Wow, lots of totalitarian apologisming going on in this thread. Your average PRC citizen may be much better off materially these days, but mentally? Spiritually? I think not.
1 Like
To qualify that, at least people in tier 1,2,3 Cities with hukou in those cities are having a gay old time. Order a TV, get it installed in a hour. Pina coladas delivered to your apartment at three in the morning. AI, Iot, ar, holograms etc etc. The pace of innovation is wild and people’s quality of life and spending power has skyrocketed
But a lot of this tech relies on having a non-hukou waidiren underclass with no labor rights who are basically living in servitude.
We don’t want to replicate that aspect, but the spirit of innovation should be studied
Sounds a lot like major cities in the United States, only the people in China are more excited because all this shit is still pretty new to them.
It’s not. US isn’t like that
1 Like
To be fair, the metal and spiritual health of people all around the world has been in decline.
But yeah, the number of people outside of China who are enamored at the dystopian circle jerk is pretty stunning.
The Economist ran an article the other day about how far behind US retail is to China in terms of innovation and experience. Which is undeniably true, Amazon feels dinosaur compared to taobao.
All the comments were accusing the Economist of shilling for CCP etc.
People don’t like feeling uncomfortable.
It’s good to get uncomfortable, that’s when change and innovation happens
3 Likes
The US and Western countries trounce China in quality of life assessments and I’d suggest that many things that work in China simply aren’t valued as much as other places.
I gather from your comments that you’re not an American and I recall that you’ve spent much of your time living in Asia, but I am genuinely happy incels in China get to share an AI girlfriend.
Let them watch holograms!
True. I was thinking in terms of the very low bar of being able to practice your faith, or in the case of ethnic minorities like the Uyghurs and Tibetans, even exist without being repressed and murdered by your government. I doubt those segments of the population are as impressed by all the new tech gadgets.
2 Likes
Sure, but it’s not black and white. I don’t want to live in China but their quality of life has drastically improved and in Western countries it’s declined. Being aware of that doesn’t mean you want to replicate their system
China is actually a very middling third world country.
GDP (nominal) per capita (October 2020 estimates)
46. Uruguay - $15,332
52. Panama - $14,090
55. Chile - $12,612
56. Maldives - $12,464
58. China - $10,839
GDP (PPP) per capita (October 2020 estimates)
53. Kazakhstan - $26,589
62. Argentina - $20,370
67. Mexico - $18,804
70. Thailand - $18,073
73. China - $17,206
HDI (2019 report)
54. Turkey - 0.820
70. Iran - 0.783
74. Mexico - 0.779
79. Peru - 0.777
84. Brazil - 0.765
85. China - 0.761
Life expectancy (2019)
48. Turkey - 78.3
51. Colombia - 77.1
53. Thailand - 76.9
54. Ecuador - 76.8
56. Sri Lanka - 76.8
57. Algeria - 76.7
59. China - 76.7
It’s not outstanding in any metric. It’s just got 10 times more people. Basically Latin America put together with a much lower crime rate. It is ridiculously overhyped by the West because most Westerners have only been to Shanghai and Beijing.
1 Like
I consider Shanghai Jingan or Xingtiandi districts to be Potemkin Manhattan. Everything looks and feels like the top tier of Western metropolitan civilization. Dining, shopping, technology, fashion etc. Except if u criticize the government on WeChat, you might get a knock on the door
1 Like
Tier 1-3 China is ok
Rest is shit.
China is run by a red mafia elitist class who have amazing lives and everyone else is 韭菜
…and when they decide you are sub-human or an ‘enemy of the state’, you are in very big trouble. You have no redress.
And even for people who live in totalitarian regimes, they often tend to finish in a very bad and very destructive way. Except for the USSR I guess.
2 Likes
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp
When my Realtor friend back in the Bay Area calls me and tells me that the Chinese he’s sold tens of millions of dollars of homes to start selling them to go back to the mainland, then I might give more weight to what you’re saying. Until then…
1 Like
Chinese don’t want to live in China. Make your money, embezzle it, get your family out and then start a new life in Vancouver or whatever.
Would say the main reason they do this is that the State can take their money at any time, rather than not enjoying living in China.
But both things are true, the rich want to emigrate and people’s quality of life has improved dramatically
2 Likes
And yet the numbers don’t lie. Underneath the carefully-constructed and delicate facade, China is still largely a shithole compared to the developed world.
But they have holograms and 1 hour TV installation. Now if they could just manufacture a television that doesn’t break after a year and have security flaws, that would be great.
Don’t disagree. Most of China is shit. Tier 1-3 is not too bad. It’s a shit system and an evil party.
But things still have got a lot better there for everyone.
That’s not really true anymore though. China is good at innovating and the good tech is good
Yep if you were Chinese for the majority things have gotten so much better for them materially. Which maintains the legitimacy of the regime and means that have a solid hold on power. Their comparable is so low that it’s almost impossible that their living standards have gotten worse for 99% of them in livibg memory…Except for ethnic minorities in the autonomous states and CCP ‘potential enemies’ like lawyers or religious types .
I also want to point out that the last time the West thought the world was being taken over was not by the Soviet Union. It was by Japan, which most of you must still remember vividly considering your age. In the 90s Japan’s economy size was 2/3 of US economy with only 1/3 the population and bought like the entire NYC, and Japanese companies were way more dominant internationally in their fields than Chinese companies now. Then of course they got stuck, but Japan’s run was so successful that even after 3 decades of stagnation it remains one of the wealthiest, most stable, and most popular countries in the world with very high quality of life.
That will not be the case for China when China eventually stops growing. It will be very, very ugly.
1 Like