well, at least the physical & applied sciences aren’t based on hypotheses.[/quote]
What!? Sure you’re joking, Mr. cloud13. Physical sciences develop through educated guesses all the time! I believe it was Enrico Fermi who defined physics as an “educated guessing game”.
Sure, that’s how they originated & continue to develop, but that’s not all they possess or where they end.
Physical sciences are based on verifiable & repeatable experiments.
Gravity, friction, evaporation, etc, on Earth, are all still at the level of hypotheses? You must be joking.
If an apple is released from a tree, I “hypothesize” it will always fall downward. You’d bet money on a different hypothesis?
Social sciences don’t currently possess this level of Predictability. Not saying they have none, however.
A generalization not practically applicable to all social situations. Why do the opposite phenomena frequently occur:
The many do not organize, and do less than one person… and the many even act against their own interests.
Bystander effect, groupthink, Abilene’s paradox, bandwagon effect, herd behavior, etc.
Many individual & social forces & conditions inhibit the emergence of TEFL unions in Taiwan, predictably.
The archives show even a teacher’s group for professional development or networking… has never endured.
The main difference between McDonald’s workers & EFL teachers: (Wage - Cost of Living) + Time = Quality of Life.
Generally, people who have little to lose, take more risks than people who have more to lose.
Again, all this is just Talk. If you believe you’re right, then Do something to prove that TEFL groups are realistic.
Easy for you to Talk & not Do: you’re not in the TEFL game, don’t know the other players, & got no chips on this table.
Try convincing your real life teacher friends to organize first. No one’s stopping you.
You’ll still fail. I’d bet money on that prediction… how about you.
Illogical. You’ve given me too much thought: you engaged first, replied twice, & thought of my self-concept.
Your hostility is understandable from your signature: searchers have “bloody useless & dysfunctional friends”.
I think non-searchers are “useless & dysfunctional”. You should’ve let sleeping lone wolves lie.
I don’t mind personal attacks; sometimes they’re relevant. But usually, they signal you’ve surrendered your positions.
So far, your 3 opinions in 3 posts on this TEFL union thread:
I’m sure you & some others find these opinions “useful & functional”. So keep quacking… history says you will.
Your thread titles were too difficult to categorize (you don’t care about title searchability), so you got your own category.
Most don’t realize your current 10-page whine next door isn’t an isolated incident… but like your other 22 TEIT threads.
Mostly whines & pleas for help with classes & textbooks… at the same job. How useful & functional you are.
23 threads = #2 non-searcher in the past 12 years of TEIT. Keep whining. You seem to have a high opinion of it.
[quote=“cloud13”]
I don’t mind personal attacks.[/quote]
Evidently
[quote=“cloud13”]
Illogical. You’ve given me too much thought: you engaged first, replied twice, & thought of my self-concept. .[/quote]
Illogical yourself. And factually wrong. The reply above is my first. It is in the past tense, so it refers to the original “engagement”, when I confess I hadn’t given you much thought, and it is a correction of your statement (embedded in a personal attack) about my view of you. i.e.
Pretty difficult to avoid thinking about your "self concept’ under those circumstances.
Not necessary to think very hard, though, since its self-evident. It’s also the usual pre-condition to free market/social Darwinist/rugged individualist ideas. The law of the jungle naturally suits people who feel themselves to be tigers.
Its surprising, rather ironic (me attack you 
), and apparently logically inconsistent to refer to this as a personal attack. Nothing inherently wrong with a high opinion of yourself. It (and the associated ideas) aren’t necessarily wrong, or even necessarily associated with unpleasantness, though the latter is probably the way to bet, and you’ve done nothing to weaken that association here.
[quote=“cloud13”]
So far, your 3 opinions in 3 posts on this TEFL union thread:
.[/quote]
As far as I can tell, in general terms, you’re here having a go at my 3 wee posts for being irrelevant to [strike]your[/strike] this thread, but you do it while allegedly “analyzing/summarizing” ALL my board posts in entirely different threads, and misrepresenting/misunderstanding (there’s no need to decide) part of my signature.
And you’re saying above that I have given you too much thought?
I have now though, and won’t be posting any further replies.
Specifically, Re the “lone wolves” thing the nature bit is AFAIK true. It does not apply to you because you’ve got your analogy ass-backwards.
The irrelevant bit, in a sense, and by coincidence, fits, because you represented yourself as an individual of exceptional skill and power who can transcend the usual supply and demand relationship.
The “scavenging carrion” bit (which may be what uncorked your vitriol bottle, dunno) doesn’t fit, for the same reason.
In the absence of collective action, when supply exceeds demand, its the majority that are “lone wolves” (or lone/dead ducks) and are reduced to “scavenging carrion”.
“Sounds about right” was, if you like, a whine on behalf of the powerless, un-organised majority, (or just a recognition of that reality.) Lone wolves probably whine a lot, but you aren’t a lone wolf.
Maybe a Great White? Magnificent solitary top predator, not big on logic but with a snappy bite reflex?
Cue scary “Jaws” theme.
I’ll never put on a life jacket again.
My question is, is there already a union for public school teachers here? Can foreigners join it?