Titanic Anniversary

nytimes.com/learning/general … ml#article[/quote]

A lot of the bodies went to Halifax, Nova Scotia. and about 150 were buried there in various cemeteries. These graves get a few tourist visitors. But interestingly, one grave gets lots in the form of weeping young women bearing letters and flowers. In that grave is buried a J. Dawson, which is the name of diCaprio’s character, Jack Dawson in the movie.

Big deal. Ship sinks long time ago. Rich people die. Pretty boy stars in lame movie. Do people still care?

I have to agree with MT.

Yesterday was also the anniversary of the Hillsborough football disaster back home. As famous and as tragic as this event was, I wonder how many people (who were not actually directly affected by it) actually sit and reflect about that disaster only 17 years later?

It was a very lame movie. That is why I am amazed that young women cry over this grave. But I think your comment of rich people dying is a bit cold. A life lost is a life lost. $ shouldn’t factor into it. But incidently, the rich tended to get off her. It was the poorer folk who perished.

The sinking of the ship was world news in its day, and may be old news today for some, but we should remember the arrogance of the shipping company claiming that it was unsinkable. That led to a lack of preparedness on the ship for such an incident. Also remember the fact that a ship was near and didn’t respond to the distress calls because its radio was turned off. These things will not be repeated because the Titanic is remembered.

Jees guys, I just saw the pic and article at the bottom of a New York Times email. Thought it was mildly interesting especially to see the original headline and pic. I like looking at old headlines no matter what the topic. Oh well. :unamused:

Sorry Mucha Man, no offense intended. You’re right it is somewhat interesting from a historic perspective. And it makes a good story because everyone was so cocky and thought it was invincible and all these rich and famous people were all gaga over the ship and thought the party would last forever and they were wrong, nothing lasts forever.

Little Yellow Dog, you’re right that a rich person’s life should have the same value as a poor person’s life. But in this case, wasn’t it big news back then and again in recent years because it was about rich and famous people? If some rusty old trawler full of illegal immigrants sank, people wouldn’t remember it next year. But this was fancy ballrooms full of millionaires as evidenced by the headlines in the OP:

I don’t know who Ismay and Mrs. Astor were, but I resent the fact that people went gaga over the story, and continue to do so, because they were onboard and would hardly notice if it was some bum whose life has the same value.

Quite surprised at a couple of the, IMO, assinine and classist comments made on this thread about the aniversary of the Titanic Disaster.
And, was inspired to do a bit of researh to further delve into the background of these remarks.
Were they valid? Did ‘class perogative’ and class discrimination actually play a part in who died and who survived in this shipwreck of “Titanic” proportions?
I must confess that while I have had no more than a passing interest in the Titanic episode, it is an interesting scenario which has made for likewise interesting historical reportage.
6 or 7 years ago I was fortunate in being a peripheral player with a gentleman who was setting up a web site to sell items which were very exact copies of hardware, deck furniture, cabin appointments, table ware and other items made from the original designs and in many cases by the same manufacturer as that which was on the ill fated ship. Haven’t the slightest idea of what happened with his venture - he was attempting to cash in on the interest the movie engendered - but it was an interesting learning experience for me.

Among the information I found is a group of Q & A’s from a group known as “The Titanic Historical Society.” It lays to rest and explains the origin of quite a few of the myths that have grown over the years about the Titantic.
Titanic Myths
It seems that most of the ‘sensationalistic’ stories were the creation of the King of Yellow Journalism - William R. Hearst himself.

And from another group - The Titanic Society - comes an good article “The Titanic Numbers Game” which explodes the myths of elitism as a factor in the caualties of the ship wreck.

[quote]"…Mr. Cameron frequently compares the number of third class deaths with first class deaths.
To the uninitiated these statistics might sound convincing, but consider the following statistics from the Titanic disaster:

* The overall death toll was 9 men for every 1 woman.
* By percentage, third class women did far better than first class men.
* More than 5 times as many third class men were saved as second class men. (This was true even though second class men had better access to the lifeboats.)
* 75 third class men lived, 57 first class men lived, and 14 second class men lived.
* In retrospect, second class men had a 1 in 11 chance of survival, but third class men had a 1 in 5 chance of survival.
* Almost twice as many male crew members died as did third class males.
* The male to female death ratio for crew members was a whopping 233 to 1. 

The Titanic Numbers Game[/quote]

I hope these articles prove informative in removing the stench of class socialism from being a realistic point of argument in discussions about this trajedy.

Taiwan Cowboy, you are correct. I had always heard that more first class passengers survived than third, and that is true, but it is due to gender differences, not classism. Women and children comprised a much greater percentage of the total number of passsengers in first class than men, while the reverse is true in third class. Although more rich did survive, I was wrong to imply classism was involved.


[quote=“Funk500”]I have to agree with MT.

Yesterday was also the anniversary of the Hillsborough football disaster back home. As famous and as tragic as this event was, I wonder how many people (who were not actually directly affected by it) actually sit and reflect about that disaster only 17 years later?[/quote]

All the fans at blackburn and liverpool game tonight

Today was the anniversary of some guy getting nailed to a cross. (Maybe, I don’t know if the date is correct, probably isn’t, but it is a customary anniversary. And some people don’t believe it ever happened anyway.) Some things just don’t have a shelf life. Should we just forget the past and move on?

Thanks. Coming from you, I’ll take that as a compliment. :slight_smile:

I wonder how many forumosans remember the Egyptian ferry that sank just two months ago, killing over a thousand people?

[quote]Close to 1,000 people are feared dead as chances dwindled of finding many more survivors from an ageing Egyptian ferry that caught fire and then sunk within minutes in the Red Sea.

Controversy mounted over the safety of the 36-year-old ship and survivors blamed the captain for refusing to turn around when a fire broke out shortly after the vessel left Saudi Arabia with 1,300 passengers on Thursday night. . .[/quote]
khilafah.com/home/category.p … 28&TagID=2

Who do you think will star in the movie? Brad Pitt? Nah, maybe George Cloonie – he’s got the swarthy complexion for the part. How about the soundtrack, will Celine do that one too? Or maybe Britney, she’s hot!

Speaking of great ship movies, did you catch the movie on the sinking of the Dona Paz? They did make it into a movie, didn’t they? What, you don’t know what the Dona Paz was? Only the greatest peacetime maritime disaster in history. A ferry that crashed into an oil tanker in the Phillipines in 1987, killing some 4,341 people.
cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9809/2 … ines.ship/

What about all the other ferries that sink regularly in Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, Bangladesh and other such countries, taking down several hundred with each ship? How many of those ships can you name? Still don’t believe class has anything to do with it? Still don’t believe the Titanic is famous cuz it was full of rich, white people?

And another thing, if they made a movie about the Nude Swedish Oil-Wrestling Bikini Team, featuring a soundtrack by Celine Dion (in particular), and I was forced to listen to the soundtrack a few thousand times and everywhere I looked for the next few years there were news articles, magazines, books and posters for the movie, and at work, in stores, at the store, at home and on TV I couldn’t avoid the non-stop discussion of the merits of the film and how cute the star was and what did I think of this scene or that, I’d be sick of that too.


MT, I agree with you. I never indicated otherwise. The wealth and celebrity of the passengers made this a bigger event than what it would have otherwise been. When a famous person dies, more people will read about it then if some unknown person dies. Is it celebrity obsession or do these people just touch a much wider circle of society? I think both.

But another thing that made this significant was the company’s blowing about how the ship was unsinkable. It shocked the world, kinda like the Challenger blowing up. And it came out later in the investigations that many of the deaths were avoidable. That kept it in the headlines a well. But the famous passengers were a part of the everlasting fame as well.

Nobody ever thinks about the poor iceberg.

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Who do you think will star in the movie? Brad Pitt? Nah, maybe George Cloonie


Clooney was in a movie a few years ago about a ship going down. Bunch of fishermen who nobody ever heard of. The Perfect Storm(Based on a true story). So maybe it’s not just about fame, maybe there has to be a story there too(even though Clooney’s movie didn’t have much of one).

Sheakespere wrote “What great ones do the lesser will prattle” . I think it is understandable that people want a glimpse into the lives of the rich and famous. So much so that the Americans thought to create a TV show with that same title. A few years ago when JFK Jr.'s plane went down, what a media circus. But the media is only giving the general public what they want to hear.

How do you delete a post?

Just some another angle on the Titanic sinking…

[quote]Titanic Chivalry
by Carey Roberts

It was 94 years ago this month that the unsinkable Titanic collided with a North Atlantic iceberg. Of the 1,327 passengers on board, 73% of the women made it to the lifeboats, while only 7% of the men survived. That fateful night, the bodies of 702 men settled into their watery graves.

Within days of the tragedy, women set out to build a fitting memorial. First Lady Helen Taft donated the first dollar, explaining she was

And another angle, courtesy of theonion.com

[quote]World’s Largest Metaphor Hits Ice-berg
The Onion, April 16, 1912

Titanic, Representation of Man’s Hubris, Sinks in North Atlantic
1,500 Dead in Symbolic Tragedy
New York, April 15 – Officials of the White Star Line have confirmed the sinking, during her maiden voyage, of the R.M.S. Titanic, the world’s largest symbol of man’s mortality and vulnerability.

First reports of the calamity were received Monday at the London telegraph office of the White Star Line, which owns the nautical archetype.

Message from the Carpathia

At 4:23 a.m. Greenwich Standard Time, the following message was received from the rescue ship Carpathia:

Titanic struck by icy representation of nature’s supremacy STOP insufficient lifeboats due to pompous certainty in man’s infallibility STOP Microcosm of larger society STOP


It is believed at this time that upwards of 1,500 passangers aboard the metaphor may have perished in the imperturbable liquid immensity that, irrespective of mankind’s congratulatory “progress,” blankets most of the globe in its awful dark silence. Seven hundred more passengers survived to objectify human insignificance in the face of the colossal placidity of the universe.

Among the prominent passengers ironically missing and believed perished are New York millionaire John Jacob Astor, mining tycoon Benjamin Guggenheim, railroad president Charles Melville Hays, and presidential military aide Major Archibald Butt, providing further example of man’s inability to cavort with God, no matter how wealthy or powerful he may be, as well as the vast indifference of the universe toward even the grandest of human achievement. Late word indicates, however, that the well-to-do and the privileged constitute a great majority of the living. It could not yet be determined whether this betokens a form of maritime social Darwinism or a particularly overt form of social injustice.


Although unconfirmed as of press-time, it is rumored that the Titanic was proceeding at a rapid pace through ice-berg-laden waters in order that her captain might flaunt the ship’s great speed, making all the more ironic the demise of this paramount symbol of man’s hubris.

An architect from the firm of Harland & Wolff, which constructed the great metaphor, was stunned and aggrieved by the significance of the tragic event.

“I spent the better part of two years re-drawing the marble on the grand staircase at the first-class entrance until it represented absolutely the right dimensions for showing off the daintily luxurious evening wear of the wives of the industrial millionaires. Now that staircase will provide an entrance only for the plankton, moss, and other marine life that inhabits the frigid North Atlantic seabed. I dare say that is ironic.”


“Let us take a step back from the horror of the tragedy,” said Lord Peter Hothcrofte, a British naval historian, “and view it in terms of its grander significance. Simply put, the Titanic was more than a gigantic crystallization of the accumulated triumphs of 200 years of Western industrialization wedded to the firm but icy hand of Science triumphant. It was a ship larger than any ship need be, which therefore also make it somewhat of a hyperbole.”[/quote]

They’re making a sequel. I’m really psyched.

Titanic 2: The Surface