The Easter/resurrection rumble thread [warning: this is a free for all]

#1

This is the thread for:

  • Historical and religious analysis of the Christian and/or pagan Easter traditions; any and all criticisms of the content of these traditions are entirely welcome

  • Historical, religious, and skeptical analysis and criticism of the Christian claim that Jesus was raised from the dead

The largest collection of freely available skeptical criticisms of the resurrection claim is here. Notable and commonly cited articles include those by Price, Lowder and Carrier. I encourage those wishing to criticize the resurrection claim to read these works and cite them accordingly if they are to be used in posts here. I will not be posting here links to Christian works defending the resurrection; if anyone wants them, they can PM me.

The rules:

  • No respect towards anyone’s beliefs (religious or otherwise), is to be expected, nor need be shown; personal attacks on the other hand will be dealt with according to forum rules

  • Use of existing material (online articles, books, journal articles), is to be cited accordingly (hyperlinks are not necessary); a short form of [author surname] [work title] [date] is all that’s necessary

  • Any truth claims made in this thread make themselves vulnerable to challenge or criticism; you are advised to check your sources and present your evidence

  • No truth claims made in this thread are obliged to use or cite any sources at all, nor are they obliged to present any evidence whatsoever; if all you want to do is express your personal opinion, go right ahead

  • Existing forum rules, and Maoman’s guidelines (cited previously), will apply

Cliff’s Notes version:

  • Say what you like about anyone’s beliefs but don’t attack people; cite your sources if you have any; you don’t need to use sources or present any evidence; expect others to disagree and challenge you; you’re free to express your personal opinion; obey forum rules & guidelines
#2

#3

Why? I’m one of the good guys!

#4

The most fucked up thing about Easter is an underlying transference.
The Judas element, one step away from Juden.
Good Friday, indeed.

#5

I like that. It’s religious AND a little scarry! :smiley:

#6

One of the things that contributed to me having minimal resonance with Christianity, was just the colossal…I don’t know, disparity among the various aspects of the Resurrection tradition.
On one hand, you have The Creator of Everything suddenly kiboshing 70-80% of what has been daily fact-based doctrine and governance for a couple of thousand years, right? I mean, that’s your New Covenant, si?
So this is arguably one of the most significant events in human history, man, bigger than The Flood, on par with Creation itself, and it’s manifested in, what…a measly 12 hours of physical pain suffered by a semi-divine being?
Are you getting my point?
I mean, if you’re talking about ultimate suffering as a symbolic gesture, well, sorry, but there’s so many other, infinitely more painful (in the truest sense of the word) human experiences that could have been chosen to make the point.
I’m venturing into some kind of fucked up areas of advocacy here, please bear with me.
But, you know, physical damage hurts, and I ain’t saying The Passion was a day at the fuckin Red Sea shore or nothing, but come on.
What about having a little kid die of lukemia?
What about losing a newlywed spouse to a car accident?
Auchwitz?
25 years working at FoxConn?
That’s suffering, man.

You know, it just seems so disproportionate.

It all seems to be conceived as a way to give 8-year-old kids the willies at Good Friday services (They stuck the thorns ON HS HEAD!!! Nails! THROUGH HIS HANDS, man!!!), more than anything else.
:idunno:

#7

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]The most fucked up thing about Easter is an underlying transference.
The Judas element, one step away from Juden.
Good Friday, indeed.[/quote]

OK, you’re shitfaced drunk right now, yes?

#8

That’s an interesting point. A cynical view is that they worked with what they had to work with.

#9

It all goes back to the idea of offerings and sacrifices. They do that in most religions I think. That’s how they make their money.

#10

No, the whipping, the thorns, the cross, the via deloroso, the tears and sweat of blood in the garden–all that and more were just the appetizers. The three days–from Good Friday to Easter Sunday–Christ spent in hell, suffering for the sins of all mankind. And being simply given over to Satin–who, of course, inflicted every horror possible while he had the chance.

#11

Oh, that’s much more reasonable, now it makes perfect sense. :unamused:

Sorry, OK, I get your point.

but it still sounds pretty stupid, if you think about it

#12

#13

:roflmao:

#14

Who can consider someone to be a serious person, a man of gravitas, if they still buy into all this archaic bullshit or worse, spend copious hours defending it. Methinks the religos doth protest too much. And yes, I would say this to your face if I was at the same table as you. Try me out next happy hour.

#15

She said Satin.
I’d have thought he’d have gone for polyesters.

#16

[quote=“the chief”][quote=“TheGingerMan”]The most fucked up thing about Easter is an underlying transference.
The Judas element, one step away from Juden.
Good Friday, indeed.[/quote]

OK, you’re shitfaced drunk right now, yes?[/quote]

Not even a motion of a way close to that realm. I work two jobs, and the only chance I get to get on a bender is Sunday after midnight until Tuesday at 1900.
Sorry to disappoint you in this regard.

#17

Except jesus is supposed to be god incarnate, right? So god sends himself to earth to sacrifice himself to himself in order to save mankind (who he is said to have created) from a system god/jesus set up in the first place? Can’t he just use his magic?

But thereafter, not all humans are saved at all; only those who believe this story are?

Makes no sense.

#18

Except jesus is supposed to be god incarnate, right? So god sends himself to earth to sacrifice himself to himself in order to save mankind (who he is said to have created) from a system god/jesus set up in the first place? Can’t he just use his magic?

But thereafter, not all humans are saved at all; only those who believe this story are?

Makes no sense.[/quote]

Not in your version, because it’s inaccurate.
Most Christian doctrines hinge eternal rewards NOT on “belief” in anything, but rather in repenting of your personal transgressions and requesting forgiveness therefor.
I don’t recall any versions of Christianity where simple belief in Jesus’ sacrifice was all that was required.
But, you know, I defer to the Mod, whose knowledge on this matter, as in so many others, is, well, encyclopaedic.

#19

Yes, that’s more accurate. But belief in the story is still a prerequisite to feeling the need to confess and seek forgiveness.

#20

Christians believe that even the devil (not satin, nor polyester-- :doh: ) believes in Jesus. Believing in Jesus doesn’t make you a Christian.