Thoughts on the Tsai-Han-Soong Debates

Politics Taiwan Politics
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I won’t presume to predict what will happen in the upcoming election. But I have observed something over the past decade in Taiwan: if a candidate for a prominent position crosses the line into a certain level of badness (example: Sean Lien running as a candidate for Taipei mayor), people will notice and vote—or not vote—accordingly.

We’ll see if this pattern continues on January 11. : P

Guy

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42

Similar notions about Trump… fingers crossed.

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In the second round, Tsai turned Han’s four-character soundbite around.

2016: ku. KMT left her a bitter mess.
2017: mang. Everyone is busy due to changes in the world economy.
2018: fan. Tsai’s adminstration has started turning things around.
2019: luan. A once committed mayor named Korean fish leaves the city to run for president, and created divisions in society.

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If it is Biden or Warren, I predict Reagan-esque 1984 landslide for Trump. Only a Buttigieg-Gabbard ticket could appeal to the rustbelt but the Dem primaries will ensure the chance of that is nil.

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If you want to talk US politics, please go to an International Politics thread of your choice. This is about Taiwan!

Guy

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Shouldn’t this be addressed to @squall1? :thinking:

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I meant Trump 2016… everyone was saying he couldn’t win. Too ridiculous, etc.

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Forumosan fans of the debates (such as they are) may wish to check out Brian Hoie’s summary of the second policy presentations:

Guy

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Tsai on Energy Policy

  • Ma and Han had a joint press conference against Tsai government’s policies against nuclear.
  • Nuclear is more expensive.
  • There was a claim that the EU moved towards nuclear. Not true; what they did was respect the wishes of each country to use what they want. Germany is going nuclear-free.
  • We’ve established a foundation for solar and wind. Moving away from nuclear and coal.
  • International companies have come to Taiwan to develop green energy.
  • A lot of large multinational companies have requirements to use a greater percentage of green energy. Google came to Tainan because our green infrastructure was sufficient.
  • We will continue our green energy development. By 2025, there will be 30,000 new jobs from green energy, and we will a model for green energy in Asia.
  • Pollution was at its worst point under the GMD.

Han finally shared some of his ideas:

  1. Establish an ROC Sovereign Fund.
  2. Merge embassies and trade missions. There are about 200 of those around. Transform traditional embassies into economic and trade embassies, and give them pressure to bring tourists into Taiwan, and export Taiwanese goods into the local market.
  3. Establish free trade zones in Taichung and Kaohsiung.
  4. Reform laws to make them more liberal. Currently, a French graduate student studying in KHH has to leave the country once a year. Help new residents survive and create a better life for their children. [This should be of interest to people here.]
  5. Have government support banks, have banks support SMEs, and SMEs support laborers.
    Government > Banks > SMEs > Laborers
  6. Respect the Chinese market. When the GMD and the Mainland signed ECFA, the DPP warned that Taiwanese wages will be pulled down by mainland wages, and young Taiwanese would be sent to work in Heilongjiang. Ten years later, we know they’re all lies. China won’t be the only market, but it’s an important market. We must renew ECFA.
  7. Establish an Executive Yuan Innovation Committee, appoint an innovation chief for every ministry. Mesh scientific content and modern government service.

We need to think about the role of government. The government should be a chiropractor, to adjust the body here and there.

The smarts and the hard work of Taiwanese people are enough for Taiwan’s industries to naturally grow, take off, and become powerful. The government should be a good friend of enterprise, not a stumbling block.

Soong
Soong really doesn’t sound like someone who wants to win. He’s just a political science professor who’s goading the other two into directions he sees fit. His Chinese is also more difficult to understand, using deeper vocab. But one phrase I understood perfectly, because he uttered it in English: “Trustworthy and Stable.”

The role of government is:

  1. Determine the direction of policy.
  2. Allocate resources.
  3. Use human resources optimally.

He thanked Tsai for having him represent Taiwan at APEC.

The allocation of resources cannot be limited to political parties.

He warned Tsai that she is allowing factions to determine the direction of policy. [This sounds strange to an American’s ears, as the founders of America decided to let factions fight and offset each other.]

Crises that Taiwan faces:

  1. Environment
  2. Aging society
  3. Global economic changes that need adjustment. We need to protect traditional industries so the country don’t face an unemployment problem.
  4. Gap between rich and poor. This was the topic of the Nobel Prize in economics this year, and it’s also something we must face in our economic future.
  5. Value the humanities. Teach traditional Chinese values.
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50

He of course knows that he has zero chance of winning. I think Soong keeps running for two reasons: 1. Inflated ego. 2. To keep his party relevant (legislative seats) so the funds will keep rolling in.

I don’t find his vocabulary any deeper than the other candidates, but maybe his Chinese is a bit more difficult to understand because it still has traces of his native Hunan (Fulan) accent?

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Don’t compare the two theyre nowhere in the same ballpark. The establishment was against Trump. The middle class supported Trump, the Elite and Poor supported Clinton for free hand outs.

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Soong speaks on a more philosophical level, Tsai on a more technical/wonkish level. Han just spouts accusatory nonsense. And my specialized vocabulary is limited. I did take a class on reading Chinese newspapers, which is probably I can understand more of the economics language.

I don’t think “traces” of a Hunan accent I don’t think affect comprehension. Washens are much easier to understand than actual mainlanders. I’ve talked to mainlanders on a daily basis for a year. The plurality of Washens are from Zhejiang, and they don’t sound much like Zhejiang people.

Anyhow, Soong ends his paragraphs with, “President Tsai, do you understand? Mayor Han, do you understand?” I read some of his stuff in the Journal of Democracy while I was in college.

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Well I just did. Their appeal is similar in the sense that they talk and speak for ‘the every man’. I’m not saying they’re similar in every way. And I’m more talking about working class, not as much the middle class.

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Make that World Economic Forum instead of Economist.

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You did but you’re overgeneralizing and inaccurate. The DNC attracts more working class(inner city) and welfare recipients + a few Silicon Valley Elites and Bankers, Many Republicans are solidly middle class + upper middle class. The best argument you can make accurately is that Trump attracts voters from all classes. Upper Class, Upper middle, middle and some working in rural America. In Contrast the DNC attracts a similar number if not more of working class in all the Inner Cities of the US and as the middle class shrinks this increases the working class DNC voter base. Also the DNC is pro Large government like the KMT, DNC+KMT pro Central Govt Power.
DNC also has voters who want government handouts similar to Hans supporters and very much unlike Trump voters.
The Current DNC voter base in this way has a lot of cross overs with Han Supporters using your same model of comparison.
Of course my point is the US and Taiwan voter base/politics are way to different to overgeneralize like that but hey people love Generalizations today especially the MSM it dumbs things down and makes a us vs them mentality. But you wanted to go down that road.

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Dude my main points was :

as in he has a strong internet presence and die hard following. that’s it. He tells his people to wear a shirt a lot of them are gonna wear the shirt.
I’m not saying they are the same. Just that their appeal to a certain section of the working class and the way in which he speaks is similar.

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I could say the same thing about Bernie Sanders, and Andrew Yang, working class appeal. Then when you compare Hans support from Taiwans establishment and Media well Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden fits the bill 100%… The US Govt Establishment and Main Stream Media hate Trump

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this is getting a bit too into the weeds for me.

someone mentioned han’s followers wouldn’t lie about the polls. I was mentioning his followers’ devotion to him is so strong due to the way he connects and speaks to them and their economic hardships (similar to trump) that they just might. if im wrong then im wrong but the whole trump media establishment hillary biden main stream dnc handouts etc etc etc is a bit too much for me in this particular thread.

yeah how dare i

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does he help Maria become an English teacher?

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Better make it hot cocoa in this weather.