I’ve commented before and said my bit (I think) but I’d just like to say I really appreciate this thread and people sharing their personal details and comparing it to other countries. It is quite insightful.
I don’t own and only rent (two bedroom flat in the UK with no parking in a mediocre town) and it costs me $1,150 USD per month. Not including council (property) tax which is another $150 - rest of the bills are something like $50 a pop for utilities. Socially, it is strongly pushed for people to own their houses, but I just can’t be arsed and don’t think it’s the right thing to do for me. Too much hassle and burden. If I got another opportunity I can be out of here in four weeks - I’m paying for the agility, but not by much, maybe $80-100 a month.
@Noel With the new tax laws in the US, we are limited to a 10kusd deduction for interest and tax, which is not a lot in areas with expensive housing and/or high property tax rates.
You definitely need to diversify, so I agree that it is probably not a good idea to spend all of your salary on mortgage without setting aside a retirement fund at least. Our home has definitely outperformed our 401k over the past 20 years or so (I am pretty conservative with investments), but both are important parts of our retirement planning.
That said, I’ve done about 40 hours of yard work over the past month or so and am thinking an apartment or condo might not be such a bad idea :-).
It’s nice to own your own home buit with Taipei’s massively expensive homes that couldn’t happen for a lot of people close to the city. Out further…Yeah its possible, and those places are a lot more livable than they they used to be and more choices too.
With this latest covid crisis I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a major trend to move away from the very expensive cities , either to smaller cities or towns and even villages ,due to remote working. I don’t need to live in Taipei city anymore as I don’t have to go to the office . I know a lot of people like to live in major cities due to the entertainment available and convenience and unis abd schools (in Taiwan because they set it up like that )so it depends what you want.
I believe that wherever one’s family is makes a home. Owning the property where one lives doesn’t really matter. I also think that this type of thinking is propaganda to make people stay in one place for decades (as “salarymen” for the most part) tied to their overpriced mortgage, but that is just me - I prefer to have the freedom to live wherever I want.
Sense of stability for family
Autonomy
not paying someone else’s mortgage for them
can make changes you want
if you buy in the right spot it can really pay off, we made 200k+ US selling our apt in Tainan
Holds value pretty well even in recessions (knock on wood)
Minus
Repairs are dumb expensive
Plumbers and Maintenance costs are a major rip off, dealing with bad companies trying to rip you off for services etc.
Insurance
Taxes are very high in some states
If you don’t fix it, it doesn’t get fixed its all on you
There are several good reasons besides low exchange rates to buy in Kuala Lumpur instead of Taipei/New Taipei City/Taichung in 2020-2022 and foreseeable future
Malaysia Projected GDP to 9% highest in Asia in 2021- Despite coronavirus
USD/NTD to MYR at record earnings
Record low interest rate for Malaysian Banks
TRX Tun Razak Exchange (Malaysias 101) and New Financial Hub opening in 2021. Their plan is to be a Financial Hub like Singapore, HK but they offer lower wages and rent to foreign Banks. Since all 3 countries speak English, Malaysia has lowest wage of the 3 and now that China is taking over HK much of this Financial activity will go to Singapore and Malaysia.
Malaysia has good laws governing Building quality (for new constructions after 2016)
Malaysia has laws similar to US regulating Realtors (unlike Taiwan where Realtors lie like used car salesmen)
Malaysia property cost per sq ft at 12 year lows. House index at record lows
Malaysian Banks will give mortgages to foreigners at equal interest rates as locals. The only advantage of locals is they can borrow up to 90% whereas foreigners need to often put 40-50% down.
Malaysia 2nd highest GDP in SE Asia and Median income/salary
Malaysia will be considered a developed country by World Bank in a couple years
Property prices lower than Bangkok, Saigon, Taipei, Manila etc but Kuala Lumpur/Malaysias salary is higher than all except Taipei/Taiwan. Also Malaysia gets more tourists than Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines, and KL gets more tourists than Tokyo
ROI is often 3-6% unlike Taipei which is 0.01%
Kuala Lumpur is the 3rd most visited City in Asia after Bangkok and Singapore.
Kuala Lumpur is the 7ths most visited city in the world… Many buildings have no AirBnb restrictions… Taipei is 20th
Friendly MM2H (Malaysia My 2nd Home) 10 year renewal residences
They Speak English
You can buy a brand new 2bed 1bath 700-800 sq ft Luxury Condo with finishing/partially furnished to a high level in the heart of Kuala Lumpur near Petronas for the price of a couple parking spaces in Daan.
Housing in Kuala Lumpur are near rock bottoms (might bottom out 2020-2021) and will rise unlike Taipei
Malaysia has an increasing population projected for next 30+ years. Taiwans population will peak in a couple years then drop fast.
Taipei Population falling YOY to outer cities
Taiwans housing price projected by NTU and TW Govt studies to fall an average of 0.3% for next 25-30 years. This is the 4th charted real estate cycle if this cycle follows the previous 3 cycles
A good 2 bed 2 bath around city center can cost only 1,000,000 to 1,200,000 MYR or 6,000,000-8.5 million NTD
Taiwans Real Estate Rent to Buy ratio is perhaps the worst in the world now. This is an advantage for renters in Taiwan but I dont suggest buying anything in Taipei, New Taipei City or Taichung. Taoyuan is ok but it may be hard to rent if you need to leave.
Malaysia is the only country in SE Asia where a foreigner can FREEHOLD property and land.
The dangers I see was the overbuilding of Condos which is driving the prices down. However the Govt passed laws in 2017 to restrict approval of new high end apartment projects until current overhang stock is sold. It took a lot of research to compile this info, I can give you the links to data if youre interested. I was looking at Taipei, Ho Chi Min, Bangkok, Manila, and KL to make these comparisons
That’s a good list and well researched , although I would favour Vietnam overall due to massive investment there.
Malaysia sounds good but getting a loan to buy a house is not easy I guess ? So would have to pay all cash ? Taiwan investment just has the advantage of being able to get a mortgage here if working here.
Just on the point of real estate, I saw many stores are closed down around Tianmu (part of long-term trend but virus has been devastating obviously ) and I heard parts of Zhongxiao too. Neihu looks like the most prosperous part of Taipei now but even then the mall there has had some restaurant closures .
Obviously covid has made things worse but population. In Taiwan is dropping and many families moved out of Taipei . I’m guessing the latest idea will be to throw the gates open to some rich HKers especially if they buy houses here.
No Foreigners can easily get a loan in Malaysia. The rules depend on each bank, the rule of thumb is you need 40-50% downpayment. Certain customers of HSBC Premium accounts can get 70% loans for example. Terms of loan interest rate is same as locals. You don’t need residency or income in Malaysia to qualify for a mortgage in Malaysia. Some countries are favored over others depends on each bank. In Vietnam you can’t freehold property its only by a 70yr lease I believe? And the condo needs to be 51% local occupied in Vietnam. In Malaysia you can freehold a house with land, and if you purchase a condo you own the section of land
If I lived in the US, I might buy a house. Maybe. It would depend on the costs.
Here in Taiwan, I pay NT$15,000/ month for a 30 ping brand new construction 2 bed 2 bath with tiny (standard) kitchen and massive balcony/patio (I’m on the first floor)
My landlord paid (cash) for it in 2017, ~NT$9,000,000. At 0% interest and 0% down (obviously not going to happen), my monthly payment would be NT$25,000/month on a 30 year mortgage. Were I to have bought the apartment at the mystical 0% rates, I’d be out almost an additional US$300/month. But of course a mortgage is going to come with some amount of interest, even if it’s right around 1% at the moment. Sure, I’d be working towards ownership after 30 years, but…
There are also HUGE cracks forming in the master bedroom and bathroom, three years after the building was built. My guess is the foundation isn’t stable. A lot of the electrical outlets don’t connect to anything. The wires that should open into every unit (cable, CCTV, etc.) are actually only accessible on the roof. This is standard in these “luxury” units in Taiwan, where they did all sorts of cost cutting things that they won’t take responsibility for.
I wouldn’t buy property here at its current costs. If there was a closer mortgage to rental cost, I might consider it, but even with the temptingly low interest rates, it’s not worth it. The last thing I would want is for my “luxury” unit to come crumbling down in ten years, which I imagine my apartment building will do.
I was interested in Vietnam specifically Saigon at first, then Bangkok. The more I looked into it the less attractive they were. If it was 2015 or prior buying in Saigon would have been a great investment, for Bangkok condos are already overpriced. Saigon is now overpriced. Maybe Hanoi is good but I haven’t looked into it.
I visited Vietnam quite often over the last few years, I strongly believe it’s the next Taiwan/Korea so hard to go wrong investing in a small apartment there. But I do like Malaysia a lot too and it has a lot going for it.
No. Not in my name anyway so not appropriate . The most I could get so far is 2 million ntd personal loan I could get a mortgage in Taiwan I think but it needs to be for a property in Taiwan . I don’t plan to buy any property here . If I could get half the price of a property covered by a mortgage in Malaysia that could be a goer!