I always find it interesting that the members of the right-wing propaganda machine (Fox, Limbaugh, etc.) love to rush to the defense of racists… oh, unless the “racism” involved is perceived as being anti-white racism, in which case they cry “Racism! Racism!” when there was none.
Speaks volumes.
Right…just like New York City and Chicago, Illinois and Baltimore, Maryland…yes sireee…plummeted they have…Oh, and then there is Washington, D.C…another paradise on earth…LOL!
Thats right…“Make them Laws TIGHTER!”…thats the answer…LOL!
I suggest you actually do some research and find out why and where the “gun deaths” have fallen in the U.S.A.
===============
A good read for those actually interested in some facts about this Martin/Zimmerman issue and how it is being used and abused.
In the Zimmerman- Martin case: What the Left wanted and what they actually got
Read this and learn something about the polarization that has been manipulating the U.S.A. aince…oh…about Jan 20th, 2009 or so.
[quote=“jdsmith”]
honestly I dunno, just was reading it in the news, from my own view, I think an analysis of audio played through one phone and another from another phone with the source of the audio coming from outside the house is not going to prove anything one way or the other.
Other related news, it seems the cops did want to push for prosecution. ABC News has reported that the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, filed an affidavit pushing for charges the night of the killing, but was overruled by the state attorney’s office. . Seems also Zimmerman has a history of violence yet, according to the Martin family were told he reason they let Zimmerman go was because he had a squeaky clean record.
[quote]Right…just like New York City and Chicago, Illinois and Baltimore, Maryland…yes sireee…plummeted they have…Oh, and then there is Washington, D.C…another paradise on earth…LOL!
Thats right…“Make them Laws TIGHTER!”…thats the answer…LOL![/quote]
Eh? Where in the US is it difficult or impossible to buy ammo? If you’ve got no shells to put in your gun, it’s just a lump of metal, and you can’t kill anybody with it. You can’t possibly assert that a complete ban on ammo sales would have no impact on gun deaths.
State rules are obviously pointless because of the difficulty of enforcing out-of-state trade - and in any case, most of the “restrictions” just relate to when and where guns can be carried.
That is certainly twilight-zone whack.
At the very minimum here one armed private citizen shot and killed an unarmed private citizen. That’s murder in every modern, advanced nation in the world.
Issues of race, intent and so forth might affect the seriousness of the charge ( 1st degree, manslaughter etc) or the seriousness of the sentencing, but why is there even any debate on whether he should be charged?
Unless the USA has turned into Somalia, charging him with murder is a no-brainer.
Right…just like New York City and Chicago, Illinois and Baltimore, Maryland…yes sireee…plummeted they have…Oh, and then there is Washington, D.C…another paradise on earth…LOL!
Thats right…“Make them Laws TIGHTER!”…thats the answer…LOL!
I suggest you actually do some research and find out why and where the “gun deaths” have fallen in the U.S.A.
===============
A good read for those actually interested in some facts about this Martin/Zimmerman issue and how it is being used and abused.
In the Zimmerman- Martin case: What the Left wanted and what they actually got
Read this and learn something about the polarization that has been manipulating the U.S.A. aince…oh…about Jan 20th, 2009 or so.[/quote]
New York has far less firearm deaths than most other states, and less than half of the national average when calculated per 100K people, so maybe the bans do work?
[quote=“Chris”]I always find it interesting that the members of the right-wing propaganda machine (Fox, Limbaugh, etc.) love to rush to the defense of racists… oh, unless the “racism” involved is perceived as being anti-white racism, in which case they cry “Racism! Racism!” when there was none.
Speaks volumes.[/quote]
OK, A) What racists are you talking about? Zimmerman? You KNOW without a doubt that he is a racist? YOU do?
And B) show me where Rush or Fox News is defending a known racist.
[quote=“Mick”]
Other related news, it seems the cops did want to push for prosecution. ABC News has reported that the lead homicide investigator, Chris Serino, filed an affidavit pushing for charges the night of the killing, but was overruled by the state attorney’s office. . Seems also Zimmerman has a history of violence yet, according to the Martin family were told he reason they let Zimmerman go was because he had a squeaky clean record.[/quote]
Well according to the Martin family, Trayvon was an angel and not the pot smoking, twittagansta screwdriver burglar bus driver hitting kicked out school youth he seems to have been.
I hate this kind of case, because it gets whipped up and thrown further and further from the truthful RECORD of what happened. Then when Zimmerman gets off, the black community has an excuse to burn down the town. The people responsible for blowing this thing out of proportion should be ashamed. :aiyo:
[quote=“cfimages”]At the very minimum here one LEGALLY armed private citizen shot and killed an [strike]unarmed[/strike] APPARENTLY VIOLENT private citizen. That’s murder in every modern, advanced nation in the world.
[/quote]
Is it? The laws concerning shooting are universal? Really? Florida has the Stand Your Ground Law and carrying a concealed weapon law, AFAIK. Read them and save your moral equivalency for something else.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“cfimages”]At the very minimum here one LEGALLY armed private citizen shot and killed an [strike]unarmed[/strike] APPARENTLY VIOLENT private citizen. That’s murder in every modern, advanced nation in the world.
[/quote]
Is it? The laws concerning shooting are universal? Really? Florida has the Stand Your Ground Law and carrying a concealed weapon law, AFAIK. Read them and save your moral equivalency for something else.[/quote]
Well Jeb Bush (who may know a thing or two about laws in Florida) seems to think the following (stolen from ChewEy’s post):
[quote]Former President George Bush’s brother is a strong enforcer of Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which allows citizens broad power to use deadly force, but says this law does not apply to George Zimmerman’s actions. The law removes the traditional common law duty that state one should retreat when threatened in public and allows someone who is threatened to respond with lethal force if it is believed that they are going to escape bodily harm.
But yesterday, Jeb stated that he does not know why an arrest has not been made in the case of George Zimmerman because the broad spanning law did not umbrella his case.
Jeb said:
“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance… Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”
Jeb also stated that the lack of arrest just does not make sense to him.
[/quote]
perhaps cfimages isn’t the only one in need of saving their moral equivalency for something else?
Zimmerman says he DID stop following Martin when the police told him to stop and was on his way back to his SUV when confronted by Martin.
INteresting article on gated communities:
[quote]“Be as paranoid as possible!”
The screed from our homeowner association manager arrived in our mailbox printed inside a cheery holiday border. The message continued: “Our neighborhood is as safe as we make it. Make no mistake about it, you must be on your guard! Report suspicious behavior or individuals that do not belong in our community.”
The call to arms echoed the strident sentiment of neighbors left nervous by the robbery of our home the day before. While we slept unaware at the back of an upscale gated community in Windermere, Florida, intruders came through the front door, took our big-screen TV, laptops and all of the presents from under the Christmas tree.
No matter that we hadn’t activated our security system and most likely forgot to lock the door. Hysterical efforts to fortify the perimeter were in full swing.
An 8-foot iron fence was installed to seal the breach in the back wall used to circumvent the electronic entrance gate. An evening patrol was hired to circle in our eight-block subdivision. The developer sent apologetic champagne, and the homeowners association sent repeated encouragements to “keep an eye out for anything unusual!” Heavily marketed as havens of prestige and a sure footing on the social ladder, gated communities in Florida also create an insidious fortress mentality.[/quote]
And this, which might explain why Zimmerman immediately called the cops on Trayvon:[quote]
[color=#FF0000]
"When you discourage drive-through traffic and pedestrians, it becomes abnormal to see someone walking[/color]
. And now you’ve created a situation where two people alone are hazardous to each other because there’s no one else around, no cars driving by, no eyes on the street, " Harris added.[/quote]
edition.cnn.com/2012/03/28/opini … f=obinsite
Zimmerman says… Zimmerman says…
Zimmerman said it, so it must be true.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“cfimages”]At the very minimum here one LEGALLY armed private citizen shot and killed an [strike]unarmed[/strike] APPARENTLY VIOLENT private citizen. That’s murder in every modern, advanced nation in the world.
[/quote]
Is it? The laws concerning shooting are universal? Really? Florida has the Stand Your Ground Law and carrying a concealed weapon law, AFAIK. Read them and save your moral equivalency for something else.[/quote]
When it comes to violence, anyone who feels the compulsion to carry a hidden weapon and the need to use it ranks pretty high on the violent scale, legal or not.
Something is very wrong with the law and society if carrying and using concealed guns is considered acceptable.
Somebody needs to call Colin Powell and have him give a press conference with photoshopped images of Zimmerman lying in a hospital bed all busted up with life threatening injuries. Also somebody needs to concoct a motive why Martin turned on Zimmerman while on the way to the store to buy yellowcake and “beat him within an inch of his life” and continued even after Zimmerman pulled a gun on him for self defense. That won’t be easy though. The only thing I can come up with is something along the lines of “because he hated freedom and self-defense.”
Zimmerman says… Zimmerman says…
Zimmerman said it, so it must be true.[/quote]
Well, Chris, I’m following the official record. What would you follow? Your heart? :s
Did you listen to the audio that TC put up? Does that sound like a guy hellbent on murder?
[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“jdsmith”][quote=“cfimages”]At the very minimum here one LEGALLY armed private citizen shot and killed an [strike]unarmed[/strike] APPARENTLY VIOLENT private citizen. That’s murder in every modern, advanced nation in the world.
[/quote]
Is it? The laws concerning shooting are universal? Really? Florida has the Stand Your Ground Law and carrying a concealed weapon law, AFAIK. Read them and save your moral equivalency for something else.[/quote]
When it comes to violence, anyone who feels the compulsion to carry a hidden weapon and the need to use it ranks pretty high on the violent scale, legal or not.
Something is very wrong with the law and society if carrying and using concealed guns is considered acceptable.[/quote]
Have you ever lived in a violent neighborhood/city where the violent criminal douchebags seem to be taking over and all you want is a fair chance to protect and defened yourself? I guess when they take over, you’d just move. Some people can’t afford to do that.
I think, as the Powerline guys do, that Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter, but if what he says is true, and what the EYE WITNESSES who phoned 911 says is true, then I don’t have much sympathy for Martin. Wannbe a gangsta, gonna die, yo. :loco:
There’s a reason I called this thread a “Clusterfuck.” There are many angles. Would either you or Chris be willing to speak out on Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Spike Lee and the BPP on their incredibly hateful and racially divisive rhetoric, not to mention their calls for violence? Hmmm?
Am I the only one who sees parallels between the Saddam Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground doctrine. Both are equally whigged out justifications for allowing some trigger happy Yank with a blood lust to project all his fears and anxieties onto some imaginary bogeyman – always one of color mind you – and pretend that by killing him the world is going to end up a better, safer place.
The bright side to all this though is the Saddam Doctrine has now predictably come home to roost and Yanks are preempting one another on the streets of America’s cities and towns. That’s as it should be. A taste of one’s own medicine.
This guy is enriching uranium in his basement…? 
It’s not as simple as that though is it … in practice, you can’t defend yourself unless you have eyes in the back of your head, an expensive ballistic vest, and many hours of target practice behind you. Even then, it’s only even odds. And what kind of person wants to live in a place where you have to (a) be on constant alert and (b) prepared to put a bullet in someone’s head just to save your wallet?
A gun in your pocket just gives you a very, very false sense of security. If your neighbourhood has really got that bad, it’s not a problem that can be solved with a gun - unless your plan is to do some targeted, large-scale killing. In this particular case, I still maintain this would have never happened in a society which considers private gun ownership an aberration rather than a right.
It’s certainly easier (for the politicians) to pretend that they’re giving people the “right” to protect themselves, because then they can avoid answering questions about why people need to protect themselves. US society does seem to place great emphasis on setting up and knocking down various non-existent (or simplistically caricatured) bogeymen.
There probably are occasions where guns are a solution. I’m thinking 1990’s Sierra Leone, where the right thing to do, no doubt about it, was to have a large number of well-trained solders shooting anything that looked like it was about to start trouble. Not something I could do personally, but it seems sometimes things sink so low that culling is the only option. The aim, obviously, is to prevent things getting to anything like that level in the first place.
[quote=“Winston Smith”]Am I the only one who sees parallels between the Saddam Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground doctrine. Both are equally whigged out justifications for allowing some trigger happy Yank with a blood lust to project all his fears and anxieties onto some imaginary bogeyman – always one of color mind you – and pretend that by killing him the world is going to end up a better, safer place.
The bright side to all this though is the Saddam Doctrine has now predictably come home to roost and Yanks are preempting one another on the streets of America’s cities and towns. That’s as it should be. A taste of one’s own medicine.[/quote]
Imaginary boogeyman?
[quote]
Trayvon Martin’s YouTube Background
On Trayvon Martin’s YouTube channel, two of the five videos posted are of teenagers boxing at his high school. There’s a tall teenager in a black and silver striped shirt who appears to be acting as a referee of sorts.
The cameraman on the first video says, “Watch out Trayvon, or I’ll slap you nigga.”
Here’s the full video.[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fvEZW8JJ9nU#!
That’s a far cry from this kid:
Funny how his Twitter account has been deleted:[quote]
Twitter
It seems that Tray was also on Twitter, but his account seems to have been recently deleted by his family or friends.
His screen name was “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA, as you can see from the twitpic account screenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat.
At first, I was skeptical that anyone would maintain an account with that sort of derogatory slur in the title, but after doing some research, it’s apparent that it was Trayvon’s account.
The account was in existence long before the shooting occurred a few weeks ago, and was deleted only recently, there are still dozens of references to @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA in google’s cache.
The associated twitpic account matches the account name and is still online at the time of publication. Most of the pics were uploaded months ago, so this account was associated with Trayvon long before the shooting took place.
Several of Tray’s friends have been very open about referring to Trayvon using that account as well. His cousin, who is quite active on Twitter, refers to Trayvon more than a dozen times using the @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA nickname.[/quote]
Now, again, did he deserve to die for this? No. But did he try and beat the shit out of Zimmerman? Better quality videos of the police video are out, and yup, broken up nose and a cut on the back of the head.
and
Video/audio news footage of the guy who saw/heard Martin beating Zimmerman:
myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/s … n-03232012
Sad situation. All too typical as well. But they insist on their right to have a gun behind every blade of grass and accept the fearmongering of their politicians as gospel, so I am finding it more and more difficult to empathize with the good folks from America. Kurt Vonnegut wrote a book in which all the guns had been smelted into a bell. Like everything else he wrote, ol KVJ was “bang on the money”. If the framers could only see what their well-intentioned rights would lead to, I’m pretty sure this situation wouldn’t exist. There’s no turning back now. But laws governing how automatic an assault rifle you can have and laws giving it s citizenry excuses for wasting each other like this abomination Stand Your Ground have gone even further into the nightmare scenario that I say here and now that America is best left to Americans. The rest of us can sit back and watch this cautionary tragedy continue to unravel like a hot blade through a golfball. What’s truly sad is what could have been if it weren’t for the right to bear arms. Ball game is almost over though. Bottom of the ninth. Oh say, can you see?
So it goes…
[quote=“finley”]
There probably are occasions where guns are a solution. I’m thinking 1990’s Sierra Leone, where the right thing to do, no doubt about it, was to have a large number of well-trained solders shooting anything that looked like it was about to start trouble. Not something I could do personally, but it seems sometimes things sink so low that culling is the only option. The aim, obviously, is to prevent things getting to anything like that level in the first place.[/quote]
Great post finley. I’m thinking 2000-present USA could do with a wee cull. If neighborhoods are so violent that you might be forced to cap an ass, then something is very very wrong.
So glad we live here.
[quote]
Great post finley. I’m thinking 2000-present USA could do with a wee cull. If neighborhoods are so violent that you might be forced to cap an ass, then something is very very wrong.[/quote]
Sure, how about culling the cities with the highest crime rates? I wonder if they share a common trait. 
America’s Most Dangerous Cities
10. Stockton, California
9. Rockford, Illinois
8. Baltimore, Maryland
7. Little Rock
6. Oakland, California
5. Memphis, Tennessee
4. New Haven, Connecticut
3. St. Louis, Missouri
2. Detroit, Michigan
Or maybe you another group of people you would prefer to cull?