that poem is in my box in my guitar room. i’ll dig that out tomorrow and post it. the name of the poem is “Holy Girl”.
How could I have missed this thread earlier? Hmmm. Where to start…?
Summing up, some people advise you to give up on church because God is a myth, religion parasitical, etc. This is all true, and perhaps a few people will follow this advice, but for the most part people keep patronizing religion in the same way that we patronize marriage. Something makes us. Maybe irrational of us, but that’s just who we are as a species. (I can name ethnic groups without marriage. Can you name an ethnic group without religion?)
By the way, early Christians believed in the Roman gods…but they believed that they were demons. Not so many of us really believe in demons anymore. Oh, some of us say we do, but if somebody thinks somebody else is possessed, most people will roll their eyes (and not in a demonically-possessed way either). But a whole lot of Chinese people believe in ghosts, which function like our demons in many ways.
Anyway, if you still insist on the church stuff, are we to assume that you prefer something from the Protestant evangelical side of the spectrum? Yes, many of these can be a little weird. I don’t know whether to blame the theology or the people, but you know what I mean. Do a little shopping, I guess, and avoid the places that look like they think the one true faith is something really strange. (I just got given pamphlets announcing all kinds of end-times disasters, like Jack Chick gone mad.)
70 percent of the aborigines here are Presbyterian, by the way.
Do check out the Catholic, Episcopal, and Orthodox churches, if for no other reason than to get a better sense of what this other branch of Christianity thinks their religion is about. Most of the Catholics here were born into it (including some of my in-laws), though a few churches attract some foreigners. The Orthodox are new, and are a mixture of foreigners and local converts. (Singapore has an Armenian church, which is different, so check that out if you ever go there.) One of the Episcopal churches has a mixed Taiwanese / foreign congregation. The “atmosphere” (for want of a better word) at these places is going to be a bit different from the one prevailing in evangelical (let alone charismatic) circles, though human nature is similar, and anyway they have political problems of their own.
I would also suggest checking out the Quakers. There are about twenty congregations in Taiwan, but only one of them is “unprogrammatic” (i.e., a traditional Quaker meeting style). This will throw your experience of your native denomonation into a whole new light, when you see it in contrast to other forms of Christianity out there. While I’m at it, every Christian should visit a synagogue, if you haven’t done so already.
I guess your alternatives are, do you want church to be dull (“Yea…”), or happy-clappy (“Amen!”), or on drugs (“ANTICHRIST IS COMING HUMAN WORMS!”)?
SJ,
great post. thanks.
i do wish the protestant churches could adopt some of the “mystery of God” that you find in the Catholic and Orthodox, particularly the Orthodox. Protestantism has become fast food, easy pat answer ,Mc Religion. there’s no awe. only answers which do not edify and leave the soul empty while the head keeps spewing out “Praise God” with an empty smile.
[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]
I would also suggest checking out the Quakers. There are about twenty congregations in Taiwan, but only one of them is “unprogrammatic” (i.e., a traditional Quaker meeting style). This will throw your experience of your native denomonation into a whole new light, when you see it in contrast to other forms of Christianity out there. While I’m at it, every Christian should visit a synagogue, if you haven’t done so already.
I guess your alternatives are, do you want church to be dull (“Yea…”), or happy-clappy (“Amen!”), or on drugs (“ANTICHRIST IS COMING HUMAN WORMS!”)?[/quote]
I want to know, how do I get in touch with the quakers in Taiwan? What are they called in Chinese, is it the same as the oatmeals? I didnt think Quakers exist in Taiwan, that they were confined to the New England area in the USA.
I dont see christianity as a religion as most people do however, I see it as a relationship with God… I think thats the problem with alot of churches is that they see it as a religion. You will be so much more free if you just trust in God and let go of any religious taboos…
Gweige?
Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.
Isn’t this an english language forum, it gets pretty annoying trying to figure out latin, if it’s meant to be funny … it isn’t any longer …
[quote=“rahimiiii”][quote=“Screaming Jesus”]
I would also suggest checking out the Quakers. There are about twenty congregations in Taiwan, but only one of them is “unprogrammatic” (i.e., a traditional Quaker meeting style). This will throw your experience of your native denomonation into a whole new light, when you see it in contrast to other forms of Christianity out there. While I’m at it, every Christian should visit a synagogue, if you haven’t done so already.
I guess your alternatives are, do you want church to be dull (“Yea…”), or happy-clappy (“Amen!”), or on drugs (“ANTICHRIST IS COMING HUMAN WORMS!”)?[/quote]
I want to know, how do I get in touch with the quakers in Taiwan? What are they called in Chinese, is it the same as the oatmeals? I didnt think Quakers exist in Taiwan, that they were confined to the New England area in the USA.[/quote]I didn’t know there were Friends’ Meeting Houses (Quaker Meeting Houses) in Taiwan. But they’re definitely not confined to New England! Every city in “old” England (and probably many in the rest of the UK too) has at least one meeting house. Makes sense as the founders of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) were English.
I believe that the worship style is a bit different in England to that in many Meetings in the U.S. In England it’s basically silent worship, and people just speak when they feel moved to do so.
Quakerism in the UK is very flexible and welcoming. Everyone is welcome to participate in meetings for worship. However, there is a body of Quaker theology, for those who are interested.
I’m not a Quaker, but I have a lot of respect for them. Apart from the inner spiritual values, they’ve also done some really good social work in the UK and abroad. The Friends’ Ambulance Units of the first and second world wars are just one example. They were conscientious objectors who nonetheless went onto the battlefield and helped many wounded soldiers.
I remember that there are about 20 Quaker congregations here, but of the programmed (i.e. “churchy”) type–with a minister, hymns, and so forth. Nixon was one of these, you’ll recall. (Am I giving away my age here?) There is (or was) a nonprogrammatic group that met in people’s houses. I’ll hunt up their number and post it later.
Theposter, Episcopalians are a mixed bag (or should that be “big tent”?) but some of them are like what you’re describing. Liturgical, identifying with church tradition that other Protestants neglect… I’m also a fan of Swedenborgianism (weird yet nifty theology, like an 18th-century anticipation of Mormonism), but their nearest church is in Australia.
Give it a name. Preferably with a fancy/schmancy ring about it. Bloat the feculant windbags with sheer hatred for any deviation from dogma.
“splittists!”
The gods/Supreme Power certainly have a fine, well-honed sense of humor.
Why else would she let the word be twisted and tainted?
For the Fine Farce Found? 
tonight before my show, i met this group of young people who were on a mission trip. they looked so tired of saying the same old thing everyday over and over again. but they “had to” talk the talk.
over at the bar was my new friend, L- the most sane person i have ever met. i’d rather be at the bar with L than at church with that group.
Holy Girl
a poem by Ran the man
I said you are my sunshine
she said Jesus is the Sun
I said you make me happy
She said Jesus makes one happy
I said when you go I die
She said When you die you die, but heaven awaits you.
i said “I need you”
she said you need God
I said I love you
she said Jesus loves me.
she Jesus-ed me.
she threw up the walls of jericho
I marched around them for 3 days
til the cops told me to go away
she babel-ed.
but her tower did not fall.
and all the world went up to join in her Godspeak
sufficient in Christ, she said.
yet, is she not woman?
flesh of my flesh, bone of my bones?
but she will have none of that.
she is a spirit
and all who know her must do so in spirit only.
it is not good for man to be alone,i said
you are not alone, she said, for God is with you.
i said i’m telling you my heart
she said tell it to a friend. perhaps they can help.
so i went to the pub
the stage became my pulpit
and the patrons became my church
i testified and sang the blues
but they were too drunk to hear.
so i put a rose under her door
and she trampled it underfoot
i recieved threatening calls
from concerned brethern
and we have not spoken since
the pastor called a meeting
to pray for my sin
but she was not there.
what kind of bat did she hit me with?
i saw her a year later
i no longer loved her
but she acted as if i did
she had her bodyguards
concerned brethern and sisters
who hid her as she walked past
as i sat on the church steps
and she never forgave my sin
she married that year to one of her bodyguards
they asked the pastor
if it was God’s will for them to love
now they are a dynamic couple
they travel from county to county
telling what God has done for them
i walk the same county
knowing what they did to me
i picked up a stone on the road
if it falls face down i was wrong
it did.
i looked at the grey sky
with the winter wind blowing the canes
as far as the eye could see
she was right
God loves me
1 Like
Good God, poster…that is some f–d up religion.
Here’s what my notes say for Quaker contact info. Hope this gets ya quakin’:
The Clerk, TTM
P.O. Box 13-106
Taipei
886-2-934-8643
awps (at) fwcc.quaker.org
[quote=“Chris”][quote=“Eros”]My opinion of churches is very low and I find the idea of any god absurd, but I have to take issue with this mantra being repeated here that many/most Taiwanese involved with the Christian religion have “adopted” it and/or don’t have a real understanding of it.
I happen to be close to a large number of Christians (through my wife who is Christian) and I can assure you they have a very good understanding of the religion and didn’t ‘adopt’ it - they were born into it (not much better, IMO, but that’s beside the point). None of them could give a rat’s ass about walking past a Buddhist (or other) temple. Their beliefs are in no way mixed or a hybrid.
It’s easy to hypothesize about these things but when you assume, well, you know…[/quote]
I don’t think I’ve met any Taiwanese Christians of the Han ethnicity (aborigines are a different story) who were born into Christianity; that’s not to mean there aren’t any. I’m only speaking from my personal experience. In Taiwan, where 93% of the population are Buddhist/Taoist/Chinese Folk Religion and only 4.5% are Christian (and a significant number of those being aborigines), it seems reasonable that the vast majority of Han Christians here are converts.[/quote]
Reasonable? Why? Are you claiming that Christians breed more than Buddhists?
Of course I have no statistics to prove otherwise (like your aboriginal claim) but why would you assume that most Han Chinese Christians here are converts? Do you think all the churches only went up shortly before your arrival on the island?
Wow.