The Death Thread

Link?

You think a movie narrative is a genuine opinion on the question of what is the meaning of life? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I’m not going to waste time trawling through your past posts (I’m bored, but not THAT bored), but I’ve tangled with you enough to see more than one example of dismissive obnoxiousness come from you in the past.

What do you mean? Musings from a freshman Philosophy 101 class count, but a movie-of-the-week’s declaration that the meaning of life is “family” doesn’t? You said you doubt “any” are trite. I am replying that some certainly are.

This might sound like I borrowed it from @TT 's free pornography thread, but have you ever heard of the double slit experiment (giggity) ?

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I’ve been meaning to sit and watch David Chalmers for a while, there’s s lot of stuff out there, plus he has a book coming out.

He’s been as proponent of consciousness as a key feature of physical reality, but I’ve put off dedicating time to the reading / watching. I guess this is a fine time.

See. I knew we would find common ground one day. My optimism has been fed. Nomnomnom

You said you doubt “any” are trite. I am replying that some certainly are

Allow me to clarify then. Any genuine answer shouldn’t be considered trite. Nothing is an acceptable answer, as is god is good, as is men should wear more hats. Words after all are symbols or mostly metaphors we barely notice.

I’m generally interested in stories about people who face terminal illnesses, some of the perspectives there are quite inspiring and grounded.

I try to take a perspective of things we can control, versus things we don’t.

We don’t control the general definition of the meaning of life, for example, nobody will ever agree on that completely. Better chance of giving and taking feedback as to what generally causes a feeling of true satisfaction in life, I think (and who better to draw from than people who have gone though a good part of it, and know they’ll pass soon?)

That’s where the experiences of others come into play, for me. Individuals can’t experience most of the things, but larger groups can, and that guidance is valuable (including things people sometimes perceive as satisfying them in the future, but end up not being the case).

We don’t control how much runway there is, and everyone runs out of it. Personally, if I go out thinking I wasn’t a decent person to people around me, and didn’t play at least some small part in helping things move forward, I would go out unsatisfied.

And then at the same time, we’re insignificant speck space monkeys too tempted into egotistical activities, like defining the meaning of life :sweat_smile:. So I think also maybe satisfying to go out not having taken life, or yourself too seriously.

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Good stuff :slight_smile:
My train of thought runs more general, perhaps more, ah, ‘egostatistical’.

While my experience of life is unique, the capacity to experience it is not, or so I presently assume. I am not (yet :crazy_face: ) a hopeless person, but I’ve made the observation that life, and all existence, is largely meaningless, one long spontaneous reaction. Me being a meaning person, this was hard to take, but it left me with what I can only assume was left to many who’ve sat and thought and studied more than necessary to secure a living: Meaning is a deliberate act, a choice.

My meaning, paraphrased, is that we’re all in this together, and what comes next is best treated by loving those we meet, golden rule, mercy, charity, etc.

Edit: I forgot to add, also, that Meaning may be well too far above our pay grade, so as to appear meaningless. Show vector calculus to a first grader. They will draw conclusions based only on the diagrams of contours observed, perhaps the occasional plus & minus sign; everything else will appear meaningless.

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Yup.

It’s like the question of confidence. Are you born with it? Or do you act first and gain confidence? Regardless of the outcome.

Nice post.

I tend to believe that we are the only advanced deep thinkers on the entire planet. That we can sit in deserts ten thousand yards ago or in skyscrapers today and ponder our own mortality is pretty significant. Because if that I also believe is what gets us to shoot shit out of the solar system ostensibly for science but essentially for good primate fun.

Evolution is just a thing that happens, no purpose to it.

Life is also not just a human thing. There are 5 massive kingdoms of life all going about their days just like us.

I am always curious why people think we are the only thing in existence that feels and thinks the ways we do. How many species have we really become fluent with and had drawn out conversations about their views on mortality? Not even dogs… The belief only we can do these things seems a bit arrogant to be honest.

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Given that evolution is a response to one’s or it’s environment, I’d argue that is does, but that it’s purpose is not rational in the human sense of the word.

I’m reading about organic molecules that fit extremely well into human receptors now. How the hell did that happen? Opium, caffeine…all natural…dunno though if these molecules evolved to BETTER suit us or not, but it’s an interesting question.

That’s where I am. IF plants can sense what suits us and then alter themselves to do just that…I’d say that’s pretty cool. Why ARE dogs so easy to breed and train? Why aren’t spiders? Or are they and we just don’t see it that way?

:idunno: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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By the way, to keep with the thread purpose, I read recently that people who have passed out, blacked out have less fear of death as they seem to believe that the blacking out, the tunnel vision and light headedness, last words, last thought, etc, is what it will be like when the lights shut off permanently.

Have to say for me, this is true. I had heat stroke when I was young, vision pinholed and I was just gone. Luckily I sat down before I left the building. Had something similar happen several times into my twenties. During the 921 earthquake in Taichung, at age 32, as my wife and I were waiting on the tenth floor to die in the collapsed rubble of our apartment building, I had zero fear of dying while being fully aware that it was a distinct possibility.

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Isn’t evolution just a process caused by interactions between organisms? It doesn’t have a purpose, it just happens.

Eventually everything evolves into a crab. So start sharpening your pincers.

I think I am referring to applied evolution, not the concept. How living things change to better succeed in their environment.

I think along the same lines, evolution is genetic change caused by the environment. If evolution causes a benefit, that’s pure chance. Evolution isn’t a process of making organisms better able to survive, it’s simply a change process. Adaptability to the environment is happenstance.

Back to death… I like the idea that we, as individuals, aren’t even really here in the first place. When does your ‘life’ start? At parturition? Or was I alive in my parents reproductive organs before that? Or was I only alive once the sperm and egg that were initially me first collided? When did my parents lives start?
So what is my death? Was I dying the moment I was born? Or the moment I was conceived? Am I only ‘dead’ once my organic material stops regeneration?
Humans don’t know much, but we love to think we are highly intelligent, more intelligent and special than anything else in the universe. What’s an octopus thinking about as it plays in the seabed, as it hides from predators, as it mates for the one and only time in its existence, as it gets chomped by a shark? We don’t know.
I don’t really understand the point at which I came into existence, so I really don’t know at what point that existence ceases. :grin:

Plants do change, albiet slowly. but for something to have intelligence why on earth must hey prove it to one great ape species for it to reality? They dont need to suit us. In fact many plants communicate when being attacked and start changing their chemistry in self defense…

Dogs are easier as they are closer in relation, movement, behaviour etc to people. That said, spiders have been trained. I ha e trained black widows, watched them hunt, feed and protect their young as well as starve to death after hunting.prey for their babies. This was Western Black widows. I have done a similar study in taiwan with Uropogyids Typopeltis crucifer with fairly similar observations. There is cannabilism sometimes. But there is in humans as well, So that argument never held any weight. If anything, it leans more in the direction of indivuals of a given species have independent thought, wants etc. What most field biologists would call “not shit sherlock findings” :slight_smile:

My argument is that our ignorance does not equate to others lacking intelligence.

Ahh i see your point. Certainly evolution as is isnt anything more than a process. Of course many species are aware of their circumstances and make intentional changes to adnust better to their environments. I doubt that most species carry out eugenics…but who knows?

I agree. When i have long lasting deep conversations with religious friends (im agnostic, but lean athiest) i bring up that everything is just energy for a simole use of the word. Gods and ghosts are almost certainly bullshit man made control constructs. But where science and religion can very easily meah together is using energy as the descriptor. I am like you, in this case. Our energy does get created or destroyed. Birth and death are simply just changes of forms and allocations. When w die, we get absorbed into billions of other life forms and the cycle continues. One could argue our living state as we think about it is also just living inside other beings as we are also an ecosystem within ourselves.

Plants tend to exploit pollinators though. I mean seriously, who gives less a fuck than plants what thoughtful apes or bugs and whatnot do with their spare time, just as long at they tend their gardens religiously and derive their own pointlessly absurd satisfaction from it. case in point, I smile…large…when I see new asparagus stalks poking out of the raised beds, and I tear every stray weed and grass out like they slapped a baby.

There extreme ideas that even say they farm us (animals)

Then there are those crazy mind controlling fungi. Its all intentional. Who says death is anything but a normal part of energy changes.