[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]I’ll say it one more time.
Kids are not pets.[/quote]
No, they are far more important(to us) is what they are. That makes jimi’s point that much more disturbing.
marb[/quote]
But what the both of you are doing is being so high and mighty that you think you know what everyone else should do. Nobody should waste time having kids, because there are kids dying? What are you doing? Don’t you raise money to buy airplane tickets to send dogs to Canada or something like that? Do you think your dogs are more important than some kid who died because nobody adopted him?
I know that’s a ridiculous charge to make at anybody, but it doesn’t stop you. Just get off your high horse.
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”][quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]I’ll say it one more time.
Kids are not pets.[/quote]
No, they are far more important(to us) is what they are. That makes jimi’s point that much more disturbing.
marb[/quote]
But what the both of you are doing is being so high and mighty that you think you know what everyone else should do. Nobody should waste time having kids, because there are kids dying? What are you doing? Don’t you raise money to buy airplane tickets to send dogs to Canada or something like that? Do you think your dogs are more important than some kid who died because nobody adopted him?
I know that’s a ridiculous charge to make at anybody, but it doesn’t stop you. Just get off your high horse.[/quote]
And that is exactly the expected response: “get off your high horse.”
Working for other causes (helping dogs, whales, reefs, bears, younameit, etc…) doesn’t add to other problems we have in our society. It’s working towards solving one of many problems. You need to make that distinction before you question such endeavor side by side with practices that actually do contribute to a problem, IMO.
marboulette
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”] Do you think your dogs are more important than some kid who died because nobody adopted him?
[/quote]Of course not. But if you add the dogs, the whales, the scorpions, the wolves, the frogs, the reef, the salmon, the lions, the elephants, the possoms, etc, etc, etc, etc. It does start to sound more important than just the dogs, doesn’t it? It’s my opinion that if all the goodwill in the world was invested in only helping people at the moment, the world would fall to pieces. All good causes worth working for, IMO.
marb
That’s exactly what I am saying.
That’s exactly what I am saying.[/quote]If I’m getting this right, you are saying that helping dogs instead of helping these dying kids only contributes to a problem we have in our society? And where does procreating instead of homing these dying kids fit into that? I’m afraid you wold have to expand on that, Good Dr. Otherwise I’m calling that one a miss.
marboulette
That’s exactly what I am saying.[/quote]If I’m getting this right, you are saying that helping dogs instead of helping these dying kids only contributes to a problem we have in our society? And where does procreating instead of homing these dying kids fit into that? I’m afraid you wold have to expand on that, Good Dr. Otherwise I’m calling that one a miss.
marboulette[/quote]
What I was saying was intentionally ridiculous, as an example of what you are saying. Do you really want nobody to have kids?
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”]
Do you really want nobody to have kids?[/quote]
Of course not. It would be nice if people who plan to form a family would consider adopting first, though. Is that really all that ridiculous to you?
marb
[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]
Do you really want nobody to have kids?[/quote]
Of course not. It would be nice if people who plan to form a family would consider adopting first, though. Is that really all that ridiculous to you?
marb[/quote]
Fine here. That is a decision that people should make for themselves. You cannot make it for them.
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”][quote=“marboulette”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]
Do you really want nobody to have kids?[/quote]
Of course not. It would be nice if people who plan to form a family would consider adopting first, though. Is that really all that ridiculous to you?
marb[/quote]
Fine here. That is a decision that people should make for themselves. You cannot make it for them.[/quote]
Agreed, but both decisions do not have the same repercussions on our society and in the life of a homeless kid.
marb
[quote=“marboulette”]Agreed, but it doesn’t mean that both decisions have the same repercussions on our society and in the lives of many homeless kids.
marb[/quote]
Of course, but I was just trying to say, that you guys were trying to make it seem like that if you don’t solve the problem of homeless kids in the world, everything else should be put on hold. People should not have families until every child in the entire world has a proper home. That’s what it sounded like to me. You can’t make me feel guilty for having a couple of kids. Maybe if I had eight or ten.
You and Jimi’s superior moral positioning doesn’t wash with me.
[quote=“Dr. McCoy”]
You and Jimi’s superior moral positioning doesn’t wash with me.[/quote]It will not wash with anyone.
The thing is, Doc, it’s not a superior moral position. It’s god damn common sense. Millions of kids will never have a family. We can make babies, or we can give these kids a home. That’s where the buck stops, and you damn well know it. You can feel guilty all you want. That’s certainly not what I’m after. I don’t have any kids, and I had a vasectomy for a reason. It’s not said that I will never have kids, though…
marboulette
People who have never made their own child will never understand what parents understand.
People who have never made their own child will never understand what smug cunts parents are.
Can you feel like a smug cunt if you have adopted? I don’t think so.
Thus: adoption is not a choice as you can’t really be a know it all cunt until you have impregnated or been impregnated.
[quote=“TomHill”]People who have never made their own child will never understand what parents understand.
People who have made their own child will never understand what smug cunts parents are.
Can you feel like a smug cunt if you have adopted? I don’t think so.
Thus: adoption is not a choice as you can’t really be a know it all cunt until you have impregnated or been impregnated.[/quote]
Being a parent has nothing to do with procreating. Thank God as it is, there aren’t only biological parents. (meaning that some “parents” aren’t really fit for the job, and a far cry from being “know it all cunts.”)
marb
Great one, Marboulette. :bravo: A lot has been said on this thread about primordial “instinct”, etc. Bollocks. It’s a (seemingly) rational choice that people make. We are not trees, flowers, wolves or cockroaches.
I suppose that it ultimately boils down to emotion and incomprehension of the dynamics of nature. People have their “own” kids because the process stuns, astounds and mystifies them. “Oh look, she’s got my ears!” Mind-boggling stuff. “I made this!” Breath-taking in it’s complexity.
Mr TomHill, Mr/Ms Jaboney, Ms Buttercup and Mr/Ms redwagon have attempted to answer my question. Even Mr Fluffy’s biological determinism contains some salience. Mr Maoman has accused me of being “disingenious” because my OP was a tad loaded. I would like to hear from you gentle people who have your “own” children. Why did you decide to procreate? Before you slam me, hear me out. No emotional screeching, please. What was your fundamental motivation to have children?
Humans are not at the top of the evolutionary ladder. There is no such hierarchy in evolution. Evolution is a process that has not stopped with us, and it is a conceit to think that we are the best thing ever. Whose standards are we to judge that by, anyway?
Selfishness is a trait that maintains the gene that promotes it. One theory has it that the immortal genes themselves should be the ones declared as selfish, not the mortal body that carries them. (The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins) But it is not 'selfish in a moral sense, but ‘selfish’ in the sense whereby those genes that do act in concert with others in such a way that they survive longer are the ones that DO survive longest. The same thing can be said of people. Is this selfishness?
see here.
I expected more from you than biological determinism, Mr Urodacus. Procreation is a concious choice that people make, not some subconcious, primordial drive.
the procreative urge is a deep, primal force. We are not so far removed from our animal ancestors that we have wiped that urge from our instincts, no matter what overlay culture has imposed on us.
hell, it doesn’t take much to get pregnant either, and I am sure that most children born into this world do not get conceived only after a long and careful deliberation of what is best for the planet.
To whit: The Meaning of Life, by Monty Python.
“Oh Dear, would you get that for me, love.”
Sure. Agreed. My issue is with planned pregnancies, though.