The Don's Deleterious Monkey Wrench Thread

[jotham]

@nz

@jotham

ohhh court cases that never got heard, well surprise, surprise, surprise, I probably couldn’t find evidence there too if that were the only place I were looking at.

There. Is. No. Evidence. If there were, there are quite a few media platforms that would display the actual evidence for all the world to see. If I try to sue someone for running over me and I have dashboard cam footage but the courts tell me “no, we don’t wanna hear the case”, my next step is to take that evidence to any and every media outlet and make a scene. If there were evidence, it would have gotten out by now.

There are media platforms that display them. Problem is that Google hides them for the very last results in their algorithm presumably because they think you’re not really interested. Not to mention Facebook, Youtube, Twitter and others taking down all of that because they’re afraid you might get the wrong idea.

After Trump was not being heard in the courts, he took his evidence to those 7 or 8 states where he got a hearing and presented evidence to the Republican legislators of all those states, and in whose control the Constitution places the election, even the results. And because of that information, they made dual slates and sent them to Congress to discuss the fraud and decide which slate to endorse.

Evidence that you seek, such as on the dashboard cam, isn’t so easy here. There’s no smoking gun but like in a court case, you look at the preponderance of evidence. First of all, the Democrats, knowing they would be soundly defeated for decades to come had Trump won a 2nd term, had to cheat so much to overcome the barrier to cheating that our electoral college system is meant to quash, it was highly organized and along many fronts, and in 7 states, so there isn’t any one smoking gun. To sift through it all tests the patience of most folks. But if you’re really curious, you just need to browse and you get the picture. I’ve been updating myself for the last 2 years so I’m aware of most of it, but to explain and detail it all would be like writing a book.

I would suggest if you were slightly curious about it, you would find it easily. But it’s convenient for you to look the other way, because your man won.

I hail from Kansas, I know about election fraud from the famous election of 1855. Proslavery Missourians came in by the 1000s to vote for a proslave state and even reached 90% proslave candidates, even though the residents were widely known to be freestaters. Leavenworth had 5 times more votes than residents. Lot of this is similar to what happened in 2020. The freestaters made their own legislature in Topeka and the Democrat president, Pierce arrested their governor and charged them all with treason. This is the turmoil that John Brown came out of. But finally, after having a few fraud elections, they finally had a more-or-less election that came out as totally Free State for Kansas. But the whole country was watching the disgusting Democrat chicanery.

https://civilwaronthewesternborder.org/blog/contested-election-1855

Here are other sites to browse for other details if you’re curious and want to get in the weeds.

Evidence of Voter Fraud in the 2020 US Presidential Election

Here is the Evidence of Voter Fraud from All over the US | We the People...

Fraudulent Use of Absentee Ballots, Dirty Voter Rolls Must Be Sorted out...

[jotham]

@nz

@jotham

In Wisconsin, drop boxes were very contentious, as there was no way to have the process observed, such as with main-in ballots.

The only place in WI that they were “contentious” were the only two countries that always vote blue. The purple and red counties didn’t have any problems with ballot drop boxes. If you cannot see the problem with this in a democracy, the fact that the claims have been made IS the problem.

What I mean by contentious is that it was illegal. The legislative branch didn’t provide for drop boxes. It was the Democrat Executive that prepared such presumably because of Covid, but also because it’s easier to cheat that way. And if you were following the latest Supreme Court ruling in Wisconsin, they declared them all illegal from now on, because it doesn’t comport with the legislative requirements for elections. So there you go, Trump won Wisconsin, if they had only heard his case and ruled earlier that these drop boxes were illegal.

[nz]

@jotham

There are media platforms that display them

If any of the evidence could be compiled in such a way that a court of law would be compelled to hear it, Fox and OAN, at minimum, would have put the info out there. If this is as big of a deal as election deniers are making it out to be, it would be front and center, shoved in our faces at least across major conservative news outlets. When even Fox and OAN, networks known for making mountains out of mole hills, are struggling to find a way to prove it, it’s really hard to convince me that the evidence exists at all. Democracy-shattering news does not hide on random websites that were created exclusively for one cause.

[jotham]

It’s just too much information to deal with and it’s like getting in the weeds. Our Constitution has a solution to all that, when election laws are being broken, the election is cast in doubt and must be done again. That’s how it’s usually done historically. And the election law was being broken in all those 7 states, which made it easier for fraud to occur. It’s as simple as that.

[nz]

@jotham

What I mean by contentious is that it was illegal. The legislative branch didn’t provide for drop boxes. It was the Democrat Executive that prepared such presumably because of Covid, but also because it’s easier to cheat that way. And if you were following the latest Supreme Court ruling in Wisconsin, they declared them all illegal from now on, because it doesn’t comport with the legislative requirements for elections. So there you go, Trump won Wisconsin, if they had only heard his case and ruled earlier that these drop boxes were illegal.

Who is the “Democrat Executive”? Evers, the governor? I’m quite clear on the tactics of the WI lawmakers. I’m related to one. They don’t want to do their jobs, which is listen to ALL of their constituents and make and pass laws based on the desires of their people. They only want to obstruct democracy.

You’re also saying two different things here. The first is that they put the drop boxes out because of COVID. Then you say it’s because it’s easier to cheat. Can you elaborate on how making it easier for individuals to exercise their constitutional right is “cheating”? I’ve voted absentee for most of my life. I am sent ONE ballot. I then mail in that ballot, either by putting it in the mail box at the end of the driveway, dropping it off at the post office or in a post office drop box, or I can drop it off at city hall or other locations with drop boxes. It gives me the opportunity to sit with the choices, do my research, make an informed decision, and cast my vote when it works for me. This is the ultimate enfranchisement of voters. Unless having an informed electorate is cheating, in which case we better get in making sure education goes the way of abortion.

[nz]

@jotham

It’s just too much information to deal with and it’s like getting in the weeds

No. If there are so many weeds to comb through that the only lawyers willing to look at the evidence are headed to federal prison / disbarred, the evidence isn’t there. There are plenty of patriotic American lawyers and investigative journalists who would happily compile the evidence well enough to fit it on a restaurant child’s coloring placemat for DJT to entertain himself during the very important meeting of grownups. It’s been two years and no one has done that. A lot of people have admitted under oath that there’s no evidence though. If the evidence were there, present it to me in a short series of tweets.

[Mick]

@nz

If any of the evidence could be compiled in such a way that a court of law would be compelled to hear it, Fox and OAN, at minimum

Not Fox, they are an establishment organ, a right leaning one but establishment never the less, they called Arizona before anyone else and fired Lou Dobbs for asking questions about the election.

Anyone appearing on Sean Hannity is usually a part of the establishment like Lindsey Graham, a dog and pony show for right wingers.

[TT]

@jotham

There’s 84 electors who served as Trump electors because they thought he won the election in 7 states.

But it’s really the tip of the iceberg. I think 100 is underestimating, there are 1000s.

Seems you have much faith in fantasy

[Poundsand]

@jotham

After Trump was not being heard in the courts, he took his evidence to those 7 or 8 states where he got a hearing and presented evidence to the Republican legislators of all those states, and in whose control the Constitution places the election, even the results. And because of that information, they made dual slates and sent them to Congress to discuss the fraud and decide which slate to endorse.

you mean a handful of legislators and others sent an alternate slate, not from the state legislature (where the constitution actually places the responsibility). all 50 state legislatures sent one official slate. the ‘alternate electors’ that declared themselves such, separate from that certified by the state bodies, have no more claim than you or I declaring ourselves alternate electors.

[jotham]

@nz

@jotham

What I mean by contentious is that it was illegal. The legislative branch didn’t provide for drop boxes. It was the Democrat Executive that prepared such presumably because of Covid, but also because it’s easier to cheat that way. And if you were following the latest Supreme Court ruling in Wisconsin, they declared them all illegal from now on, because it doesn’t comport with the legislative requirements for elections. So there you go, Trump won Wisconsin, if they had only heard his case and ruled earlier that these drop boxes were illegal.

Who is the “Democrat Executive”? Evers, the governor? I’m quite clear on the tactics of the WI lawmakers. I’m related to one. They don’t want to do their jobs, which is listen to ALL of their constituents and make and pass laws based on the desires of their people. They only want to obstruct democracy.

You’re also saying two different things here. The first is that they put the drop boxes out because of COVID. Then you say it’s because it’s easier to cheat. Can you elaborate on how making it easier for individuals to exercise their constitutional right is “cheating”? I’ve voted absentee for most of my life. I am sent ONE ballot. I then mail in that ballot, either by putting it in the mail box at the end of the driveway, dropping it off at the post office or in a post office drop box, or I can drop it off at city hall or other locations with drop boxes. It gives me the opportunity to sit with the choices, do my research, make an informed decision, and cast my vote when it works for me. This is the ultimate enfranchisement of voters. Unless having an informed electorate is cheating, in which case we better get in making sure education goes the way of abortion.

In different states, the executive may be the governor, or Secretary of State. In this case, it was the WEC, Wisconsin Election Commission, which is still under the executive branch, and made drop boxes legal though the legislature didn’t make them legal. The Constitution makes very clear that the legislative branch gets to make the rules for the elections of that state. Probably because legislators are closer to the people and there are 100 or more of them, whereas the Executive Branch, though it be a committee of people as in this case, is still under the auspices of one man or woman, and that is dangerous because when you put the control of elections under one person, and that person wants to help influence the outcome of an election, they can sure do a lot, especially when they act as both legislator and executer.

I’m sure it is convenient to vote at the convenience of your home at any time of day, but there’s no observers, a lot of cheating can occur between you deliberating your vote and then marking your vote and then delivering it. In the old days of 1850s, conning was surprisingly common, in which tricksters would force people to drink or knock them out and guide their voting for the desired candidate. Poll observers were alert and on the lookout for such. Yes, it’s convenient for you, but it’s also convenient for Democrats to stuff the ballot box and other tricks and the legislative branch makes these rules considering all these possibilities. The safest way to vote, which will always be the case, is to show up with your ID on the voting day and make sure you and (majority of others) are being watched the whole process from the time you mark your ballot until it is safely delivered.

If given the opportunity to cheat, Democrats will cheat. So you simply cannot give them the opportunity to cheat, even during Covid. That was the problem, with Covid Democrats saw a golden opportunity that rarely presents itself and they took it quicker than you can say “Jack Robinson.” And that’s too bad, because you or I can’t vote as conveniently as we’d like to, but it’s just life. There’s many inconveniences and processes we have to endure because lot of people out there aren’t honest.

Wisconsin Supreme Court: Ballot Drop Boxes Are Illegal

[jotham]

@Poundsand

@jotham

After Trump was not being heard in the courts, he took his evidence to those 7 or 8 states where he got a hearing and presented evidence to the Republican legislators of all those states, and in whose control the Constitution places the election, even the results. And because of that information, they made dual slates and sent them to Congress to discuss the fraud and decide which slate to endorse.

you mean a handful of legislators and others sent an alternate slate, not from the state legislature (where the constitution actually places the responsibility). all 50 state legislatures sent one official slate. the ‘alternate electors’ that declared themselves such, separate from that certified by the state bodies, have no more claim than you or I declaring ourselves alternate electors.

Oh no, they had equal claim. In many of those states, they would have preferred to send only the Trump slate, and they should have, because the Constitution gives them the power to do so. But in deference to the Executive Branch certifying the Biden slate, they sent both and placed the hot potato in Congress’ hands. According to process, they would have discussed the fraud that the Biden slate was tainted with, and when there is a tainted slate, the Congress (or Vice President) can choose either slate by a single vote for each state. But Democrats created a riot so they could shut it all down, they knew what was transpiring. It’s just more of their Democrat chicanery.

[jotham]

@nz

@jotham

It’s just too much information to deal with and it’s like getting in the weeds

No. If there are so many weeds to comb through that the only lawyers willing to look at the evidence are headed to federal prison / disbarred, the evidence isn’t there. There are plenty of patriotic American lawyers and investigative journalists who would happily compile the evidence well enough to fit it on a restaurant child’s coloring placemat for DJT to entertain himself during the very important meeting of grownups. It’s been two years and no one has done that. A lot of people have admitted under oath that there’s no evidence though. If the evidence were there, present it to me in a short series of tweets.

I know EpochTimes did so on December 4, 2020. They may have an updated chart of it. But it takes time to read and absorb. Most people, they get the big picture, they hear fraud here and there in this state and that state and the narrative we all know, which is that 6 counties in different states shut down the vote during the night (which never occurred in our history and never should again) when Trump was well ahead, and then when we woke up, Biden already magically won. And all the news articles in the past 2 years fit the same narrative. And 70% Republicans believe the election was stolen (and surprising number of Democrats too) and it’s not necessary to get into the weeds for that, we can intuit a lot.

And this is how it’s always happened in history, like the 1855 fraud election of Kansas. The nation wasn’t served up with scientific data on how the vote was stolen. I’m sure the southerners and democrats said, there’s nothing to see here, that’s usually how the whole rigamarole goes. But the Northerners heard about the events and stories surrounding the events and the context of the times and the character of Democrats and didn’t take much for them to make the right conclusion.

People will go to their graves believing what they want to believe. That’s one reason racism was so hard to stamp out because it stays with people as long as they live. Democrats will believe Biden won fairly until they die, because that’s just how politics and life is. But a new generation will look at the same data that’s available to us and see it from a fresh perspective, not tainted with their own bias and will make more openminded assessment for the sake of history.

I never go to Fox or OAN and hardly Newsmax either, so hadn’t tried to see if they have anything. I agree with Mick that I wouldn’t bother with Fox, they’ve changed a lot in recent years.

Keep in mind this is very dated December 4, 2020. And not sure if they have updated version.

Election Fraud Allegations: Infographic

[nz]

It worries me that your main source is now Falun Gong media. If Fox and MSNBC are already the bottom of the barrel of “information I would never trust”, Epoch Times is the bottom of a hole near the Earth’s molten core.

[Poundsand]

@jotham

they had equal claim

based on what, exactly? you referenced the Constitution - that gives the power to state legislatures (which have all legislated ec delegates by popular vote) not individual legislators and assorted other random individuals.

[jotham]

@Poundsand

@jotham

they had equal claim

based on what, exactly? you referenced the Constitution - that gives the power to state legislatures (which have all legislated ec delegates by popular vote) not individual legislators and assorted other random individuals.

The legislative body of those 7 states conjointly sent dual slates, the viability of such slates to be decided by Congress. They did so because of fear that the Biden slate was sufficiently tainted by fraud.

[jotham]

@nz

It worries me that your main source is now Falun Gong media. If Fox and MSNBC are already the bottom of the barrel of “information I would never trust”, Epoch Times is the bottom of a hole near the Earth’s molten core.

I don’t think I said I would never trust it. If I want more information about a topic, I may dig around and see what the others say about it as well, and that includes CNN, MSNBC, and the rest. Those Democrat outlets often have a snarky tone and present information to mislead you, even so they may sometimes present extra snippets of information that can be useful. But normally, I don’t have time to go around and see what everyone says about every single topic and probably most folds don’t either. I find EpochTimes present different opinions about the same topics, some of which I categorically reject, so it’s enough variety for me on a normal news-cycle day.

[Poundsand]

@jotham

The legislative body of those 7 states conjointly sent dual slates

I believe this is false - can you support that the alternate slates were sent by the state legislatures?

[jotham]

@Poundsand

@jotham

The legislative body of those 7 states conjointly sent dual slates

I believe this is false - can you support that the alternate slates were sent by the state legislatures?

This is an AP news source, I’m quoting the part you are concerned about, but the rest of their analysis is wrong, but no need to get into that.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-dueling-electors-explain-idUSKBN2712M7

It is theoretically possible for the governor and legislature, each representing a different political party, to submit two different election results, leading to so-called “dueling slates of electors.”
…

What are dueling electors?

States with close contests between Republican President Donald Trump and his Democratic rival Joe Biden could produce competing slates of electors, one certified by the governor and the other by the legislature.

[jotham]

It’s coming back to me now. The legislative bodies were technically out of session. They tried to reconvene in some states, such as Pennsylvania, but the Democrat governor, who has power to reject such, denied it. So they were unable to convene.

But the Democrat alternate electors for Kennedy in 1960 were in the same boat, and eventually, Nixon chose the Democrat slate.

[Poundsand]

“could produce…”

So… you didn’t find anything that said the state legislatures “sent dual slates” either, right?

@jotham

They tried to reconvene in some states, such as Pennsylvania, but the Democrat governor, who has power to reject such, denied it. So they were unable to convene.

So the take away is…? The official slates as determined by laws set by slate legislatures, and a bunch of randos claiming a dual slate, but not sent by the state legislatures, right?