This is why Obama can't possibly win

Disclaimer: I like Obama and would like to see him working in government for a long time and maybe becoming president in 2016.

Anyway, there was a stupid fake scandal where somebody said Obama didn’t place his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance :unamused: and in defending himself. Obama has the stupidity to say:

“You’ve got e-mails saying I’m a Muslim plant trying to take over America,” Obama said. “We’ve seen this before.”

What a dumbass. Every politician knows you don’t make negative statements about yourself, even if you are making a joke when you do it. That clip “I’m a Muslim plant trying to take over America” is going to get played over and over to people who never heard this stupid blip of a non-news story. It’s going to be on soundboards, in a rap-style political jingle played by one of his opponents, etc. What a tard. Obama, we had high hopes for you, please get some more advice about politics before you attempt to take on the big kids, thanks.

Oh sorry, here’s the link to the non-storyhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_el_pr/obama_photo;_ylt=AocblAsiWo7A6hF56soQlLNh24cA

Everyone’s bitching that politicos habitually lie and evade, and you’re giving the guy a hard time for telling the truth and trusting 95% of the electorate to understand irony? Anyone buying that Muslim plant bs isn’t going to vote for him anyway.

I trust you’ll never pipe up to complain about Hillary’s lies, evasions, and newspeak bs. :loco:

I’m giving him a hard time for not being more media-savvy.

Hasn’t anyone advised him not to do that? I thought the political world learned this lesson with Nixon’s “I am not a crook” - perhaps his most famous statement for the precise reason everyone thinks he is a crook.

We’re going to be hearing Obama saying “I am a Muslim plant” with a pissed-off look on his face for as long as he has some kind of political career.

Yeah, people that dumb voted Bush into office. Twice. :loco:

He won’t win, because

(1) he’s been a senator for what, two years? The only reason he’s even in the running is because he’s black (but not TOO black), and people like him. In other words, he’s the Democrat’s answer to Fred Thompson!

( 2) Hillary is like, twenty points ahead of him in the polls, and much better organized.

I personally suspect he’s really running for the VP slot. It would look kind of bad for Hillary not to pick him, wouldn’t it? The test is whether they can avoid saying mean things about each other.

By the way, he’s actually Baptist. He apparently experienced a heartfelt religious conversion (from nothing, not from Islam) which had nothing to do with political convenience. By coincidence, this denomination happens to be the most influential one among the black community. Jesus works in mysterious ways, don’t he? (Cf. his co-religionist GWB, who declared June something, 2000 to be “Jesus Day” in Texas.)

Could be; or it could be a preliminary run for a future election. It also greatly raises his visibility in his home state, making it unlikely that he would lose his senatorial seat in the near future. Or it could be a sincere run for the presidency this time – after all, when he began the campaign, he didn’t know how far behind Clinton he’d be by now. :idunno:

I think Clinton-Obama would be an attractive ticket, and a big historical precedent in multiple ways:
First former first lady in the presidency
First woman president
First black VP
First VP born to an African parent?
First VP to admit having used cocaine?

I’m not sure, but it might possibly mean a return to zero black senators, since he’s the only one right now.

Why the heck would any politician run for VP, except as a precursor to a future run for president? Most VP’s have little real power, and their jobs are to look pretty and be ready if something happens to the president. Cheney is the exception, as he doesn’t look at all pretty and does apparantely do other things, whether we want him to or not.

Yeah, that’s kind of the idea. First VP, then run for president later.

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]He won’t win, because

(1) he’s been a senator for what, two years? The only reason he’s even in the running is because he’s black (but not TOO black), and people like him. In other words, he’s the Democrat’s answer to Fred Thompson![/quote]

This has got to be the dumbest response that you’ve posted.

I’ve talked to a lot and I mean a lot of people who are supporting Obama(I live in Chicago and studying public affairs journalism), even those who knew him during his community activist days. Him being black isn’t the reason he’s running. What I’ve gathered is that he makes a strong connection to people, they in turn feel that he is strong in ability to identify what they want in a candidate and he is able to translate that.

Right now, Hillary leads 20 points or so, in the polls. So what. Now it’s a less than a year to election and anything can happen for both. I would be more concerned to see what happens after the Iowa caucus (which I will be covering) and the primaries (since they’ve been moved up in several states.) The polls after that should be, imo, a better indicator of where Obama stands.

Also, Obama has pretty strong media advisor-David Axelrod. Read up on him

Obama’s narrator

The Agony and the Agony

I sure hope not. He isn’t doing well with black voters.

From Roland S. Martin:

[quote]If the advisers around Sen. Barack Obama want to continue to delude themselves into thinking they have lots of time for black voters to get around to figuring out their candidate’s record on issues they care about, then the latest CNN poll surely must be the kind of slap in the face to bring them back to reality.

[b]There was a general assumption when Obama announced for the presidency that he was going to garner a lion’s share of the black vote. In a normal presidential race, sure. But with Sen. Hillary Clinton in the race, the reality of the affection – real and perceived – that black folks have for the Clintons is clearly what has her storming out to a strong lead over Obama.

According to the CNN poll, Clinton leads Obama among black registered Democrats, 57 percent to 33 percent. Black women are backing Clinton to the tune of 68 percent compared with 25 percent for Obama. Black men favor Obama 46 percent to 42 percent for Clinton. The poll has a margin of error of plus-or-minus 6.5 percent.[/b]

On multiple occasions when I’ve interviewed him, Obama has reassured folks that his track record speaks for itself. He says with Clinton being on the national stage for 15 years, she has longevity. But he said he’s confident black voters will come around the more they know about what he has done. That’s nice and sounds good, but what the Obama campaign has clearly refused to recognize is that black voters are emotional, and you must speak to their core in order to reach them.

[b]Obama has at times spoken passionately about issues blacks care about – the war, education, civil rights, social justice issues – but all too often he has avoided engaging in a way that touches the consciousness of black voters. Voters have told me that he’s sometimes sterile and not offering the kind of passion they desire.

But there are other reasons why black voters have been ambivalent about an Obama candidacy, and it’s clearly having an affect on him being able to build momentum to challenge Clinton.[/b]

Reason number one: The belief that white voters will not accept Obama so a vote for him will be a waste. Forget the fact that there are thousands of black elected officials in the country. African Americans running for the White House are not the norm, especially one with his credentials. This is a real concern, and one that can’t be overlooked and dismissed easily.

Reason number two: Obama will be “taken out” if he wins. The New York Times had a piece over the weekend where a black woman essentially said her way of protecting Obama from harm is by not voting for him. Sounds nutty, but again, it’s real, and it’s been said many times. I’ve heard this “fear factor” time and time again, and it speaks to the deep concern blacks have that America has not advanced enough to be comfortable with a black man in the White House.

The third reason: Obama the policy wonk doesn’t mesh with black voters. This is not to suggest that black voters don’t care about issues – they do. But Obama has a certain emotional detachment that has turned off many of them. You can’t find one major “moment” where black voters have embraced him and showered him with love. I was highly critical of his performance at the June debate at Howard University because that was his crowd. But he failed to ignite the room. One HUGE Obama supporter told me that his daughter went to the event backing him, and came out loving Clinton.

So what now, pack or go home?

No. He has an opportunity to make a move, but it must be done now.

First, the campaign must stop being afraid to put Michelle Obama on the road and let her rip. She has to be his major weapon in appealing to black women.

Second, having Oprah Winfrey’s endorsement is one thing, but they must get her on the road. It will also help if Obama touts other black women who are backing him. Recently, former “Young and the Restless” star Victoria Rowell was stumping for Clinton in South Carolina, and other high-profile black women have been out front supporting her.

Obama did just pick up the endorsement of Deval Patrick, governor of Massachusetts, and only the second elected black governor in history. Yes, he’s a former top Clinton administration official. But his state has a small black population, so that really doesn’t help Obama with black voters.

Lastly, Obama must forget the national polls and focus solely on South Carolina. Nearly 50 percent of the Democratic Party primary voters there are black, and research shows that 40 percent of black women haven’t made up their minds in the state. Even though research conducted by the Clinton campaign reveals that Obama’s message isn’t resonating with blacks, research done by the Obama camp shows that when black women have met and been engaged by Obama, he’s been able to convert them into supporters.

Bottom line: Low black support means Obama is toast.

If his campaign keeps playing it safe, hoping not to alienate white voters, he’ll likely be on the campaign trail next fall.

But he’ll be stumping for Clinton.[/quote]

Him being black-ish is the reason he’s IN THE RUNNING, not the reason he’s running. (Fame and glory, I suppose.) If he had been more white–with the same charm and political savvy–he wouldn’t stand a chance. He would be considered inexperienced. I suppose we could compare the situation to the pre-Clinton years, when both parties tried to “balance the ticket” geographically, except now the affirmative action is non-geographic.

I’m sure that black people will vote for Obama, but that’s not why he’s in the running.Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton could bring out the black vote too, but they would scare white people off. Obama has somehow managed to avoid that. He’s Bill Cosby to their Eddie Murphy (back when Cosby was alive and Murphy wasn’t doing Disney movies). Having a black (but not too black) candidate on the ticket may appeal to certain white demographics, such as the fabled soccer moms. Blacks will vote Democratic anyway (if they vote), even if the Republicans put Condi on the ticket.

Did you read the piece I posted by Martin? Obama is not doing well with black voters compared to Hillary. I think he provides some pretty compelling reasons why that is and how that is going to hurt Obama’s chances of winning the nomination unless he reaches out to the black voters.

It didn’t have any racist or baised points of view. So no SJ didn’t read it.

I did read it, and was interested to learn that blacks don’t like him as much as I had assumed. (I wonder if there is an inverse relationship between his popularity among blacks vs. whites?) Anyway, that’s about him winning the nomination, which I think is farfetched to begin with. (Hillary would basically have to die for this to happen.) But during the election itself, they’ll turn out. Not that the Democrats would need Obama to manage that, of course.

Obama has greater support among black men than he does with black women, the latter being evenly divided in their support between Obama and Hillary.

There is an intense conflict of interest among black women in seeing the first black president vs. seeing the first female president.

Some black voters don’t want Obama to become president because they fear the possibility of an attempt on his life, which I see as an emotive decision rather than one based on what he stands for and how the country could benefit.

:astonished: Cosby’s dead?! :frowning:

I just Wikipedia’d him. It seems I’m wrong. You may breathe a sigh of relief. Cosby is alive. (Maybe I was thinking of Flip Wilson.)

Hey hey hey…

[quote=“reztrop”]Obama has greater support among black men than he does with black women, the latter being evenly divided in their support between Obama and Hillary.

There is an intense conflict of interest among black women in seeing the first black president vs. seeing the first female president.

Some black voters don’t want Obama to become president because they fear the possibility of an attempt on his life, which I see as an emotive decision rather than one based on what he stands for and how the country could benefit.[/quote]

I can’t believe you think these are the only reasons someone would vote for a candidate. Bush has a horrible record on gender equality and reproductive rights but a lot of female Republicans still voted for him. There are gay Bush supporters as well. White women who are Democrats aren’t likely to vote for a female republican candidate just because she’s female. You’re making it sound like people want to see a black or female president more than they want to see a GOOD president.

I don’t think Obama would do anything extra for the black community, seeing as he wasn’t raised it it and doesn’t have a cultural connection. (which is probably why white people like him) How many black staff members do you think he could appoint before people started getting nervous that he was selecting them “just because they’re black?” One? Two? Try less than one.

I will be sick if either Hillary or Obama runs and loses and people say the reason is because Americans are sexist and racist. That’s just an oversimplification. I don’t think anyone will disagree with the fact that if Colin Powell ran for president he’s win in a landslide - he’s probably the least disliked political figure of the past ten years, and has more presidentiality in his baby toenail than Obama could ever hope for.

I think the Republicans should just elect Condi and get it over with. I have a feeling the Republicans will elect a black or female president before the Democrats do, if for no other reason than Democrats suck at running elections.

I sort of assumed they’d ALL be black, just like on one of those old sitcoms. Oh wait, you probably mean the STAFF staff–the cabinet members?

Not anymore, he’s too associated with the Bush administration and Iraq. Besides, I suspect he backed out of running for VP for a reason. His wife told him not to, he said. He’s probably been to the whorehouses or something, and they both know it’ll all come out if he runs. Heh, that means he learned Yiddish all for nothing. (Yeah, he really speaks it.)

That thinking is a reality in the heads of many black voters. Get used to it. Just because a lot of female Republicans voted for Bush doesn’t mean the majority of females will break with their traditional alignment with the Democrats. The fact that some gay voters voted for Bush doesn’t mean the majority of gay voters will break with their traditional alignment with the the Democrats. Reality is we predominantly tend to vote for people who are most similar to us, whether it be gender, cultural background, or whether the candidate will the one whom we’re most likely to have a good time with drinking beer.

Consider the electoral dynamic in Taiwan. Why do most Taiwan voters of WSR descent vote for KMT, and why do the DPP gain a proportionately larger share of BSR voters?

If seeing a good president was in the minds of many voters in the 2000 US presidential election, then why did so many male voters vote for Dubya in 2000? Because they saw Gore as a “wuss”, and saw Bush as more likeable and the person you’re most likely to have a good time with in the bar. That’s the kind of voting based on “liking” that brought Bush into office in 2000. Many people voted with their hearts instead of their heads in 2000. Imagine that had these people voted with their heads in 2000, where would we be today in Iraq? Would we even be in Iraq today?

Voting for Obama isn’t about doing something good for blacks or the black community in general. It’s about what’s best for the country, and charting a new course for the nation. I think most black voters are aware of that. But nothing trumps seeing a candidate having a similar ethnicity to yours, AND who also exemplifies sensibility and intelligence (at least that’s how many people perceive Obama). In fact, Obama’s centrist attitudes are more similar to Hillary’s, than with Edwards’ populism. Obama isn’t likely to make decisions based on passion or emotion; sentiments that one can exploit to rush straight into battle. Rationality is one of his strong points, and the same can be said of Hillary.

This presidential election shouldn’t be based along those lines. I sure hope this country does not do a repeat of 2000 where likeability trumps over sensibility, vision, intelligence, or experience. A Hillary vs. Giuliani matchup would really be a testing ground considering that both candidates have very high negative ratings.

Presidentiality? Try Biden. I hope Hillary selects him as her vice presidential running mate should she win the nomination. Biden’s resume is thick on foreign policy matters. He’s sensible in that area, experienced enough to avoid lofty rhetoric like “Dead or Alive”, “Axis of Evil”, or “Mission Accomplished”.

Colin Powell may look presidential and he has integrity, but he lacks vision and domestic ingenuity. No legislative experience being an example. He has no experience in working in tune with Capitol Hill.

Kennedy was perceived as inexperienced in 1960, but he was able to compensate for that, as evident in the “calm under pressure” rational approach he displayed during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Giuliani winning the Republican nomination would be a nice gift for the Democrats in 2008, considering that he turns off many Republican voters (including females). I bet that many female Republican voters will flock to Hillary in a Hillary vs Giuliani matchup.