Titanium bikes: v-brakes or disc brakes?

Recreation Cycling
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TL:DR; should I get the cheaper frame with standard rim brakes and external routing, or the more expensive frame with internal routing and compatible with disc brakes to tackle Taiwan’s hills and mountains?

I posted here a while back about my search for a new bike (the post is ‘2nd hand carbon bikes’) and was originally intent on getting a new or second-hand carbon bike to replace my aluminium-frame bike.

Then I found out about titanium bikes and got very, very, very sidetracked, and now I’m quite intent on getting one. I’d like to try some bike touring in the near future.

Finding out about titanium bike models available in Taiwan, and especially for sale in Taiwan, has been a journey down a particularly deep rabbit-hole. The aluminium frame of my current bike is made by Performer: it turns out they also make titanium frames. I went into one Taipei bike shop that sells Performer, yet they claimed Performer did not, in fact, make titanium frames. Here’s the evidence to the contrary: https://www.performer.com.tw/leap/.

That was a bit discombobulating, as was a visit to a local Hasa dealer who similarly claimed Hasa don’t make ti frames. In fact, they looked at me like I was mad. Again: https://www.hasa.com.tw/product-TI-800-Frame-TI800Frame.html.

It’s all a bit odd, as is the fact that many of the websites for these companies are filled with dead links. My guess is, since most of these are OEM businesses, the domestic market is far from a priority with the exception, perhaps, of Rikulau. Fair enough.

Anyhow, I went into my LBS to get something fixed on my current bike and realised they had a Performer Leap ti frame hanging up on the wall. I asked about it. There’s a ‘basic’ (or at least, cheaper than anything else) frame for about 38,000NTD. They suggested they could swap the components from my current bike onto that frame for no extra cost–so long as the components were compatible. This appeals, because I’m not rich. But I ride a lot more these days, and after the last couple of years, for various reasons, I deserve something shiny and new. And I have a maximum budget of 80,000, although I’d like as much as possible to come under that.

(I asked the LBS owner about Rikulau, btw, and he shook his head with a horrified expression. Bad management, he said. Terrible to deal with, compared to Performer. His opinion, not mine. I’ve been going to him for ten years, and I never had the feeling he was bullshitting me.)

To my question:

The 38,000ntd frame (Performer Leap 1.0) is compatible with standard rim brakes, same as on my current bike, which is, er, 105 shifter on one side and Tiagra shifter on the other (Frankenstein bike). No internal routing for cables, etc.

But the Performer Leap 2.1, which goes for 46,000ntd, has internal routing and is compatible with disc brakes.

I’ve been advised I’d be able to handle the hills and mountains of Taiwan and elsewhere a lot better with disc brakes than rim brakes. And sometimes, after long descents down from, say, Maokong or Guanyin, I’ve had to stop and massage my sore hands from gripping the brakes on my aluminium bike.

However, if I got the Leap 2.1, which as I say is compatible with disc brakes, I’d have to get new wheels to go with the disk brakes, and that would push the minimum cost (Leap 2.1+disc brakes+new wheels) to about 58,000ntd. Also, I’m not 100% convinced about internal routing, and the 2.1 is internal routing only. I’m not convinced, because it’s difficult to maintain and potentially expensive to get fixed.

If you had to choose, which one would you get?

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Hi
I’ve been cycling Hsinchu County for 10+ years. You wrote “ more expensive frame with internal routing and compatible with disc brakes to tackle Taiwan hills…” this is wrong thinking. Low gears allow you to ride up hills. Get your low gear inch close to 20” your knees will thank you. Gear Inch Calculator Chart – Rivendell Bicycle Works

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Cycling up, yes, but what about coming back down? That’s when I want brakes. My bike has very low gears–nine cogs in the rear, three chain rings at the front. Going up isn’t a problem. Beyond personal fitness, that is.

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I’m a disc brake believer. For a road bike, disc brakes is a luxury, not a necessity. But it’s nice to have on long descents and when you need to stop quickly (while in a straight line). A small positive is if you ever are riding in the rain, your wheels will be fairly clean when you get back and only need a wipe down.

These positives outweigh the occastional brake-rub, additional home mechanic learning needed and higher costs associated. Labor costs should be in line with rim…except for when you need to bleed the brakes. Of course future components will be more expensive when you do need to change due to wear & tear or a crash.

If cost is a priority, then you should definitely re-think things. As you mentioned, you’ll be adding on NT 20,000+. But cycling is also about enjoyment and comfort which has a price tag as well.

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What’s the engineering advantage of disc brakes, in terms of hand force, braking force, heat dissipation, etc.?

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Couldn’t begin to guess. But the LBS owner suggested rim brakes are kind of on the way out-can’t attest to whether that’s true or not–but I’ve seen a few headlines here and there suggesting the same.

Personally, I’m hoping for something that give me more stopping power on steep descents and without having to maintain a death grip on the brakes for long miles. And whether it’s worth the extra financial cost.

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Some reasoned discussions about it here:

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I’d say disc brakes. Taiwan roads are steep, there are quite a few long AF descends, you’ll get caught in rain rather sooner than later and last, but not least, Taiwan is very very hot.

If you go for rim brakes, just use alloy rims. All of the above combined is a very bad combo for rim brakes on carbon rims.

Disc brakes also allow for wider tires, which are more comfy, roll better according to current knowledge and also give you extra grip and confident while cornering.

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I notice that I replied to you as if you were new to Taiwan, sorry about that @moonbase_starbucks

Check the Voodoo Juju. Titanium with fully external routing (probably better if you like to ride in the rain). Maybe their Taiwan price is lower than what the website shows in USD?

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That Voodoo Juju looks nice. But a little out of my price range, I fear: if I hadn’t found out I could get a bike built from a Performer ti frame, I’d have thought about a Rikulau Audax, for which I got a quote of about 75,000ntd.

If I had the money, I’d also consider a Chiru Vagus.

I think I just needed a nudge towards disk, to feel better about spending the money. If I don’t get the bike I want now, or soon, I think I’ll regret it. So disk it is, I guess. And, yes, as I have been finding out recently, during my very early morning rides, there are some very, very, very long descents.

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Another bonus to disk which I don’t think has been mentioned yet is offroad your rims can get wet and muddy which reduces your brake response substantially for the first (heart-stopping) moment or two!

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One thing I learned about shops here, if they don’t carry it for whatever reason (no market for example, or their distributor doesn’t carry it) they will say they don’t make any.

Going into shops in Taiwan has been rather frustrating. Better off buying it online. Best you can do is contact the manufacturer and ask them which dealers in your area carry the frame you want.

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As a matter of fact, I wrote to a couple of places. Bike Express Taiwan were really helpful. I also wrote to Rikulau since I couldn’t figure out if there were any places that actually sold their bikes in Taipei. They wrote back:

“There are still quite a few selling our bikes. But, the problem is, they don’t keep sample bikes. You can try Inbike in Hsin Zhuan (新莊), Froging (蛙不停) at the end of Roosevelt Avenue, BikeFun in Neihu.”

On my own, I discovered Auranden Bikes in Tianmu, who sell both Performer Leaps and Rikulau. But for various reasons it’s a hassle for me to get to there from where I am, which is why I opted for my LBS. I also came across a seller on Ruten selling various Performer titanium frames and complete bikes.

I also wrote to Performer directly, before I discovered these shops, but they never got back.

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It’s happening to me now with a specific tyre model and size.

Contacting the manufacturer may not help at all. Many of them won’t even look at you if you’re just a single end user.

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It’s why I ended up ordering stuff from taobao. Taiwanese shops, companies, don’t want to deal with you unless you’re a big fish, warranty in Taiwan is basically nonexistent. Risk is same for me basically even ordering it from china.

For a while I even ordered American imports from china because they have much better logistics system than the us.

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Just to catch up, and for the sake of the curious, but I had a Titanium bike put together by my local bike shop. Performer Leap 2.1 premium Ti frame, Avid BB7 disk brakes, Shimano 105 groupset and a free basic bike fit thrown in. The frame is slightly customised based on their measurements.

Believe everything you hear about Titanium; I came down through Fudekeng Cemetery the other week on that bike and it was like flying on a hovercraft.

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That’s the only way to go. I made the mistake of going up it a few years ago and was breathing in all the exhaust from fully loaded garbage trucks heading up to the mid-mountain garbage dump. Not recommend it.

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If I go up it, it’s usually literally before down, probably about 5am. No trucks then. In fact, I didn’t know about the trucks, since I don’t think I’ve ever been up that way after 7am.

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