The judges in the pennsylvania suit practically told the Trump team to get the f’ out with their nonsense.
The texas complaint was thrown out not because of jurisdiction, but lack of standing. With a lack of standing, they can’t really refile elsewhere. I.e
Texas can f’ off trying to tell other states how to run their elections.
Saying no widespread individual corruption happens isn’t covering their ass - it’s the position of every state, dem and rep, including super Trump supporters. And even most cases of alleged individual fraud presented in these election cases turn out to not actually be fraud.
I haven’t been following this aspect much. Heritage has a map, however no 2020 data yet.
However, Heritage states that they don’t include numbers until a conviction has been made. So, stuff like this aren’t counted yet:
State Supported Living Centers serve people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Brunner submitted voter registration applications for 67 residents without their signature or effective consent, while purporting to act as their agent. Under Texas law, only a parent, spouse or child who is a qualified voter of the county may act as an agent in registering a person to vote, after being appointed to do so by that person. None of the SSLC patients gave effective consent to be registered, and a number of them have been declared totally mentally incapacitated by a court, thereby making them ineligible to vote in Texas.
If someone launched 50 frivolous lawsuits against you, you would be crying right now.
Trump and his Trumpsters are launching frivolous lawsuits and coups against democracy, and you seem to be OK with it.
How do you know all the lawsuits are frivolous? Is it possible that some are not? The woman in Texas seems to be in hot water.
I’m not sure what is frightening about my hesitation to opine one way or the other. As for being sued, I’ve sued, as a landlord. I have also testified in Court bc of my previous job. Lawsuits don’t frighten me. Let them play out. I mean, not like anyone has a choice. They’re not going away anytime soon.
Johnson is one of 11 senators and senators-elect who have said they will challenge the results on Wednesday when Congress meets to certify Biden’s win. The states have already chosen electors representing a solid majority for the Democratic ticket; the process of counting the Electoral College votes in Congress is essentially a formality, but the Republicans in the House and Senate are mounting a quixotic effort to disqualify enough electors to throw the election to President Trump.
Neither the Republican legislators nor Trump’s legal team have presented evidence of widespread voter fraud, but Johnson argued Sunday on “Meet the Press” that the extraordinary effort to undermine the election is warranted by the tens of millions of people who believe that the results are unfair.
The astounding part was when Todd suggested that Johnson had told people about election fraud so much that people actually believed it. I mean, whaaaaaat? If only there were massive evidence of something like that happening in recent history.
Yes, frivolous - did you take a look at the links to the PA case? They’re not even trying to present credible evidence.
As for not forming an opinion… At what point are you going to be comfortable forming one? At this point, it seems like the doubters would doubt even if the almighty himself shines down on you and personally whispers in your ear.
Ok, I looked into that link a little. Because heritage used to be decent-ish, but they’ve become a tool.
What you say is not true. Not all the cases are convictions. Which should be obvious, given they claim 1308 cases of fraud, and 1129 convictions.
Beyond that, it doesn’t appear all the samples cases are fraudulent voting, nevermind proven fraud. Look at the first case in GA (I looked at GA, because that’s where I am right now, and a contested state) - it claims people voted from out of district. Um, ok. In the first election, some voters were incorrectly listed as being in the wrong district. In the second election, some people were sent the wrong ballots. That’s from the links they provide, so probably the most advantageous to their pitch. You going to accept that as freakin’ fraud?
The second case, none of the links work. And given the first case, we certainly can’t take them at face value. And their summary is it’s for providing assistance at the polls, to people who weren’t disabled or illiterate, because that’s apparently illegal in GA? There must be some context missing there from what heritage lists, because I’m in GA, and poll workers definitely help people that aren’t illiterate or disabled. But again, that sound like election fraud to you from what we know?
The third one looks like an actual voter fraud case, stemming from a personal beef.
So some seem like voter fraud, some definitely don’t. And they stretch back into the 90s at least. So maybe 100-150 a year on average?
Sorry, that’s not supporting anything other than the official position of every state - there are limited incidences of voter fraud, but nothing vaguely widespread.
I never said I didn’t have an opinion. I certainly do.
The point is that career GOP politicians are staking a LOT on their supporters firmly held beliefs on what has been up to now backed up by evidentiary thin ice. A LOT of people want them to keeping the ball rolling as well, which is curious and significant in itself. imho.
This other stuff, the just stop all the nonsense ranting is not even going to come close to deterring biased supporters from pushing this thing as far as it can go…I mean a certain summon got friggin impeached based on a lot of nonsense that was backed by a LOT of biased opponents.
I think this thread, like this attempted election fuckery, has legs.
Do the math dude.
The proven instances equal all them other numbers added together.
Well, nothing from the 2020 election has gone through the system yet afaik, and so hasn’t been reported yet.
Dude, I have no side here. I’m not pushing an agenda. I’m content to sit back and let the Courts play it out a truly fascinating situation in a truly fascinating time.
And to add to the ball of knots:
“Efforts to reject the votes of the Electoral College and sow doubt about Joe Biden’s victory strike at the foundation of our republic,” Ryan said in a statement. “It is difficult to conceive of a more anti-democratic and anti-conservative act than a federal intervention to overturn the results of state-certified elections and disenfranchise millions of Americans. The fact that this effort will fail does not mean it will not do significant damage to American democracy.”
“The Trump campaign had ample opportunity to challenge election results, and those efforts failed from lack of evidence. The legal process was exhausted, and the results were decisively confirmed,” he added. “The Department of Justice, too, found no basis for overturning the result. If states wish to reform their processes for future elections, that is their prerogative. But Joe Biden’s victory is entirely legitimate.”
Yes, if you do the math, adding up the non-convictions, it adds up to the headline number. So much for the claim that they don’t include cases until there’s a conviction!
And as posted above, it’s not exactly clear that all those are actually fraud.
As for having no sides, you’re certainly providing links from one side.
And that those numbers match exactly means what to you again? To me it means total convictions here, and then the breakdowns. Otherwise it’s a hell of a coincidence.
I’m providing links from both pro and con sides. Paul Ryan, a GOPer, comes out against what’s happening. That’s not really supportive of the GOP effort is it?
Meh, he’s asking leading questions. And I’d prefer the unedited tape. I am a bit skeptical of the slant the WaPo has towards Trump.
Looks like Pence is on the bus.
Later Saturday, Pence’s chief of staff, Marc Short, said in a statement that Pence “shares the concerns of millions of Americans about voter fraud and irregularities in the last election.”
“The Vice President welcomes the efforts of members of the House and Senate to use the authority they have under the law to raise objections and bring forward evidence before the Congress and the American people on January 6th,” the statement reads.
Buddy, no, there’s specifically a convictions line. Then some none conviction lines. They add up to the claimed voter fraud numbers. Which pretty much explicitly prove they don’t only list cases with convictions.
As for Paul Ryan, he’s pretty much irrelevant to this conversation. And btw, it’s not GOP efforts to undermine the election - it’s trumpsters efforts. ALL the gop run battleground states have shot down Trump. For all their faults, the gop establishment is mostly doing the right thing here.
I’m not going to debate this with you. Someone else can determine it. But in case you skipped the reading part:
The Heritage Foundation’s Election Fraud Database presents a sampling of recent proven instances of election fraud from across the country. Each and every one of the cases in this database represents an instance in which a public official, usually a prosecutor, thought it serious enough to act upon it. And each and every one ended in a finding that the individual had engaged in wrongdoing in connection with an election hoping to affect its outcome — or that the results of an election were sufficiently in question and had to be overturned. This database is not an exhaustive or comprehensive list. This database is intended to demonstrate the vulnerabilities in the election system and the many ways in which fraud is committed.
There’s a reason that this was leaked to the WAPO (and most obviously done by Republicans - pretty sure they didn’t invite aoc to that call), and it’s not because it’s fake news out to get Trump.
And Trump is not just asking leading questions - he explicitly says he wants GA to find 11,790 votes.
