This is the thread for people wishing to vent about religion (generally or specifically), in any way, shape, or form. If you vent gratuitously in another thread, and your vent is offtopic, your post will be moved here. This is not the place to debate the merits of any such venting, nor is it the place for defenses against the content of posts in this thread. This thread is not for debate. It is for people who have the need to say ‘religion sucks’ (for whatever reason, or for no reason at all), to do so to their heart’s content.
Hell is not all it’s made out to be.
Never been there…but I’ve been close enough to see it.
Never been there…but I’ve been close enough to see it.[/quote]
I hear you on that score.
Seen some myself.
My main point is that “Hell” as we’ve been sold in terms of The Lake Of Fire, and all other unfathomable discomforts the unbelievers shall unto toil, is a misnomer.
Jesus didn’t talk about Hell much.
That’s left to the civil servants. :woodstock:
The whole thing’s just a sham devised for idiots who believe in magic. 
That’s the way. That’s exactly what this thread is for. 
That’s the way. That’s exactly what this thread is for. [/quote]
I would like to formally protest snadman’s inappropriate use of that smiley to represent himself. It is thoroughly erroneous.
You can see, it looks happy.
Hm…it appears that in “The ‘religion sucks’ thread [lightning rod]” posting YouTube references to funny take-off on the followers of Mohammad is verboten. Even if it is contained in a compliment to a fellow poster person.
Funny that.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” - Seneca
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus
“Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?” - Plato, in Euthyphro
How about that? 
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Hm…it appears that in “The ‘religion sucks’ thread [lightning rod]” posting YouTube references to funny take-off on the followers of Mohammad is verboten. Even if it is contained in a compliment to a fellow poster person.
Funny that.[/quote]
Is it? Who said that? I haven’t touched any posts here. Chris, it’s good to see a more educated approach to criticism of religion, thank you. 
The attribution of that statement to Epicurus is uncertain, however. It’s already found in Plato, well before Epicurus, and is more commonly known as the Euthyphro Dilemma due to its attribution by Plato to Euthyphro in conversation with Socrates.
[quote=“Fortigurn”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Hm…it appears that in “The ‘religion sucks’ thread [lightning rod]” posting YouTube references to funny take-off on the followers of Mohammad is verboten. Even if it is contained in a compliment to a fellow poster person.
Funny that.[/quote]
Is it? Who said that? I haven’t touched any posts here. Chris, it’s good to see a more educated approach to criticism of religion, thank you. The attribution of that statement to Epicurus is uncertain, however. It’s already found in Plato, well before Epicurus, and is more commonly known as the Euthyphro Dilemma due to its attribution by Plato to Euthyphro in conversation with Socrates.[/quote]
So, which is it, iyo?
I think it’s Euthyphro. The attribution to Epicurus isn’t found any earlier than the 3rd-4th century Christian apologist Lactantius, and even if Plato’s Euthyphro is a literary device intended to act as a foil for the views of Socrates (or a creation of Socrates for the same purpose), the attribution to Euthyphro is still far more reliable.
I think it’s Euthyphro. The attribution to Epicurus isn’t found any earlier than the 3rd-4th century Christian apologist Lactantius, and even if Plato’s Euthyphro is a literary device intended to act as a foil for the views of Socrates (or a creation of Socrates for the same purpose), the attribution to Euthyphro is still far more reliable.[/quote]
Nice deflection, but you left a big rebound.
A)"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
B)Is he able, but not willing?
C)Is he both able and willing?
D)Is he neither able nor willing?
or
E) There is no god.
Since it’s a :discodance: free for all :discodance: , I’m going to do something on Sai Baba. As some of you may know Sathya Sai Baba died on Sunday (Easter) and he claimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. Sai Baba of Shirdi never talked about his previous incarnations, but he did preach love, forgiveness and all that good stuff. Both of these men/gods/reincarnationsofthesameman had/have millions of followers. These men performed their share of miracles, but I have noticed something that makes me less impressed than I previously was.
shirdisaigift.com/about-sai- … acles.html
I noticed that the list of 101 miracles has two that are the same. Numbers 27 and 95 are both:
“Baba slept on a thin wood plank with four dia on each side.” 
Now, maybe he performed the same miracle twice, but some of the other miracles seem more like parlor tricks or coincidences. So without good evidence, I am having a hard time believing in them. Check out the following:
- Baba extracted His limbs from His body. :s OK, THAT’S impressive.
- Baba knew feeding of dog by Mrs. Tarkhand. :neutral: I’m unimpressed. Did Mrs. T have a dog?
- Kaka Mahajani got his diarrhea cured by nuts. :eh: Maybe that’s impressive to you, but this is a single case of diarrhea in India years ago.
- Baba knew Cholker saved money by not having sugar in his tea.
When I hear the word “miracle”, I expect more than this. - Baba told in advance about meeting of two lizards.
If I were a lizard, I’d wanna hang with other lizards. - Baba graced Mr. Danu Anna with children. :no-no: Unless I’m sure he never got too close to Mrs. Danu Anna . . .
- Baba ate entire walpapadi offered by Mr. Hate. :aiyo: I saw a guy eat a 6 pound burger on TV this morning. His name was Mr. Love.
- Other saint caught Haribau and asked for Rs. 1 as dakshina, and his wish got fulfilled. :neutral: I wished for a popsicle . . . it wasn’t a miracle . . .
- Raisins became seedless for Mr. Thakkar. :lick: I had seedless raisins in my oatmeal this morning. They were just OK.
- Baba attended Mr. Dev’s dinner party as promised.
I know guys that have made it to work each day ON TIME for a decade. - Baba atended a dinner by way of His picture!
And I carry my wife and kids with me by way of My wallet! - Baba’s body did not become stiff even after 36 hours of His passing.
- Baba knew the past relation of Frog and Snake.
Don’t tell me! The relation was “Frog ate Snake.”
Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware you wanted me to address the dilemma. This isn’t my thread, after all, and I’d like to be respectful of your beliefs. I’ve recently been accused of deliberately suppressing atheist comments and refusing to let them speak in this forum, so I’m particularly sensitive of the need not to disagree with you.
[quote=“zender”]Since it’s a :discodance: free for all :discodance: , I’m going to do something on Sai Baba. As some of you may know Sathya Sai Baba died on Sunday (Easter) and he claimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. Sai Baba of Shirdi never talked about his previous incarnations, but he did preach love forgiveness and all that good stuff. Both of these men/gods/reincarnationsofthesameman had/have millions of followers. These men performed their share of miracles, but I have noticed something that makes me less impressed than I previously was.
shirdisaigift.com/about-sai- … acles.html
I noticed that the list of 101 miracles has two that are the same. Numbers 27 and 95 are both:
“Baba slept on a thin wood plank with four dia on each side.”
Now, maybe he performed the same miracle twice, but some of the other miracles seem more like parlor tricks or coincidences. So without good evidence, I am having a hard time believing in them. Check out the following:
- Baba extracted His limbs from His body. :s OK, THAT’S impressive.
- Baba knew feeding of dog by Mrs. Tarkhand. :neutral: I’m unimpressed. Did Mrs. T have a dog?
- Kaka Mahajani got his diarrhea cured by nuts. :eh: Maybe that’s impressive to you, but this is a single case of diarrhea in India years ago.
- Baba knew Cholker saved money by not having sugar in his tea. When I hear the word “miracle”, I expect more than this.
- Baba told in advance about meeting of two lizards. If I were a lizard, I’d wanna hang with other lizards.
- Baba graced Mr. Danu Anna with children. :no-no: Unless I’m sure he never got too close to Mrs. Danu Anna . . .
- Baba ate entire walpapadi offered by Mr. Hate. :aiyo: I saw a guy eat a 6 pound burger on TV this morning. His name was Mr. Love.
- Other saint caught Haribau and asked for Rs. 1 as dakshina, and his wish got fulfilled. :neutral: I wished for a popsicle . . . it wasn’t a miracle . . .
- Raisins became seedless for Mr. Thakkar. :lick: I had seedless raisins in my oatmeal this morning. They were just OK.
- Baba attended Mr. Dev’s dinner party as promised. I know guys that have made it to work each day ON TIME for a decade.
- Baba atended a dinner by way of His picture! And I carry my wife and kids with me by way of My wallet!
- Baba’s body did not become stiff even after 36 hours of His passing.
- Baba knew the past relation of Frog and Snake. Don’t tell me! The relation was “Frog ate Snake.”
[/quote]
Yeah, I ain’t buying it, man.
Big whoop, you and me know guys who could all of those on a given Friday night after a couple of Kirins (tall).
Let me see the guy get a 7-10 split off a cranker ball twice in one game, now that’s a miracle…
I once managed to get into the Flora Expo after 9:00pm.
Bow before Me.
Oh I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware you wanted me to address the dilemma. This isn’t my thread, after all, and I’d like to be respectful of your beliefs. I’ve recently been accused of deliberately suppressing atheist comments and refusing to let them speak in this forum, so I’m particularly sensitive of the need not to disagree with you.[/quote]
By all means, wax on. I am genuinely interested in your take on it.
How about this: Drunks need more and more alcohol to achieve alcohol’s desired effect, as do addicts with their drug of choice. We build immunities to all sorts of shit. That’s called evolution. Scientifically verifiable proof of it. How can you face such contradiction and still have “faith”? U are obviously an intelligent guy and kudos for sticking to your guns so erstwhiley. But as much as you would love to turn this entire community into worshippers of your Word, I and many like me would love to convert you to the truth and logic that befits your IQ.
Was there no mention of Sai Baba’s hair? I thought that was at least bordering on miraculous for an Indian.
HG