The Taiwanese Inferiority Complex

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
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Growing up in America I took it for granted that every country has hippies, hipsters and liberals who have issues with their country, but generally most citizens of most countries love and are proud of their country.

Living in Korea recently, people there are even more patriotic than I’m used to.

So coming to Taiwan, the incredible inferiority complex I saw here in Taipei smacked me in the face with how blatant it is.

“Made in Japan” or “Popular in Japan” Seems to be synonymous with “High Quality” and “Good” here.

In Shida, where the hippest fashion is, the cltohes are not Taiwanese, but lifted/imported straight from Korea. I literally walked off the plane and saw girls decked out in the same gear I saw in Korea.

I’m Asian American so I look local, but when I talk to people, even in Chinese, and the moment they realize I’m foreign, their eyes light up and it’s immediately like I’ve suddenly become cooler and better.

This shouldnt bother me since… I am a foreignor and this is to my benefit but since I’m planning on staying in Taiwan long term it’s a bit worrying. I love how international Taiwan is - there is imported stuff from every country on earth, people here speak amazing levels of English, and are extremely friendly, these aspects are all awesome, but no other country I’ve been in has had people who are so unproud, so insecure about who they are culturally.

Most taiwanese people assume since I’m foreign that I’m just passing through. When I tell them I moved here and am planning to stay here long term, I can see their faces change — they ask “Why?” – I say “Because I like Taiwan.” – but they don’t seem convinced until i give a 5 minute long spiel about things in Taiwan i like. At the end they usually still look at me like I’m crazy for moving to Taiwan from America.

Anyways, just wanted to put this out there – I like Taiwan but I really really really wish Taiwanese people would be more proud of who they are as people both individually, nationally and culturally- whether aborigine or Han Chinese, or Hakka or whatever, and stop thinking every single foreign person who steps off a plane is cooler and better than them because of the color of their skin, their funny Chinese accent, or the way they dress. That every other country(except the ones with those dark skinned people of course) is better than them. (I met a girl yesterday who prefers Canada’s weather to Taiwan’s!!! you gotta be kidding me!) and just accept themselves for who they are. If you can’t even respect yourself how will anyone else respect you?

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Yeah there’s a lot of people in Taiwan like that…but not all of them…you can find cool people who respect themselves and their own culture as well as those of others, it just might take some time.

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Keep it that way. The alternative DPP version will have Hoklo hating everyone else and creating laws that bar anyone other then HOklo appearing human.

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I don’t equate humility with a lack of confidence. I see it more as quiet confidence and definitely preferable to the chest-thumping “my country is so great” bs one has to put up with from some nationalities. I’d certainly take the stereotypical Taiwanese attitude over the stereotypical Korean attitude anyday :laughing: .

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Wouldn’t that be because things made in Japan are high quality? I’ve never bought anything from Japan that wasn’t. On the other hand, whilst things have undoubtably improved, Taiwan is still associated with producing crap. Coming here and seeing a lot of the workmanship here, I’m not convinced it’s unwarranted.

Why are you convinced that it is necessarily true that any particular aspects of a culture are necessarily worth taking pride in? I agree that it’s weird how Taiwanese have a fascination with foreign things and foreigners, but I don’t think they should take pride in the Taiwanese equivalent things simply because they’re Taiwanese. They should take pride in them if they’re of a high standard, and if they’re of a low standard, they should improve that standard so they can take pride in those things.

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Wouldn’t that be because things made in Japan are high quality? I’ve never bought anything from Japan that wasn’t. On the other hand, whilst things have undoubtably improved, Taiwan is still associated with producing crap. Coming here and seeing a lot of the workmanship here, I’m not convinced it’s unwarranted.

Why are you convinced that it is necessarily true that any particular aspects of a culture are necessarily worth taking pride in? I agree that it’s weird how Taiwanese have a fascination with foreign things and foreigners, but I don’t think they should take pride in the Taiwanese equivalent things simply because they’re Taiwanese. They should take pride in them if they’re of a high standard, and if they’re of a low standard, they should improve that standard so they can take pride in those things.[/quote]

My experience in Korea is – We’re going to buy korean products unless the foreign way or thing is (obviously) better. Koreans use korean electronics except when certain things, like a canon camera or the apple Iphone are clearly better.

My experience in America is more reasonable – We’re gonna buy things that are good and a good value.

My experience in Taiwan is – Foreign things are foreign, they MUST be better! I will only use or buy taiwanese things if they’re cheaper.

Koreans may be assholes at times but at least they have self-respect. And why should you take pride in your own culture? because if you don’t take pride in your own culture, try to preserve and promote it no one else will.

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Wouldn’t that be because things made in Japan are high quality? I’ve never bought anything from Japan that wasn’t. On the other hand, whilst things have undoubtably improved, Taiwan is still associated with producing crap. Coming here and seeing a lot of the workmanship here, I’m not convinced it’s unwarranted.

Why are you convinced that it is necessarily true that any particular aspects of a culture are necessarily worth taking pride in? I agree that it’s weird how Taiwanese have a fascination with foreign things and foreigners, but I don’t think they should take pride in the Taiwanese equivalent things simply because they’re Taiwanese. They should take pride in them if they’re of a high standard, and if they’re of a low standard, they should improve that standard so they can take pride in those things.[/quote]

My experience in Korea is – We’re going to buy Korean products unless the foreign way or thing is (obviously) better. Koreans use Korean electronics except when certain things, like a canon camera or the apple Iphone are clearly better.

My experience in America is more reasonable – We’re gonna buy things that are good and a good value.

My experience in Taiwan is – Foreign things are foreign, they MUST be better! I will only use or buy taiwanese things if they’re cheaper.

Koreans may be assholes at times but at least they have self-respect. And why should you take pride in your own culture? because if you don’t take pride in your own culture, try to preserve and promote it no one else will.[/quote]

how can they take pride in there culture when they don’t even know what the culture is?

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Korean also have big “inferiority complex”.
Just different to Taiwan people complex.
Korean people have to prove they are better than Japan.
Everything Japan do Korean must do better.
Because for 50 years Japan own Korea and tell them what to do.
So all Korean man super-macho like Rambo because he scared someone kick sand in his face.

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[quote=“sam_wong”]Korean also have big “inferiority complex”.
Just different to Taiwan people complex.
Korean people have to prove they are better than Japan.
Everything Japan do Korean must do better.
Because for 50 years Japan own Korea and tell them what to do.
So all Korean man super-macho like Rambo because he scared someone kick sand in his face.[/quote]

and that relates to Taiwan how?

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Aside from what GiT said - Taiwanese people are quite practical when it comes to shopping, at least - Taiwanese people don’t have an inferiority complex. What some of them have (by no means all) is a rigid conception of their place in the Grand Scheme of Things. As far as I can tell it goes something like this:

Americans
West Europeans and Japanese*
Taiwanese
East Europeans
South-East Asians
Anyone with dark skin

Personally I think it’s just common-or-garden racism, but with the odd twist that Taiwan isn’t at the top, but slightly below it. The relationship with Japan is … *complicated. You’ll find a few old people who loathe Japan and anything to do with it. Many Taiwanese recognise that, as small compensation for years of oppression and pillaging, the Japanese left a useful legacy (cultural influence, technology transfer, and infrastructure).

As for blind patriotism, I’ve got no time for that. Cultures all over the world have a few features they can be proud of, but 90% of what passes for culture (not just in Taiwan) is just a lazy excuse for bad behaviour and backwardness.

Sam’s not wong. I thought that was a pretty good point. You have the same effect in China; I’m sure a lot of what they’re doing right now has no other purpose except to pull a virtual moonie to the rest of the world.

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Oh, tommy, [color=#80BF80][personal attack removed by a mod)[/color] We had 8 years of DPP rule and none of that happened. What did happen is the percentage of people who identify with Taiwan, and themselves as Taiwanese, grew and grew among all ethnic groups. These days, even young waishengren call themselves Taiwanese.

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[quote=“finley”] As far as I can tell it goes something like this:

Americans
West Europeans and Japanese*
Taiwanese
East Europeans
South-East Asians
Anyone with dark skin
Canadians
Saffies
Canadians teaching kindy

[/quote]

Made a few corrections :laughing:

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Oh, tommy, [personal attack removed]. We had 8 years of DPP rule and none of that happened. What did happen is the percentage of people who identify with Taiwan, and themselves as Taiwanese, grew and grew among all ethnic groups. These days, even young waishengren call themselves Taiwanese.[/quote]

alright , if you say so, but i still say they have some hallmarks of ultranationalism, like that other infamous party the nazi ? OK shoot me :smiley: ( i know you want to)

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Godwin’s Law strikes again :smiley:

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Oh, tommy, [personal attack removed] We had 8 years of DPP rule and none of that happened. What did happen is the percentage of people who identify with Taiwan, and themselves as Taiwanese, grew and grew among all ethnic groups. These days, even young waishengren call themselves Taiwanese.[/quote]

alright , if you say so, but i still say they have some hallmarks of ultranationalism, like that other infamous party the nazi ? OK shoot me :smiley: ( I know you want to)[/quote]

Tommy, yes, there is a party in Taiwan that has a connection to fascism, that when it was in power suppressed other ethnic groups and made one language and one culture dominant, and does in fact have the word “Nationalism” in it’s name. Hint: it’s not the one you are talking about.

[rudeness removed]

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That would be true for most Forumosa members yes? How many of them have voting rights in Taiwan?

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[quote=“finley”]Aside from what GiT said - Taiwanese people are quite practical when it comes to shopping, at least - Taiwanese people don’t have an inferiority complex. What some of them have (by no means all) is a rigid conception of their place in the Grand Scheme of Things. As far as I can tell it goes something like this:

Americans
West Europeans and Japanese*
Taiwanese
East Europeans
South-East Asians
Anyone with dark skin

Personally I think it’s just common-or-garden racism, but with the odd twist that Taiwan isn’t at the top, but slightly below it. [/quote]

This could be it. Still pretty damn messed up.

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Hey, i was just reading the govt is considering discount airfare for taiwanezers to return to vote? Think I can scam me a ticket? I need to get back there for a visit. Where can i get a fake TAiwan ID card?

I can be tommy-wu-bai (tommy 500) or something.

p.s. I promise i wont vote, just wanna scam a ticket :sunglasses:

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Wouldn’t that be because things made in Japan are high quality? I’ve never bought anything from Japan that wasn’t. On the other hand, whilst things have undoubtably improved, Taiwan is still associated with producing crap. Coming here and seeing a lot of the workmanship here, I’m not convinced it’s unwarranted.

Why are you convinced that it is necessarily true that any particular aspects of a culture are necessarily worth taking pride in? I agree that it’s weird how Taiwanese have a fascination with foreign things and foreigners, but I don’t think they should take pride in the Taiwanese equivalent things simply because they’re Taiwanese. They should take pride in them if they’re of a high standard, and if they’re of a low standard, they should improve that standard so they can take pride in those things.[/quote]

My experience in Korea is – We’re going to buy Korean products unless the foreign way or thing is (obviously) better. Koreans use Korean electronics except when certain things, like a canon camera or the apple Iphone are clearly better.

My experience in America is more reasonable – We’re gonna buy things that are good and a good value.

My experience in Taiwan is – Foreign things are foreign, they MUST be better! I will only use or buy taiwanese things if they’re cheaper.

Koreans may be assholes at times but at least they have self-respect. And why should you take pride in your own culture? because if you don’t take pride in your own culture, try to preserve and promote it no one else will.[/quote]

The funny thing about this is that I think it puts a lot of people off Koreans and Korean products too. I was in Korea for a couple of days on a stop over once, though I didn’t see much (I was trying not to spend much money there because I was about to do a three month jaunt across Russia and some other countries). Korea is a place I have no desire to visit and I have an almost subliminal negative reaction to Korean products simply because I have heard so many bad things about Korean xenophobia, especially towards Americans (I’m not American), which strikes me as incredibly weird considering Korea pretty much owes its very existence to America. Sure, if someone gave me a free trip there, I’d take it, but I’ve just heard about so many places that seem a lot nicer so it’s way down my list of countries I want to visit. Before I came to Taiwan, I was actually researching different places to live in in Asia to teach English. I was basically looking at the fairly developed places. From what I read about Korea and Koreans’ attitudes towards foreigners, it was fairly rapidly removed from my list and I didn’t even bother looking at any job advertisements for Korea. Since I have been living in Taiwan, I’ve thought, at times, about leaving Taiwan, but again, Korea hasn’t been on my list at all because again, I’ve met quite a few people in Taiwan who have also lived in Korea and they’ve virtually all confirmed my impression that it wouldn’t be a great place to live as a foreigner. Also, I’ve met (actually, observed might be a better word) plenty of different nationalities in hostels and so on, and Koreans are undoubtably the weirdest and most anti-social in a weird way (they don’t get drunk and make arses of themselves like some nationalities, although I did witness an alcohol-fuelled fight in Budapest involving some Koreans and locals, but they do really strange things like take all of the dishes out of the hostel kitchen and hoard them in a private room). Sure, I’ve heard bad things about other countries, or met weirdos from other countries, but they’ve almost always been balanced by an equal or greater number of good stories. Not so with Korea and Koreans in my experience. Also, for all their supposed sophistication, plenty also believe in stupid shit like fan death. They strike me as a culture of cashed up rednecks.

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Yeah G.I.T. but (FCUK) the girls are cute !