Well, therein lies the problem.
The IFR for twelve year olds is 0.0036%.
99.6% of Covid positive people have zero or mild symptoms.
The UK govt found that Pfizer’s claims about the necessity and efficacy of their vaccines for kids were misleading, unfactual, unsubstantiated and unbalanced.
All that info is readily available on the internet.
No need for medical degree.
All I know is “doing my own research” on the internet isn’t enough to qualify me to be giving out medical advice that contradicts what every public health institution on the planet is saying.
And that figure is a worst-case view of the risk. A total of thirteen 10-to-14 year olds died in the UK “of or with” COVID during 2021 (out of 4m people in that age group). The UK government has already explained that, of those, most were in hospital for completely unrelated reasons and only a small number could reasonably have had their deaths ascribed partially to COVID infection.
Meanwhile, the risk of serious side effects from vaccination is somewhere between 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10,000, depending on how you define “serious”.
If appeal to authority is your only argument there’s nothing to discuss.
If it were one or a handful of authorities you’d be right. OTOH . . .
appeal to authority
You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
It’s important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence.
Many countries were recommending kids as young as 2 get one and then as quickly as they recommended it they recinded it.
All pandemic was recommending then recinding. Lost all respect for them.
Your position remains appeal to authority, in which case there is nothing to discuss.
I’m not claiming that the fact that every public health organization on the planet maintains that Covid vaccines are efficacious is proof that they are. My claim is that if I have to choose between scientific consensus or anonymous posters on the internet with no medical expertise I’ll choose scientific consensus until something better comes along.
So, what is there to discuss? Appeal to authority?
He’s not even appealing to authority, but to some completely imaginary people who agree with him. All of the world’s “authorities” have backed away from the “safe and effective” narrative. The US CDC is unwinding a whole bunch of their original claims about treatment, vaccines, fatalities, and prevention, and even getting their lawyers to tell lies in order to reframe the past. The journalists who inflated the official claims and relayed them (inaccurately) to the public have suddenly STFU. Those few remaining who still pop up on YouTube to rant about anti-vaxers are looking increasingly disconnected from reality.
It’s really only people like Emily Oster who are making claims along the lines of “We hope that all the false claims that we made and the unpleasant actions that we supported can be quietly forgotten about, even though we were right about everything all along”. People who are actually in positions of power - those who initiated lockdowns, censorship, deplatforming campaigns, and all the rest of it - are resigning/retiring, or retracting their original statements or (more usually) pretending they never made them in the first place.
I keep flogging this horse (Bourla would disapprove?), but it is important (and since we’re specifically talking here about “scientific consensus”):
The UK’s Prescription Medicines Code of Practice Authority (PMCPA) is the self-regulatory body which administers the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry (ABPI) Code of Practice for the Pharmaceutical Industry, independently of the ABPI.
The PMCPA recently (Nov. 26) upheld the complaint that (among other things) Pfizer misled the public about children’s vaccines. That peak body is made up of many scientifically degreed health experts, most of whom have also worked within the pharmaceutical industry.
Their “scientific consensus” was that Pfizer was completely full of shite, regarding the necessity and efficacy of vaccines for kids.
[And, as I’ve cited a million times on FM (therefore won’t bother again), the “scientific consensus” waaaaay back, was that numerous studies confirmed that up to 50% of people already had Covid pre-immunity, before vaccines].
One example of the bs that came from the “health experts” at the CDC, as stated by no less “an authority” than the US President. Stated that vaccines practically stop transmission and once vaxxed, no mask needed. Fauci said the vaxxed become dead ends for the virus. Maddow infamously repeated this nonsense:
All since proven false.
Sure, surrendering to authority is fine. However, there’s no need to surrender one’s entire intelligence.
I doubt anyone here has taken ‘anonymous posters on the internet’s advice’ and told doctors to shove their jabs and masks and statisticians to shove their modelling without doing their own research.
They may well have taken doctors’ advice who were not on the payroll of pharma or corrupt bought and sold governments.
Will you take boostaz4life?
Do you never envision a life without them and a mask as an appendage?
I guess you took every flu shot pre-2020 too?
Worse. I got my fifth, covalent booster and flu shot at the same time in September.
My motivation for continuing to discuss “your” position isn’t because I’m trying to prove anything or change anyone’s mind. It’s because I’m wondering what’s going to happen when the next pandemic hits so I can be prepared. Are there going to be large numbers of people then too with no medical expertise refusing to follow the scientific consensus on pandemic measures, causing chaos?
Trying to fight a contagious disease and a cultural war over science at the same time is going to be a real shit show and I won’t plan to be around for it.
Well, as you’ve been telling us that you’ve been doing, take as many of the “authorized” shots as you can. What else can you do? Mask up (Double? Triple?), stay clean, social distance, stay indoors, avoid human contact as far as possible, etc. Do all the things the authorities have told you to do. It seems like you believe these things are best for you, so just do those same things, but again. It sounds like you’ll be really well prepared. I wouldn’t worry so much.
Possibly. But you needn’t worry. You’ll be authorizedly well-protected. You can watch “the chaos” go by, whilst you remain safe and sound. Shed a tear for the rebels? Maybe say a prayer (have a beer?) for the poor fools who didn’t follow the “authorities?”
With any luck, the herd will be culled and then you can enjoy the world without having to deal with the errant ones who ruined everything for the vaxxed.
I’m going to get the hell outta Dodge until all the people who refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated contract Ebola-25 and die off. I’ll be so far off the grid with my own, self-sufficient food supply that I won’t know what year it is.
That sounds awesome! Good luck with it all.
So what’s your gameplan when the next pandemic hits? Diet and exercise?
Sure! Those things are great to help prevent illness.
But I’d only implement them because authorities such as the CDC recommend it:
Obesity, Race/Ethnicity, and COVID-19 | Overweight & Obesity | CDC.
"Obesity worsens outcomes from COVID-19… Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic."
“Access to healthy, affordable foods and beverages, and access to safe and convenient places for physical activity can all impact obesity.”
If the CDC didn’t recommend that good diet and exercise might help me, I probably wouldn’t bother. They are a good authority.
Other than that, if you’re outta Dodge, then don’t worry so much about the fools who don’t follow all the advice of the CDC. They’ll be dead, you’ll be fine. You’ll have the world to yourself and the select smart ones who took all the recommended and authorized shots.
It was/is a pseudo - pandemic racket.
And I would hedge a bet the Spanish Flu was not what they claimed it was.