To Move or not to Move

My wife and I are really struggling with whether to move to Taiwan or not (wife is Taiwanese). Currently, we live in New Mexico in the USA and my salary is 110k USD. I have a job offer in Taipei with a huge pay cut, 70k USD. I am wondering if the difference in taxes, insurance, and living expenses will make up for it or if it is an absolutely stupid idea. Wife would like to be closer to her family, but I am not sure if the numbers add up. We’ve been trying to come to a decision for a few weeks now but keep going back and forth. One day we decide to go, the next to stay. It is really driving me batty at this point. If anyone has any insight I would be extremely grateful.

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Objectively speaking, US$75k/yr. is a great salary in Taiwan. You’d probably be in the top 5% income earners in the whole country (based on my not-so-scientific estimate).

The cost of living in Taiwan is generally much lower than the US, IF you compare apples to apples. (A lot of Forumosans love complaining about the high cost of living in Taipei, but then you find out they are comparing it to Smallville, USA.)

Here is where the problem lies: If you’re comparing Taipei with a small city in New Mexico, then all of that goes out the window. Because $110k is also a good salary for NM, considering the low cost of living. You’ll need to take that into consideration.

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It is an excellent salary in Taiwan! I’m not American so I don’t know how it compares to a $110,000 salary in the US but I would hazard a guess that you would have a similar quality of life.

Also I think the cost of health insurance in the US (based on news articles I read) would eat into a large chunk of your $110k salary, right?
Health insurance is not a huge expense in Taiwan (or any other developed country but that is out of scope). So maybe look at your US salary - health insurance to get a clearer picture?

I’d just add that if you want to reduce your cost of living substantially (mostly rent). Then you could consider moving to one of the outlying areas of Taipei and catch the MRT to your office/job.

I’ve shared my, again, not-so-scientific salary guide before, and I’ll share it with you too. Take it for what it’s worth. Here is my guide:

Broadly speaking, a US$110k/year salary in the US is equivalent to a TW$110k/month salary in Taiwan, when you consider COL differences. Again, this comparison only works if you compare apples to apples. (i.e. do not compare Taipei to Smallville, USA.)

Some HUGE costs in the US that are insignificant in Taiwan include:

  • Income taxes
  • Rent (if you compare similar cities)
  • Health insurance
  • Transportation and associated costs such as insurance and gas (car ownership in the US vs. taking public transit/scootering in Taiwan)

Things that will substantially increase your COL in Taiwan:

  • Eating imported foods from the US/Europe every day
  • Buying imported consumer goods and electronics very often
  • Living in an unusually large apartment for Taiwan
  • Sending your kids to American schools
  • Taking annual trips to the US for the whole family

Try to avoid these “expat traps” as much as you can, and my salary guide above will be more accurate.

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Can you negotiate expat benefits like subsidized housing or free tuition for children to go to Taipei American school? That may put the total compensation to be around the same.

not enough details…
how old are you?
kids? no kids? if kids - what age? local school or private school?
what field is the job? will you have any career prospects here long term?
are you giving up on any pension benefits in the USA?
do you speak Chinese?
Will you leave in Taipei? or elsewhere?
Will your wife work? what is her earning potential?

generally speaking, 70K a year is a very nice salary for Taiwan, but wont leave you with too much if you are a family, and if you plan to go the USA annualy to visit your family.

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Where would you be moving too? You need to be sure you know what you are getting into. Real estate is very expensive in some parts of Taiwan. What you consider a small house in US will be a huge house in Taiwan. For me, some of the big changes that I had to get accustomed to were not having my own yard/fence. Feel like I lost some privacy and have to deal with neighbors being to loud and what not. Weather isn’t great in some parts. Rains far more than I’m used too. I didn’t’ even know what pm2.5 was until I got here. Adjusting/accepting the food quality was another item. Also earthquakes are pretty common here, and the constant threat of war is also somewhat worrisome.

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Thank you for the replies so far. To answer some of the questions posed to me:

-We live in Santa Fe, so not the sticks. We play just under 2k USD/mo for a modest house (I know we won’t be able to land a house in Taipei)
-100k is in addition to insurance for both my wife and myself
-the 70k Taiwanese salary includes the housing subsidy, there’s also 5k USD for relocation (which seems low)

-Me: Mid 40s
-Wife: mid 30s
-No kids
-Job is same field as I am in now (corporate learning facilitation). The Taiwanese salary is actually comparable to the regular salary in my field, I am overpaid at my current position for NM.
-I speak OK Chinese about topics I am knowledgable in and informal conversation. Taiwanese news is too fast for me.
-Live either in Taipei, New Taipei, or Taoyuan near MRT
-Wife doesn’t work in the US, but I hope will work in Taiwan. I don’t factor in her earning potential.

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Let me just add that you will also need to take other things into consideration, besides money.

Some great things about Taiwan, compared to the US, that may increase your happiness:

  • Much lower crime rates (violent crimes, theft, etc.)
  • Generally more kindness and politeness among the population
  • Generally better behaved children (more important if you have kids and wish for them to make upstanding friends). The English teachers here might disagree on this point :slight_smile:
  • Less conversations about American politics (a source of HUGE happiness for me when I moved here)
  • More environmental-conscious population, at least when it comes to recycling (if that’s important to you)
  • No gun ownership, and therefore no mass shootings
  • Being made to feel like a celebrity if you’re white (if you enjoy that sort of attention)
  • Denser urban design, which means everything is much closer, and you won’t need a car
  • Convenient stores everywhere, even if you’re hiking or camping in the middle of nowhere
  • No snow!

Of course, there are also some things about Taiwan that annoy Americans, mostly to do with the culture and the office environment if you’re not used to it.

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in that case i think that financially you will be ok.
you will be making ~2,000,000 a year.
housing: 50K a month will allow you to find a nice 2 bedroom apartment in a new building in Taipei or new Taipei. maybe not in the dead center of town, but in a good neighbourhood.
thats 600K a year.
Food, utilities, transportation,cash expenses etc: we are a family of 4 and spend about 75K a month on that, so thats 888K a year. Your expenses will be different, but i think if you use this number as a benchmark you have plenty of safety buffer.
you are left with ~500K NTD a year (~16K USD) in discretionary income you can save.

How does that compare to how much you spend and save in the USA?

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Be prepared to get more pressure from in-laws to have kids, once they are closer to your orbit. :grin:

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There are many things I love about Taiwan, but currently I would not move for the following reasons:

  • The unstable geopolitical situation. It seems China is determined to launch some sort of military operation against our small island in the next decade (and probably much sooner). Western powers are doing their best to deter this, but ultimately no one knows what will happen. Xi doesn’t seem likely to give up his ambitions though.

  • Stagnant wages. I was earning more money a decade ago than I am now. And that’s not even accounting for inflation. The salary situation here is not keeping up with the increase in housing and food costs.

  • Birth rate collapse. If you teach at a uni or high school, things might get tough over the next few years as there will be too many teachers and too few new enrolling students.

  • These are permanent annoyances, but the allergy-triggering air pollution, terrible traffic (“pedestrian hell”), and religious superstitions really get to you after a while.

Taiwan has a lot going for it, but I don’t think it’s the best choice for a move, at least not at the moment.

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This is a great post. I dont really agree with the 110 direct crossover, but it calls out the key points.

Anyway 70k USD is enough to live very comfortably and save too , as a couple. Wife can get a job if you need to bump it up. I guess she may not work though haha.

Career progression working in Taiwan is close to non existent, so I would put a time limt on this if I were you.
Your current pay is good, so that’s skewing your thinking a little, understandably so.

You don’t need to spend 50k NTD month on rent, it can be reduced by living in new taipei city if you want.

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Incompetent government services is a major annoyance to me.

Also I’m surprised banking and finance hasn’t been brought up yet :rofl:

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Overall govenrnment services here are really accessible , quick and cheap to utilise e.g. tax office NHI. But agree with the banking…

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Yeah I think so to. I more mean how no government service/agency can give you a factually correct answer the first time you ask a question.
This has caused me having to go back and forth for the same thing 3-4 times because they forget to tell me the whole story

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Without kids you will have a lot of flexibility on where you can live, more likely to find a better place.

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If it’s the same company perhaps you and wife can come for six months and stay in a small inexpensive hotel room and see how it may fit long term

You have to really love Taiwan and have strong ties to Taiwan to hack it long term

Salary sounds workable but so many factors to consider only you and wife can judge
And yes besides China what worried me living in Taiwan are the killer quake potential

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Your decision criteria (“sanity”) is not adequately specified.

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Objectively speaking, living in Taiwan on a NT$2M annual salary for a couple without kids, you have absolutely nothing to worry about in terms of finances or lifestyle. Kids’ education is usually the biggest expense in the long run, apart from housing. So, without kids you can be as free as a bird and save a ton of money.

Although it’s understandable to think a US$70K vs US$110K salary is a significant paycut, in reality the 70K salary in Taiwan is probably at least equivalent to your 110K salary in the US, if not better, once you factor in income tax and COL (though not sure if you have to pay tax to US IRS in addition).

It all comes down to how happy you are with your current life in the US. If you live in a place with rampant crime, homelessness, poverty, poor infrastructure, nothing works, etc, then moving to Taiwan is a no-brainer, period. But if you live in a paradise with perfect climate, magnificent outdoors, great food, low crime, low COL etc., then staying might be the better choice. However, as I said at the beginning, you can’t really go wrong in Taiwan with the salary you’re being offered, especially for a couple without kids.

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